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I suspect that is a fully gutted C6Z with as much aero as he could get on it too. Oh, and I'm certain he's a better driver. Jim Mero did a 1:55.95 on VIR Full in a C7 Z06 with the new MR update and that was on Cup 2 tires.
I don't think it's unrealistic to think the ZR1 will shave 2 seconds off that time given they shaved 2.5s off the grand time without really trying.
One correction Gil's best is a 1:54.5 not a 1:53. The 1:53 was a TT1 Porsche driven by Dez White. Gil's car is lightened and has full aero but has ~140 rwhp less than the new ZR1. I am pretty sure the ZR1 will have to run TTU as it power to weight ratio won't fit into TT1.
I concede that the ZR1 should be able to best the 1:54 but this is a good example for the weight discussion as this car is probably ~500lb less than the ZR1 with much less hp but similar aero.
One correction Gil's best is a 1:54.5 not a 1:53. The 1:53 was a TT1 Porsche driven by Dez White. Gil's car is lightened and has full aero but has ~140 rwhp less than the new ZR1. I am pretty sure the ZR1 will have to run TTU as it power to weight ratio won't fit into TT1.
I concede that the ZR1 should be able to best the 1:54 but this is a good example for the weight discussion as this car is probably ~500lb less than the ZR1 with much less hp but similar aero.
Dez is fast and knows the 996tt platform well, has quite a few track records in TT1
Just ran the ruff #s the one dyno I've seen a a ZR1 was 668rwhp. So with Dot tire it would be very close to TT1 depending on how chubby the driver is.
I hate to say it but I really feel like the c6ZR1 is a better performing car then the c7Z as far as drag racing goes. Something about that car, when I drove the c6 it felt extremely fast.
I hate to say it but I really feel like the c6ZR1 is a better performing car then the c7Z as far as drag racing goes. Something about that car, when I drove the c6 it felt extremely fast.
All pigs! Birkin is around 1,000 lbs/ no driver, 200 hp at the crank.
That's taking it too far for me. I mean, why not just buy a motorcycle that costs less, is street legal, weighs 440#, makes 190 rwhp, and is 12 seconds a lap faster, all for about $7K on the used market?
I spent some time at the track in a an old Lotus Elixe (or something) and the owner told me it weighed 1900#. On this small tight track (Harris Hill) it wa really the perfect car and it felt so much different (better!) than my nicely set up C6. However, it was also a rattly POS with cheap plastic straps to close the doors, a piece of fabric to keep the doors from opening too far, absolutely no safety protection and so on.
My point is, I'm willing to compromise, but not that much.
I've been shopping a bit and if a Miata can be made to safely track with 250 rwhp, that's really a winner of a car imo. It isn't that easy to do however. l think a NA C7GS is probably in the cards for me as an all around street car/ track weapon. we'll see.
Dez is fast and knows the 996tt platform well, has quite a few track records in TT1
Just ran the ruff #s the one dyno I've seen a a ZR1 was 668rwhp. So with Dot tire it would be very close to TT1 depending on how chubby the driver is.
I have a TT1 C6 Z06 and a NASA Time Trial license. A C7ZR1 will not fit into TT1 without significant detuning. The min weight/hp ratio for a TT1 car is 6:1 and then there is a small adjustment made for heavier cars. For a car that weighs between 3600 to 3750 lbs it is 6.4/1. The min weight/hp for a TT1 car that weighs between 3750 to 3900 lbs is 6.5/1. Competition weight includes driver and should be measured without fuel in case you come in dry.
NASA uses an average calculation for determining horsepower. One could also choose to just use the peak and then not deal with the average. You take the 5 highest readings from peak + peak in 50 rpm increments and then average them (so 6 readings). If it comes in around 650 average then the min competition weight of the ZR1 would need to be 4160 lbs.
Or another way is to look at the weight first. If the min competition weight is declared to be lets say 3800lbs then a car can not have more than 584 whp average across the 6 highest data points taken from 16 data points off peak in 50 rpm increments. And I can tell you with certainty that the ZR1 will vastly exceed this. And if you use the ZR1 peak hp then it will have to weigh 4200lbs+ to fit inside TT1.
In stock trim the ZR1 is a TTU car and with a good driver will beat a TT1 Z06. Anyone claiming otherwise doesn't understand how the calculations work (or doesn't like to admit they are not as quick).
Here is my TT1 Z06. I declare my min competition weight to be 3350lbs. This includes me in the car and I have 100lbs of ballast added. My average is 560rwhp (car is detuned) to meet my class weight/hp.
That's taking it too far for me. I mean, why not just buy a motorcycle that costs less, is street legal, weighs 440#, makes 190 rwhp, and is 12 seconds a lap faster, all for about $7K on the used market?
I spent some time at the track in a an old Lotus Elixe (or something) and the owner told me it weighed 1900#. On this small tight track (Harris Hill) it wa really the perfect car and it felt so much different (better!) than my nicely set up C6. However, it was also a rattly POS with cheap plastic straps to close the doors, a piece of fabric to keep the doors from opening too far, absolutely no safety protection and so on.
My point is, I'm willing to compromise, but not that much.
