Which to get - A8 or M7?
04-20-2018, 09:55 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
-If you are getting the car (like I am) specifically to interract with it and enjoy the driving experience, then M7.
-If you are getting the car to enjoy its performance first and driving connection second, then A8.
-If you want a rarer car, M7. This will likely be the very last manual front-engine (IE: true) Corvette ever built. Possibly the last manual Corvette as there are rumors the C8 will be auto only. In fact, the C7 ZR1 is likely to be the very last high performance front-engined sports car ever built. The only other two (which are not high performance) on sale now are the MX-5 and BRZ.
Last edited by Palantirion; 04-20-2018 at 09:56 PM.
04-20-2018, 11:04 PM
#23
Team Owner
04-20-2018, 11:17 PM
#24
Racer
Member Since: Nov 2017
Location: Wentzville MO & Port Charlotte, FL
Posts: 408
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It's not a strength issue. It's your joints. My old man will be 69 this year and he has a hard time kneeling down and getting back up due to little to no cartilage in his knees anymore just becomes to painful. It's just something that happens as you get older, just like a car, parts of your body get worn out. That much back and forth movement can really put a hurting on someone with little to know cartilage in their knees. I'll be 40 this year and notice that I don't pop up and down like I could even 10 years ago, nothing painful or anything yet just takes a second longer.
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XpatVetteLover (04-21-2018)
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Mopar Jimmy (04-23-2018)
04-21-2018, 02:13 PM
#26
It's not a strength issue. It's your joints. My old man will be 69 this year and he has a hard time kneeling down and getting back up due to little to no cartilage in his knees anymore just becomes to painful. It's just something that happens as you get older, just like a car, parts of your body get worn out. That much back and forth movement can really put a hurting on someone with little to know cartilage in their knees. I'll be 40 this year and notice that I don't pop up and down like I could even 10 years ago, nothing painful or anything yet just takes a second longer.
Stop being ignorant about your health.
Last edited by XpatVetteLover; 04-21-2018 at 02:13 PM.
04-21-2018, 03:32 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Yep, your joints. What good are muscles without joint health to push down? As we age out joints naturally get weaker. Ankle, knees, hips. This reason alone is why Automatics are the way to go for folks at 50 or beyond. Try pushing a clutch pedal when you have bad ankles, knees or hips.
Stop being ignorant about your health.
Stop being ignorant about your health.
Also, if you are willing to do this, cut out all processed grains. The inflamatory effect in the intestines of eating modern cultivated wheat (and corn in my experience) can greatly exagerate joint discomfort as the inflamation affects the whoile body via stressing the immune system. Effects from diet change can be noticeable within a few days-to-weeks, depending on how sensitive and observant you are. No judgement there, it's just that every body's different.
Between being fat and doing intensive martial arts (throughout my 30s) without a lifetime of athletic tendon conditioning I have learned a lot about recovery options. A good chiropracter can be incredibly effective. As can a good acupuncturist. The former works directly on the mechanical interactions of the joints, which also effects surrounding tissues. The latter stimulates tissues via the nervous system to alter the stress placed on joints from muscle groups. My chiro has fixed many things for me over the years and I go to him periodically just for routine maintenance - like an tune up - just making sure everthing is in correct allignment. My acupuncturist saved my butt - fixed my sudden-onset plantar fascitis in less than 6x 1/2 hour appointments. Think of it like ctrl-atl-del for a Windows program that is "not responding". That was my calf muscles, they just wouldn't ever relax and constantly strained my achillies. I couldn't even stretch them properly because they were just too tight. But stick some needles in there with a little mild current and whoosh - the muscles relax. A few repetitions were necessary to reprogram them to a new baseline. Been facitis-free ever since.
Most recently I screwed up my knees working in my attic, and as a load-shifting side-effect of the previous plantar facitis, and neither my chiro or acupuncturist were quite able to directly attack the source of the problem. Both made improvements, but symptoms would slowly return. I was refered by a friend to a Rolfer.
