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McMulkin in Nashua NH does a lot of Corvette business and Mike at Chriswell Chevy in MD, I believe sells over 600 Vettes per year. Those two and Kerbeck usually post the biggest discounts.
They really aren't. They are a nice bragging right, but they're not "important". The Corvette has been and still is (and likely will be for a very long time) the most successful selling sports/GT car in the world. That's what "the entire world" should be watching.
If the ring is not that important, why would a manufacturer take the time to design a marketing plan around it to make claims on a car that they knew were not true?
By the way, ask Tadge how the parts trade in kit is coming along for the Z06 he spoke about in Carlisle of 2016... since when we do, you lock the thread.
Well said. And if you're ever in the NY area send em a message, you can rip my RS to your hearts content. You have 6 months to drive the .1 then its the .2 ..........both way more car then ill ever need, but im not passing up on the upgrade.
Lol I don’t think you’d want a kid driving a car worth $200,000+, but thank you for the offer. I think 80% of people would upgrade to a .2; the other 20% will keep the .1 and buy the .2 to match . In 40 years a pair will cross the block at Mecum Monterey with 10 Miles total, a $500,000 reserve and an $800,000 SOLD price...
It must be great to be Magnus Walker or Jerry Seinfeld.
I am a big Porsche fan and had a 2014 GT3 that I tracked. Great great car. Been having trouble finding any GT3 at MSRP (can’t justify paying ADMs). Decided to buy a ZR1 and expect to take delivery in early June. Can’t wait.
as far as ring times, I heard today that a time will be released in the near future. Not said, but I hung up thinking the time is quicker than the GT2 RS, but I could have misinterpreted the conversation. We will know soon.
Originally Posted by Quinten33
The ZR1 won't beat the GT2 RS around the Nurburgring. The GT2 RS has much greater aerodynamics, more rigidity, a much better transmission, a better driver, better weight distribution, a stiff track suspension setup, less weight, carbon sway bars and end links, freaking magnesium wheels that reduce unsprung mass, and all the wing in the world. It ran a 6:47. That's 15 seconds faster than an ACR. I don't see the ZR1 beating a 6:47.
The GT3 RS is a masterpiece of engineering and design, in my opinion. From the front fender vents to the ABS system, everything is integrated into the car to work together. The engine is something remarkable. It screams to the heavens and responds like no other. And something that can't be denied is the execution of the car, or the fit and finish. The interior is a league above the Corvette in design, and two above the Corvette in quality. The quality of the assembly process is something that few can match. I hope to drive a GT3 RS someday. It's a "VOLKSWAGEN", and IM OK WITH THAT because Lamborghinis, Audis, Bugattis, Bentleys, and Ducatis are also "Volkswagens". The 911 GT2 RS has as much in common with a Volkswagen as the Ford GT does with a Fiesta.
The ZR1 will beat 918, Adventador SV, Viper ACR, and more. That's a feat that very few cars can accomplish, especially some $125,000 assembly-line-built-in-Kentucky Grand Tourer
Last edited by AZ Car Guy; 04-17-2018 at 11:35 PM.
If the ring is not that important, why would a manufacturer take the time to design a marketing plan around it to make claims on a car that they knew were not true?
By the way, ask Tadge how the parts trade in kit is coming along for the Z06 he spoke about in Carlisle of 2016... since when we do, you lock the thread.
Let's show AC SATCO we can do better than this..
If you have ever will have a chance or had a chance to visit the ring you will notice it is not a "marketing" track. It is first a sports and entertainment track (for us) and a developmental track for the various manufacturers.
If you tour the facilities or watch a you tube video you will see all different manufacturers development centers spread around the compound. Chevrolet/GM is there as well although they have been ramping down since Chevrolet pulled out of Europe.
The mission of the developments centers is not to fork out record laps.
The most important mission of the Nurb development centers is to evaluate competing car components products. A Brembo, a Bosh, a Lear, literally goes around "knocking doors" saying "here is my latest...hit the track and give it a try".
Lap records attempts are a by-product marketing opportunity efforts. They are "best effort" with budget at hand.
The marketing budget is a function of each manufacturer sales model.
In this regard 911 and Corvette are at the opposite poles of the marketing spectrum:
911s (and Porsches is general) employ the export sales model. It's a must because they could not "survive" selling 4/8K 911s per year in Germany.
Export sales models demand higher marketing budgets to promote your product world-wide.
