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ZR1 un-tunable?

 
Old 03-07-2018, 11:58 AM
  #21  
Earl H
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Hmmm....still a buyer if it can't be tuned?
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:14 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post

Back to ROI; I wonder why the lock down?

Warranty and road laws compliancy? maybe...
GM needs to be able to prove that their ECUs are tamper resistant to modern security standards from a legal culpability standpoint.

If you listen to what GM execs (current and former - also execs from other companies as well) are saying, they envision a world where human driven cars are no longer legal for road use and transportation units in the form of self driving vehicles (which are owned by GM) provide transportation services.

Imagine what kind of legal issues GM would have if some nefarious entity were able to penetrate the security of these vehicles and systematically crash them. That makes the ignition switch debacle look like peanuts.

A reasonable defense, though, would be, "Hey, nobody in the world [had] circumvented this level of security, and these security models were considered state of the art. We did everything we could to prevent unauthorized access to our ECUs."

That's in contrast to the previous model used which would have been questionably secure in 1985. But back when all this aftermarket ECU reflashing started, GM was more concerned with leaving the door ajar enough for the aftermarket to do their thing. Now that goal is in direct conflict with the ECU security necessity.

The good news, though, if there is any here, is that if you read the patent about the ECU signing, they have designed it specifically to allow the ability to provide signing keys to third parties without having to reveal the root key. At the very least, it appears that they have given some thought to a scenario that might serve the aftermarket, though it's impossible to say if they will allow it, and if they do, under what terms.

At the very least, the era of using third party recalibration tools is at an end, though (unless somebody finds an exploit).
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:17 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Wish I had time to look into that. The implied CPU power to do the above at ECM speeds surprises me a bit and shows my age too..

Back to ROI; I wonder why the lock down?

Warranty and road laws compliancy? maybe...

But maybe GM is seeing all this modding/tuning money slushing around and wants a piece of the action..

I just finished reading a post on Corvette offering a "magical" after market air intake for track only use that coupled with the cats OEM delete takes the ZR1 to alleged 840 (or so) HP! WITHOUT the need for tuning.

I consider this an OEM "mod" play whereby the mod "option" is already built in the locked down ECM...

I can foresee the "mod" battle going upscale... with the $400 tune making place for the $4000 controller...
There's dedicated crypto accelerators in some of these newer chips. Keep in mind also that it's not doing crypto work the entire time the engine is running. It only authenticates the software when the system is reflashed, and when it boots up.

As far as why, I think you hit it on both counts. Warranty and wanting a piece of the aftermarket action. There's probably also some pressure to insure continuous emissions compliance.

I'm sure all the bros rolling coal on YouTube, and tuners who hide tunes to facilitate warranty fraud didn't help matters.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:26 AM
  #24  
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anyone getting closer to getting into the new zr1 ecm?
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:09 PM
  #25  
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We went through this with the C6 ZR1. If there’s a market for it, there’s a way around the barricades.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:13 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Zr1lsx View Post
anyone getting closer to getting into the new zr1 ecm?
I expect nothing but silence to your question.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:15 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 1985 Corvette View Post
We went through this with the C6 ZR1. If there’s a market for it, there’s a way around the barricades.
This was explained very clearly by earlier post by Jeff V. and 17A8Vette
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:28 PM
  #28  
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As a dealer, I've already heard the rumblings about this. They're aware that they built the LT5 and L5Ps like they did. They did it on purpose.

My guess is some version of bribing went on from the Federal emissions regulators who finally noticed that, news flash, the emissions from aftermarket work are MUCH over-looked. So basically they said, we'll loosen these regulations but you make it so NOBODY can get into these things. A handshake happened somewhere. This is speculation however.

What is NOT speculation is that these ECU's will not be cracked unless somebody leaks the tech from GM. And trust me, GM knows that and they're going to do their damndest to make sure it doesn't happen.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:36 PM
  #29  
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Hard for me to believe that it can't be defeated, given that countries routinely hack into much more costly hardware of other countries. The contributing factor will be, if there are enough resources (that can be acquired at a certain cost) to make it worthwhile for an organization to put a huge effort into the defeating the system.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:51 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by m3incorp View Post
Hard for me to believe that it can't be defeated, given that countries routinely hack into much more costly hardware of other countries. The contributing factor will be, if there are enough resources (that can be acquired at a certain cost) to make it worthwhile for an organization to put a huge effort into the defeating the system.
I'm sure that if the Kremlin really wanted to, they could put all their resources together and tune a ZR1.

HP Tuners, on the other hand, is more resource limited.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:09 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by range96 View Post
This was explained very clearly by earlier post by Jeff V. and 17A8Vette
And very informative posts they were. I still stand by my belief that a market for these cars will be the motivating factor to find a way around the issue. In what form that happens, we will see.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:24 PM
  #32  
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In speaking to one of the head GM engineers privately, it is because of the interwebs and hacking. The car is 4GLTE and thus can be hacked. While I agree, I think the warranty issues are also at play, it comes from a higher regard for public safety... I mean Ford has been ahead of it's time for a decade and just look at all of the ISIS Mustangs that have been hacked and plowing into crowds on the reg.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:27 PM
  #33  
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Yes, exactly.

Originally Posted by village idiot View Post
I'm sure that if the Kremlin really wanted to, they could put all their resources together and tune a ZR1.

HP Tuners, on the other hand, is more resource limited.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:10 PM
  #34  
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Default Tunable!? ;)

This baby needs weight savings! GM is saving yous from yourselves.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:24 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by johnglenntwo View Post
This baby needs weight savings! GM is saving yous from yourselves.
What the actual f**k is wrong with you?
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:06 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I mean Ford has been ahead of it's time for a decade and just look at all of the ISIS Mustangs that have been hacked and plowing into crowds on the reg.



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Old 05-16-2018, 01:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by 1985 Corvette View Post
We went through this with the C6 ZR1. If there’s a market for it, there’s a way around the barricades.
The C6 ZR1 wasn't anything special to tune than the other C6s of the time from what I remember.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:13 AM
  #38  
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Default Some tuners had that tune lean momentarily!

Like GM had no clue how it should be.
Maybe it was some of the same guys that had valves dropping out of the exhaust of a C6 ZO6. (Too much nitrous!)
Amazing anyone is surprised by this!

Last edited by johnglenntwo; 05-16-2018 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:19 AM
  #39  
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Of course someone is going to get into the ecu and tune it. Just give it time like any other unhackable ECU. If a person made it to where you couldn't get into it then another person can reverse that.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:05 AM
  #40  
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This reminds me somewhat of when C6 came out and everyone was convinced that the GPS units could be hacked to operate while driving etc. People were betting who was gonna be first to do it. Threads went on for a long time about that the until the truly frustrated folks gave up waiting and bought aftermarket units instead. Though there have been a few funky workarounds done to make things sort of work, To my knowledge, no one has done a truly successful hack to the software of those yet.
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