randyn

hcvone

There will be a tune out at some point, this is the disadvantage of getting your model early, no parts no tune, the same thing happened last year when I purchased a tts, no one had a tune for the 2017 on up, only for the 2016's and lower. So I sent my car on a 5000 mile trip, and now they offer tuning for my car.

Palantirion

- Thanks for the link to the new EPA article. I find it very interested, and potentially stillborn, if a regulatory agency could successfully legislate and end-run to regulate items outside their current effective jurisdiction. Which of course is why we have courts. I could certainly see this going back and forth through multiple cases. I could also see why it might cause larger American companies to take the safe road until it gets sorted out.

That being said it only effects certain aspects of the aftermarket industry (although setting a potentially dangerous precedent for all): Modifications to emissions controls using non-CARB-approved parts. Right? So this effects management tunes, and everything physical on the drivetrain that is pre-CAT. It is very possible, just expensive, to get CARB approval on all of these products. With BMWs items there is a higher margin but lower volume. I would expect with Corvette and Mustang parts there would be the inverse. So I would expect there to continue to be tuning options, just fewer and they would be more expensive.

I wonder, presuming the new legislation even goes into effect, if we will see a dramatic increase in the number of "body in white" cars produced. I also wonder if salvage titles might become more valuable if the legislation does not specifically take them into account.

Or this could be one of the first final nails in the coffin of racing as we have known it since the dawn of the automobile. Btw, Eskimos can still kill whales because it is a legally protected "tradition".

Mikec7z

i believe it will still be crackable with the large crypto farms that exist now, and/or a person on the inside selling the crack for x amount of dollars...

but the problem I SEE being the game changer is that they are going to be able to label the sale of this crack as "terrorism" and "assisting terrorism", in addition to what Ben linked with the epa articles ...

And thus it is going to become a HUGE liability for HP Tuners, etc, to come out PUBLICLY with the software that does contain the crack, as now they are the ones liable if someone uses the crack to do something malicious .

Kind of like selling bump stocks or the mechanisms to make guns fully automatic machine guns... HP Tuners will be labeled as an assistant to a crime.

Which, of course, causes HP tuners to simply decide to NOT release the crack, even tho, they can crack it. And that of course, sucks for us.

Hopefully I am wrong.

With all of that said, the question becomes, does the same liability exist with the piggyback systems? If so, we are really in trouble soon.

Mikec7z

corvetteforum is going to become like napster and limewire, and we are all going to be trading CPU cracks behind the scenes and the previous employees at HP tuners are going to be the kingpins to this illegal activity.

and/or

c7z are going to be the last legally upgradable vette, and thus resale should hold high

Poor-sha

CONMAX

I doubt that any car is not tunable for very long. When the C7 Z06 first came out, the same thing was said. Within about 6 months, many shops could tune it.
Remember when the federal government asked Apple for help in cracking access to iphone data. They refused and ultimately, hackers cracked it for the feds.
It may take awhile and requires demand from owners. There has never been an encryption algorithm that can't be hacked, just requires effort from skilled programmers.

ZR1Gerhardt

It is not "legislation." It is a regulation, the power of which to write rules was granted to the EPA under the various clean air acts. On the face of it, there may be a good chance they have the power to do this.

Bigjsn250

This is not regulation or law, it's a choice by GM, if it was a regulation or law every 2019 vehicle would have this encryption. 2019 ZL1- tunable, 2019 Cadillac CTSV- tunable. Hmmmm both cars have same platform as year before just like C7ZR1???. If there was some sweeping regulation or lawsuit potential don't you think Ford, Dodge etc. would be doing the the same thing? or maybe GM would do it with their other often modified vehicles? I know this, I will never buy a car I cannot tune and I bet I'm not the only person.

ZR1Gerhardt

Dude I was pointing out another person's response to the article related to the EPA interpretation of existing regulations and its power to do so. The EPA was stating how they interpret an old regulation, it said nothing about how the car manufacturers were required to respond related to tunes, nor was I stating they were required to encrypt their tunes. That probably requires a group of lawyers in a room followed by litigation.