Corvettes employs predominantly the domestic sales model and export is a case by case (or no case - see no ZR1 for Europe) model. This means marketing budget "to look good" is not as important as for the export model.
So to your "loaded and provocative" question why the Nurb...
Simple - they are there anyway - IF IT DOES NOT BREAK THE BANK.. why not... Like Tadge says..."not a priority" which is understandable...
Lol I don’t think you’d want a kid driving a car worth $200,000+, but thank you for the offer. I think 80% of people would upgrade to a .2; the other 20% will keep the .1 and buy the .2 to match . In 40 years a pair will cross the block at Mecum Monterey with 10 Miles total, a $500,000 reserve and an $800,000 SOLD price...
It must be great to be Magnus Walker or Jerry Seinfeld.
Welcome to the forum, by the way.
I wish i had that kind of cheese, id buy two of everything, but unlike Seinfeld (Magnus isn't in the same stratosphere) i have very few cars, and drive them all. My RS has plenty of miles and the number will go up till the new one arrives.
Everyone has their go to dealers. I happen to like Corvette Sales Manager Dave Salvatore and my Sales Person Ronald Michael, Jr at Kerbeck. They might have something for you?
What are you going to use the car for?
If you are going to take it to the track you may want to wait until Poorsha get's his and see what falls off of it first!!
He's downright quick with pace in his C7Z06 comparable to the very fastest guys on Rennlist. Going to be something to see in his ZR1.
I will check them out, and ask for your guy, thanks
If you have ever will have a chance or had a chance to visit the ring you will notice it is not a "marketing" track. It is first a sports and entertainment track (for us) and a developmental track for the various manufacturers.
If you tour the facilities or watch a you tube video you will see all different manufacturers development centers spread around the compound. Chevrolet/GM is there as well although they have been ramping down since Chevrolet pulled out of Europe.
The mission of the developments centers is not to fork out record laps.
The most important mission of the Nurb development centers is to evaluate competing car components products. A Brembo, a Bosh, a Lear, literally goes around "knocking doors" saying "here is my latest...hit the track and give it a try".
Lap records attempts are a by-product marketing opportunity efforts. They are "best effort" with budget at hand.
The marketing budget is a function of each manufacturer sales model.
In this regard 911 and Corvette are at the opposite poles of the marketing spectrum:
911s (and Porsches is general) employ the export sales model. It's a must because they could not "survive" selling 4/8K 911s per year in Germany.
Export sales models demand higher marketing budgets to promote your product world-wide.
Corvettes employs predominantly the domestic sales model and export is a case by case (or no case - see no ZR1 for Europe) model. This means marketing budget "to look good" is not as important as for the export model.
So to your "loaded and provocative" question why the Nurb...
Simple - they are there anyway - IF IT DOES NOT BREAK THE BANK.. why not... Like Tadge says..."not a priority" which is understandable...
He has plenty of C7 sales without it...
These are fair and reasonable points and I'd love for majority of the discussion on this forum to be resemble such. So thank you for putting the effort in making the conversation better!
As a track enthusiast, while the ring times are a decent gauge for pecking order purposes, what I try to understand is how a car holds up to sustained peak performance by the the end of a lap. The length of the track puts a lot of stress on the tires, cooling performance and overall quality of a vehicle.
In my magical world, I'd love to see 3 consecutive ring laps without interruption along with telemetry data around temps, tire pressures, pad wear and so on. *THOSE* things are what matter at the end of the day.
The lap times are important but if you are a 1 lap pony, perfect example being the hybrid super cars! then you're not really of much interest to me as someone who likes pushing for a full session when possible.
If you have ever will have a chance or had a chance to visit the ring you will notice it is not a "marketing" track. It is first a sports and entertainment track (for us) and a developmental track for the various manufacturers.
If you tour the facilities or watch a you tube video you will see all different manufacturers development centers spread around the compound. Chevrolet/GM is there as well although they have been ramping down since Chevrolet pulled out of Europe.
The mission of the developments centers is not to fork out record laps.
The most important mission of the Nurb development centers is to evaluate competing car components products. A Brembo, a Bosh, a Lear, literally goes around "knocking doors" saying "here is my latest...hit the track and give it a try".
Lap records attempts are a by-product marketing opportunity efforts. They are "best effort" with budget at hand.
The marketing budget is a function of each manufacturer sales model.
In this regard 911 and Corvette are at the opposite poles of the marketing spectrum:
911s (and Porsches is general) employ the export sales model. It's a must because they could not "survive" selling 4/8K 911s per year in Germany.