I've been shopping a bit and if a Miata can be made to safely track with 250 rwhp, that's really a winner of a car imo. It isn't that easy to do however. l think a NA C7GS is probably in the cards for me as an all around street car/ track weapon. we'll see.
It is kinda like a motorcycle with four wheels. No windscreen, no fenders but street legal in Texas.
I have a TT1 C6 Z06 and a NASA Time Trial license. A C7ZR1 will not fit into TT1 without significant detuning. The min weight/hp ratio for a TT1 car is 6:1 and then there is a small adjustment made for heavier cars. For a car that weighs between 3600 to 3750 lbs it is 6.4/1. The min weight/hp for a TT1 car that weighs between 3750 to 3900 lbs is 6.5/1. Competition weight includes driver and should be measured without fuel in case you come in dry.
NASA uses an average calculation for determining horsepower. One could also choose to just use the peak and then not deal with the average. You take the 5 highest readings from peak + peak in 50 rpm increments and then average them (so 6 readings). If it comes in around 650 average then the min competition weight of the ZR1 would need to be 4160 lbs.
Or another way is to look at the weight first. If the min competition weight is declared to be lets say 3800lbs then a car can not have more than 584 whp average across the 6 highest data points taken from 16 data points off peak in 50 rpm increments. And I can tell you with certainty that the ZR1 will vastly exceed this. And if you use the ZR1 peak hp then it will have to weigh 4200lbs+ to fit inside TT1.
In stock trim the ZR1 is a TTU car and with a good driver will beat a TT1 Z06. Anyone claiming otherwise doesn't understand how the calculations work (or doesn't like to admit they are not as quick).
Here is my TT1 Z06. I declare my min competition weight to be 3350lbs. This includes me in the car and I have 100lbs of ballast added. My average is 560rwhp (car is detuned) to meet my class weight/hp.
I have a NASA competition license also and have won the championship in my region. I understand how it works, under the old rules at 5.5 it would fit, new rules I just said it would be close running ruff #s. See you at COTA!
"Better have your game together, TTU is no joke. If you think showing up with a Viper and mediocre driving skills you'd better get some lesson. Porsche Cup cars are running TTU which I think is garbage, but nonetheless they are there along with some serious hardware in the form of a corvette.
Here's a good example of what's running in TTU. Better bring your A game, this car will likely be at Nationals. More DF than the ACR, 454 CI motor,620+ whp and everything else you can have."
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 04-12-2018 at 10:26 PM.
They are heavy piggies, but they don't feel like it when driving. Road course, which is what the ZR1 is designed to be good at, isn't effected as much by weight as auto cross. I doubt the ZR1 will make a good auto cross car in stock trim.
Heavy piggy? Maybe, but my former Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG weighed 4370 pounds, making the Corvette seem remarkably light. Although that Mercedes was an unreliable, absurdly expensive to frequently repair piece of garbage masquerading as a car, it did go 0-60 in 4.1 seconds, with a top speed of 202 mph before the poorly designed hydraulic suspension blew out again.
That's taking it too far for me. I mean, why not just buy a motorcycle that costs less, is street legal, weighs 440#, makes 190 rwhp, and is 12 seconds a lap faster, all for about $7K on the used market?
I spent some time at the track in a an old Lotus Elixe (or something) and the owner told me it weighed 1900#. On this small tight track (Harris Hill) it wa really the perfect car and it felt so much different (better!) than my nicely set up C6. However, it was also a rattly POS with cheap plastic straps to close the doors, a piece of fabric to keep the doors from opening too far, absolutely no safety protection and so on.
My point is, I'm willing to compromise, but not that much.
I've been shopping a bit and if a Miata can be made to safely track with 250 rwhp, that's really a winner of a car imo. It isn't that easy to do however. l think a NA C7GS is probably in the cards for me as an all around street car/ track weapon. we'll see.
any time I see a Miata with a v8 or turbo it's always breaking ****.
Just get a spec boxter.
Would I like a lighter car that was easier on consumables? Sure. Do I think GM did a good job of balancing comfort with an absolute killer track car? Definitely!
As far as overheating the tires is concerned, that is definitely an issue with street tires. However, the Pirelli DH seem to hold up well lap after lap and wear like iron.
I enjoy the direct comparisons to the McLarens but, those cars cost what, 2-4x as much?
Would anyone in their right mind take a McLaren on a cross country trip with limited parts availability and dealer support? Leave it outside at dinner? Track it, understanding that your auto insurance doesn't cover it when at the track?
I seem to be on a path in my life where I will be able to afford some amazing cars in my life in the future, but practicality and common sense still reigns supreme for me.
I enjoy the direct comparisons to the McLarens but, those cars cost what, 2-4x as much?
Would anyone in their right mind take a McLaren on a cross country trip with limited parts availability and dealer support? Leave it outside at dinner? Track it, understanding that your auto insurance doesn't cover it when at the track?
I seem to be on a path in my life where I will be able to afford some amazing cars in my life in the future, but practicality and common sense still reigns supreme for me.
I would be interested to know how many track hours that motor has in it.
Hence, the argument for!
https://youtu.be/U3tk_V_KTSk
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 04-14-2018 at 12:28 PM.
04-12-2018, 10:13 AM