Palantirion

- Right, that is an important distinction. However regulatory changes or changes in regulatory practice can (and I hope will) be challenged in court. My point was just that this issue is not settled or cast in stone.

ZR1Gerhardt

Correct!

Bigjsn250

BearZ06

"Don't be at all surprised to see more and more GM performance parts coming out for the ZR1 with an updated tune to match. One that only GM can sell you."

Now that's a thought!

OnPoint

Sub'd.

Rkreigh

the issue for me is HP tuners or a major company working directly with GM to get the engineering support they need and establish a contractual agreement.

something like "tuning is only to be used for racing events" blah blah legalize to allow them access to the encryption code.

short of that happening, I think smart gents will find out ways to add fuel, and we'll see how a piggy back or CR type setup (like to hear more about that!) can add the fuel properly as airflow can be increased

my first thought is that something like a megasquirt or CR fueler can be layered on top of the factory ECM (like direct port E85 even with simple nozzles) we'll see some noticeable gains as the blower has plenty of headroom

since the car is already "traction challenged" I think that a more intelligent traction control and boost by speed would be a great mod for GM to do right now

the 720 and other marques are building much more intelligence into their active handling and traction control to allow planting the available power better

that big flat torq curve sounds really great until you try and 60 ft that monster

755 hp and 715 torq are no joke and way beyond available traction already so adding more doesn't always achieve the desired result

with the big bypass throttle body on the LT5 bleeding off some boost in lower gears to allow the car to hook better might help

it sure does on the turbo cars and the LT5 has a better boost control system and bigger bypass than previous blowers

and the blower can support well over 1k hp which makes hooking just that much more fun and challenging

lots of folks are seeing "zo6 challenges" because 650 is pretty tough to hook too and spinning ain't winning

3 Z06ZR1

Even worse with all the added weight on the nose to push with no help in traction. The DCS controller is a huge traction aid to the Z06

Palantirion

- Not at all.

It depends on your context. Watch any video of a ZR1 tracking - they hook up remarkably well, even out of low speed corners. Even my Z4 MC (blown with 500hp and no aero on little 275 rears) hooks up great at anything faster than 5-10mph and is launchable from a stop with throttle modulation. There is a bottom-end build 750hp version of the S54 blown by ESS that I had thought must be undriveable on 275s...until I got used to my 500hp and realized that when tracking out of slow corners that absurd power could actually be utilized because I could get WOT at or prior-to apex with my 500hp if I was driving well. In part this is because or the smoother power delivery of a supercharger as opposed to a turbo method of FI. It gives the driver much more subtle control over throttle modulation and lets you keep the car settled and you can adjust slip angle better.

I suspect that GM's assertion that 755hp is the limit for the chassis was made primarily with an eye to the future performance goals vs exotics that will involve much more than 750hp - undoubtedly we will see a future hybrid ZR1 with 1,000+hp. Packaging alone would preclude a front-engine chassis in that scenario.

23/C8Z

Heard that this series of ECMs is just beginning. The B series has each module speaking to one another in additional encryption as well.

the 19 pickups have same ECU as the ZR as well. And that's not the tough one (which unless GM unlocks for some of these aftermarket companies they will not break into for years if ever (their speculation not mine).

Rkreigh

for sure the car hooks extremely well, but as mentioned the heavy car puts quite a demand on those rear tires and the hook from a dig can be troublesome. I think GM could do better with the traction control via a boost by speed feature which would make the car hook better in the lower gears. The new bypass is big enough to bleed off some of the low end. Certainly a good driver can modulate the throttle and get er movin but it's just not that easy with a big clutch car like this. That's one reason the 8 spd auto can get with the program a bit quicker. It's just easier to launch it.

I drive an older z06 with 800 at the tire (turbo car) and boost by speed definitely is where I hope to head to allow for more traction without compromising the big top end power. My c5 is "old school" but significantly lighter.