Export sales models demand higher marketing budgets to promote your product world-wide.
Corvettes employs predominantly the domestic sales model and export is a case by case (or no case - see no ZR1 for Europe) model. This means marketing budget "to look good" is not as important as for the export model.
So to your "loaded and provocative" question why the Nurb...
Simple - they are there anyway - IF IT DOES NOT BREAK THE BANK.. why not... Like Tadge says..."not a priority" which is understandable...
At the current levels of power, braking and tire technology, the way to get lap times down will be thru weight reduction. Weight reduction allows a car to break later, turn in at a higher speed and exit a turn at a high speed, all which translates into lower laps times. The lap numbers of ZL1 Le , z06, ZR1 will all be in the ranges as shown regardless of driver ( if the driver is skilled) due to the weight of the cars at this time. I have race Miata's, lotus, Panoz cars , corvettes, porches,etc. This is the physics of lap times and track speed. You could put a 1000 hp engine in a car and not gain anything but weight.
At the current levels of power, braking and tire technology, the way to get lap times down will be thru weight reduction.
You're forgetting aero, suspension tuning, and chassis tuning (which includes things like PTM). These are areas that GM has excelled in with the Corvette. Sometimes you just can't remove weight.
At the Corvette racing dinner in Monterey last September, Tadge was asked about making a "GT3-like Corvette". His answer was basically what I've been telling folks all along: they'd love to do it, and they can do it (from an architecture and tech perspective). The problem is there's not enough of a market for it. They simply won't sell enough of those cars to even remotely justify the work involved in stripping the car down to its bare bones, removing lots of the creature comforts, etc.
The mass in the Corvette is there for a reason: people want it. They want the creature comforts. They want the gobs of power from the supercharged mills. They want the storage and passenger space.
And they want the car to stay affordable.
This is the physics of lap times and track speed. You could put a 1000 hp engine in a car and not gain anything but weight.
It's not that simple and it never is. The layman sees the new ZR1 and they focus on the 755HP engine. The track dog looks at the ZR1 and sees: the wing, front splitter, and other aero tricks.
LS3FORME and JVP are both on point.... weight is key and crucial (obviously with the components JVP mentioned) however the true bread & butter Corvette buyer will NEVER take it to the track.... heck one stone chip and they'd go apeshyt.
The majority of Corvette clients whether a base Stingray or a Z06/ZR1 to a C8 midengine are those who want all the creature comforts, all the leather/alcantara/stitching options, all the multicolor choices, all the graphics/stripes/livery, and all the bragging rights of huge power & torque.... but will never see regular open road bahnstorming yet alone periodic road course duty.
So GM's recipe will be to cater to the masses of benchtop racing and cars & coffee crowds. I'd say 90%.... the ones that flog it on the 1/4 or on the road courses are mostly the ones we see active in the forums. That's easily <10% of all Corvette buyers.
People will regret not buying a ZR1, especially after seeing it flying by on the road or on the track. The Corvette team deserves a lot more respect than people give them. They knocked it right out of the park with the ZR1.
People will regret not buying a ZR1, especially after seeing it flying by on the road or on the track. The Corvette team deserves a lot more respect than people give them. They knocked it right out of the park with the ZR1.
Agreed, the C7 platform has been nothing but exceptional, give or take a few hiccups with the Z06. I believe those issues were addressed by now, could be wrong. What's not to love if you fix the Z06 issues and make it even better, with the ZR1??
I agree it's still a good platform. Hopefully it won't have any major issues especially on the track. We'll see.... no one knows for sure here. Personally, I wouldn't jump on buying the ZR1 at msrp (nor over) early in the game. I did it on my C7 Z06 (very early VIN) and the reliability wasn't very good. Plus the fact that 12+ mos after it's out in the market, we will see ZR1s below msrp... like the Z06 was, like the C6 ZR1 was.... so IMHO I'd wait. They will depreciate in no time.
Well put sir. Never thought about the domestic vs export model before.
Considering the number of Porsches they export, they absolutely need to prove themselves at the Ring. Corvettes, Vipers not at all as 99% of their buyers consume those cars domestically.
Originally Posted by Telepierre
Let's show AC SATCO we can do better than this..
If you have ever will have a chance or had a chance to visit the ring you will notice it is not a "marketing" track. It is first a sports and entertainment track (for us) and a developmental track for the various manufacturers.
If you tour the facilities or watch a you tube video you will see all different manufacturers development centers spread around the compound. Chevrolet/GM is there as well although they have been ramping down since Chevrolet pulled out of Europe.