Rolfing is, now IMO, the single most important and overlooked medical approach to general body health. Go google it to learn more, but I would summarize it as a methodology of studying and manipulating the connective tissue throughout the body so as to tune it to a physical balance - not unlike, say, tuning a V8 with eight single barrel carbs. If any single one is not in tune the whole engine suffers a performance loss and unbalanced stress. If the Rolfer is good it doesn't hurt any more than a regular massage. It's very very slow steady pressure that breaks up binding within connective tissue (fascia) where it is bound in a way that detrimentally stiffens a part of the body. That stiffness, which we often ignore because it is chronic and we get used to it, causes constant strain on joints by over-tensioning ligaments and tendons. Once the fascia is freed up the strain on the tendons goes away, then their inflammation reduces and they reduce pressure on the joint, then the joint pain (caused by its inflammation) disappears. Best of all, the effect is NOT temporary. It's basically a permenent fix unless you severely re-strain the muscle or go through years of continued normal-life misuse.
In my case my knee problems were fixed within 4, maybe 5, weekly visits and stayed great until I restrained them a couple weeks ago because of two hours of trampolining with my son. I knew that was unwise, given my weight and lack of conditioning, but I made a promise. The good news is that my knees, after being specifically targeted for abuse, are not as bad now as they had been in the past just from standing around on concrete at cars shows. I have a Rolfing appointment this coming Tuesday and I'm really looking forward to it.
I know the preceeding was long winded. But most people I talk to don't really know there are so many options to treat their pains.
In short, devote attention to maintaining your body like you would your Vette, and you will live longer and more comfortably to enjoy your Vette.
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XpatVetteLover (04-21-2018)
04-21-2018, 03:48 PM
#28
Team Owner
Yep, your joints. What good are muscles without joint health to push down? As we age out joints naturally get weaker. Ankle, knees, hips. This reason alone is why Automatics are the way to go for folks at 50 or beyond. Try pushing a clutch pedal when you have bad ankles, knees or hips.
Stop being ignorant about your health.
Stop being ignorant about your health.
Not all of us have joints issues. Past 50 here and run almost daily. Mow a half acre twice week with a push mover. No joint issues and the A8 has been sitting because the M7 is just more fun to drive. The Z06 doesn't feel like it is as much sports car with the A8.
04-21-2018, 04:05 PM
#29
Drifting
If you can 'shift' get the manual for the Road Course.
If you're not great at shifting, the A8 is going to be just fine at the road course, and quicker at the drag strip.
Best Regards,
Dave
If you're not great at shifting, the A8 is going to be just fine at the road course, and quicker at the drag strip.
Best Regards,
Dave
Last edited by Dave Schotz; 04-21-2018 at 04:05 PM.
04-21-2018, 08:42 PM
#30
You are kidding right? Not all of us have joints issues. Past 50 here and run almost daily. Mow a half acre twice week with a push mover. No joint issues and the A8 has been sitting because the M7 is just more fun to drive. The Z06 doesn't feel like it is as much sports car with the A8.
04-21-2018, 08:47 PM
#31
Excellent joint information. Thanks for taking the time.
-Definitely an important point. But while joints get worn with time and use there is a lot we can do to keep them in as good of condition as possible. Vitamines like glucosamine are a no-brainer, but don't overlook the possibility of simply losing weight. Tough, particularly for me as I love food, but it's probably the #1 thing to do to lower stress on knees and ankles. And even 10-15lbs of loss produces a very noticeable result. I'm 44, lost 20lbs late last year (down to 260) and my joint inflammation has reduced noticeably. My goal is another 20, but to be honest I feel so much better now that it's hard to motivate myself not to eat what I want. Still, gotta do it, I know it will be worth it.
Also, if you are willing to do this, cut out all processed grains. The inflamatory effect in the intestines of eating modern cultivated wheat (and corn in my experience) can greatly exagerate joint discomfort as the inflamation affects the whoile body via stressing the immune system. Effects from diet change can be noticeable within a few days-to-weeks, depending on how sensitive and observant you are. No judgement there, it's just that every body's different.