The mission of the developments centers is not to fork out record laps.
The most important mission of the Nurb development centers is to evaluate competing car components products. A Brembo, a Bosh, a Lear, literally goes around "knocking doors" saying "here is my latest...hit the track and give it a try".
Lap records attempts are a by-product marketing opportunity efforts. They are "best effort" with budget at hand.
The marketing budget is a function of each manufacturer sales model.
In this regard 911 and Corvette are at the opposite poles of the marketing spectrum:
911s (and Porsches is general) employ the export sales model. It's a must because they could not "survive" selling 4/8K 911s per year in Germany.
Export sales models demand higher marketing budgets to promote your product world-wide.
Corvettes employs predominantly the domestic sales model and export is a case by case (or no case - see no ZR1 for Europe) model. This means marketing budget "to look good" is not as important as for the export model.
So to your "loaded and provocative" question why the Nurb...
Simple - they are there anyway - IF IT DOES NOT BREAK THE BANK.. why not... Like Tadge says..."not a priority" which is understandable...
He has plenty of C7 sales without it...
Last edited by Checkmate1; 04-18-2018 at 09:59 AM.
You're forgetting aero, suspension tuning, and chassis tuning (which includes things like PTM). These are areas that GM has excelled in with the Corvette. Sometimes you just can't remove weight.
At the Corvette racing dinner in Monterey last September, Tadge was asked about making a "GT3-like Corvette". His answer was basically what I've been telling folks all along: they'd love to do it, and they can do it (from an architecture and tech perspective). The problem is there's not enough of a market for it. They simply won't sell enough of those cars to even remotely justify the work involved in stripping the car down to its bare bones, removing lots of the creature comforts, etc.
The mass in the Corvette is there for a reason: people want it. They want the creature comforts. They want the gobs of power from the supercharged mills. They want the storage and passenger space.
And they want the car to stay affordable.
It's not that simple and it never is. The layman sees the new ZR1 and they focus on the 755HP engine. The track dog looks at the ZR1 and sees: the wing, front splitter, and other aero tricks.
A large part of that is not fostering the community.
Porsche has put time and effort into winning over the track guys who are now addicted to the GT3/RS type models.
So if GM never starts putting the effort in, it's easy to fall back to their argument.
These are fair and reasonable points and I'd love for majority of the discussion on this forum to be resemble such. So thank you for putting the effort in making the conversation better!
As a track enthusiast, while the ring times are a decent gauge for pecking order purposes, what I try to understand is how a car holds up to sustained peak performance by the the end of a lap. The length of the track puts a lot of stress on the tires, cooling performance and overall quality of a vehicle.
In my magical world, I'd love to see 3 consecutive ring laps without interruption along with telemetry data around temps, tire pressures, pad wear and so on. *THOSE* things are what matter at the end of the day.
The lap times are important but if you are a 1 lap pony, perfect example being the hybrid super cars! then you're not really of much interest to me as someone who likes pushing for a full session when possible.
Well said. Just give me a car that can run for a 30 minute session on a hot day, and the company/car has my respect. No excuses about brakes, engine, transmission etc. Everything else is a bench racing contest that is completely meaningless to me.
A large part of that is not fostering the community.
They're fostering the community that they need to foster from a business perspective though. You need to stop looking at it as myopically as you are. There are significantly more non-track rats than there are track rats. This is the market GM has to cater to, like it or not.
Porsche has put time and effort into winning over the track guys who are now addicted to the GT3/RS type models.
Porsche isn't "winning over track guys". They're catering to an existing (very small, mind you) market of guys and gals that were going to buy a Porsche anyway. These are well-healed folks that can afford the ridiculous price tag for the GT3/RS; a price that nearly no one in the Corvette world would pay.
Read that carefully: some would pay it. But not enough would to justify the work involved.
So if GM never starts putting the effort in, it's easy to fall back to their argument.
I often find it amusing how many folks who aren't part of the engineering team seem to think they know more than the folks who are on the engineering team. Such is the case here. Don't think for a moment that they haven't done the homework involved in this idea. They have. Their homework is far more thorough than the "professionals" here who are just throwing out ideas (along with slings and arrows). Said homework has brought them to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort.
04-17-2018, 09:18 PM
since when we do, you lock the thread.
. In 40 years a pair will cross the block at Mecum Monterey with 10 Miles total, a $500,000 reserve and an $800,000 SOLD price...