Between being fat and doing intensive martial arts (throughout my 30s) without a lifetime of athletic tendon conditioning I have learned a lot about recovery options. A good chiropracter can be incredibly effective. As can a good acupuncturist. The former works directly on the mechanical interactions of the joints, which also effects surrounding tissues. The latter stimulates tissues via the nervous system to alter the stress placed on joints from muscle groups. My chiro has fixed many things for me over the years and I go to him periodically just for routine maintenance - like an tune up - just making sure everthing is in correct allignment. My acupuncturist saved my butt - fixed my sudden-onset plantar fascitis in less than 6x 1/2 hour appointments. Think of it like ctrl-atl-del for a Windows program that is "not responding". That was my calf muscles, they just wouldn't ever relax and constantly strained my achillies. I couldn't even stretch them properly because they were just too tight. But stick some needles in there with a little mild current and whoosh - the muscles relax. A few repetitions were necessary to reprogram them to a new baseline. Been facitis-free ever since.
Most recently I screwed up my knees working in my attic, and as a load-shifting side-effect of the previous plantar facitis, and neither my chiro or acupuncturist were quite able to directly attack the source of the problem. Both made improvements, but symptoms would slowly return. I was refered by a friend to a Rolfer.
Rolfing is, now IMO, the single most important and overlooked medical approach to general body health. Go google it to learn more, but I would summarize it as a methodology of studying and manipulating the connective tissue throughout the body so as to tune it to a physical balance - not unlike, say, tuning a V8 with eight single barrel carbs. If any single one is not in tune the whole engine suffers a performance loss and unbalanced stress. If the Rolfer is good it doesn't hurt any more than a regular massage. It's very very slow steady pressure that breaks up binding within connective tissue (fascia) where it is bound in a way that detrimentally stiffens a part of the body. That stiffness, which we often ignore because it is chronic and we get used to it, causes constant strain on joints by over-tensioning ligaments and tendons. Once the fascia is freed up the strain on the tendons goes away, then their inflammation reduces and they reduce pressure on the joint, then the joint pain (caused by its inflammation) disappears. Best of all, the effect is NOT temporary. It's basically a permenent fix unless you severely re-strain the muscle or go through years of continued normal-life misuse.
In my case my knee problems were fixed within 4, maybe 5, weekly visits and stayed great until I restrained them a couple weeks ago because of two hours of trampolining with my son. I knew that was unwise, given my weight and lack of conditioning, but I made a promise. The good news is that my knees, after being specifically targeted for abuse, are not as bad now as they had been in the past just from standing around on concrete at cars shows. I have a Rolfing appointment this coming Tuesday and I'm really looking forward to it.
I know the preceeding was long winded. But most people I talk to don't really know there are so many options to treat their pains.
In short, devote attention to maintaining your body like you would your Vette, and you will live longer and more comfortably to enjoy your Vette.
Also, if you are willing to do this, cut out all processed grains. The inflamatory effect in the intestines of eating modern cultivated wheat (and corn in my experience) can greatly exagerate joint discomfort as the inflamation affects the whoile body via stressing the immune system. Effects from diet change can be noticeable within a few days-to-weeks, depending on how sensitive and observant you are. No judgement there, it's just that every body's different.
Between being fat and doing intensive martial arts (throughout my 30s) without a lifetime of athletic tendon conditioning I have learned a lot about recovery options. A good chiropracter can be incredibly effective. As can a good acupuncturist. The former works directly on the mechanical interactions of the joints, which also effects surrounding tissues. The latter stimulates tissues via the nervous system to alter the stress placed on joints from muscle groups. My chiro has fixed many things for me over the years and I go to him periodically just for routine maintenance - like an tune up - just making sure everthing is in correct allignment. My acupuncturist saved my butt - fixed my sudden-onset plantar fascitis in less than 6x 1/2 hour appointments. Think of it like ctrl-atl-del for a Windows program that is "not responding". That was my calf muscles, they just wouldn't ever relax and constantly strained my achillies. I couldn't even stretch them properly because they were just too tight. But stick some needles in there with a little mild current and whoosh - the muscles relax. A few repetitions were necessary to reprogram them to a new baseline. Been facitis-free ever since.
Most recently I screwed up my knees working in my attic, and as a load-shifting side-effect of the previous plantar facitis, and neither my chiro or acupuncturist were quite able to directly attack the source of the problem. Both made improvements, but symptoms would slowly return. I was refered by a friend to a Rolfer.
Rolfing is, now IMO, the single most important and overlooked medical approach to general body health. Go google it to learn more, but I would summarize it as a methodology of studying and manipulating the connective tissue throughout the body so as to tune it to a physical balance - not unlike, say, tuning a V8 with eight single barrel carbs. If any single one is not in tune the whole engine suffers a performance loss and unbalanced stress. If the Rolfer is good it doesn't hurt any more than a regular massage. It's very very slow steady pressure that breaks up binding within connective tissue (fascia) where it is bound in a way that detrimentally stiffens a part of the body. That stiffness, which we often ignore because it is chronic and we get used to it, causes constant strain on joints by over-tensioning ligaments and tendons. Once the fascia is freed up the strain on the tendons goes away, then their inflammation reduces and they reduce pressure on the joint, then the joint pain (caused by its inflammation) disappears. Best of all, the effect is NOT temporary. It's basically a permenent fix unless you severely re-strain the muscle or go through years of continued normal-life misuse.
In my case my knee problems were fixed within 4, maybe 5, weekly visits and stayed great until I restrained them a couple weeks ago because of two hours of trampolining with my son. I knew that was unwise, given my weight and lack of conditioning, but I made a promise. The good news is that my knees, after being specifically targeted for abuse, are not as bad now as they had been in the past just from standing around on concrete at cars shows. I have a Rolfing appointment this coming Tuesday and I'm really looking forward to it.
I know the preceeding was long winded. But most people I talk to don't really know there are so many options to treat their pains.
In short, devote attention to maintaining your body like you would your Vette, and you will live longer and more comfortably to enjoy your Vette.
04-21-2018, 10:55 PM
#32
I ordered M7 in the ZR1.. here’s why and I understand my reasons aren’t directly applicable. I have C6 Grand Sport Callaway 606SC M6. Very fun to drive. I have an Audi RS5 with ZF dual clutch DSG.. very fun to drive.. also have a Porsche Cayenne S 8 sp ZF Automatic: great car and great transmission but I’ve concluded that any transmission with a torque converter just isn’t going to give you as much tactile satisfaction. The A8 is going to be faster but you won’t have as much enjoyment doing it IMO.. when Corvette offers a dual clutch direct shift gearbox, I’ll buy one. My RS5 AUDI has taught me that paddles can be fun and I drive it like a manual, but not all paddles are fun as the Cayenne has them too and I leave the tranny in D 99% of the time.
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Mopar Jimmy (04-23-2018)
04-22-2018, 01:23 AM
#33
04-22-2018, 01:31 AM
#34
-If "tracking" then either, if "racing" then A8.
-If you are getting the car (like I am) specifically to interract with it and enjoy the driving experience, then M7.
-If you are getting the car to enjoy its performance first and driving connection second, then A8.
-If you want a rarer car, M7. This will likely be the very last manual front-engine (IE: true) Corvette ever built. Possibly the last manual Corvette as there are rumors the C8 will be auto only. In fact, the C7 ZR1 is likely to be the very last high performance front-engined sports car ever built. The only other two (which are not high performance) on sale now are the MX-5 and BRZ.
-If you are getting the car (like I am) specifically to interract with it and enjoy the driving experience, then M7.
-If you are getting the car to enjoy its performance first and driving connection second, then A8.
-If you want a rarer car, M7. This will likely be the very last manual front-engine (IE: true) Corvette ever built. Possibly the last manual Corvette as there are rumors the C8 will be auto only. In fact, the C7 ZR1 is likely to be the very last high performance front-engined sports car ever built. The only other two (which are not high performance) on sale now are the MX-5 and BRZ.
I agree, the C7 is likely to be the last Vette with a three pedal manual that can be purchased.
Last edited by AZ Car Guy; 04-22-2018 at 11:42 AM.
04-22-2018, 06:14 PM
#35
Safety Car
If your on the relaxed,lazy side definitely get the A8.If most of your vehicles are automatics get the A8.If most of your cars are vehicles are manuals and you get bored easy just sitting
There doing nothing then you really need to get the M7.
There doing nothing then you really need to get the M7.
04-22-2018, 07:06 PM
#36
It is rumored that the C8 will get a dual clutch direct shift gearbox. For anyone who’s never driven one, they can shift just like an automatic if you are in city traffic or just plain don’t feel like manually shifting. But for sportier driving they are NOTICIBLY more fun to shift up and down than the best torque converter automatic ever made. The reason is that your rear wheels are always directly connected to the engine mechanically. No “fluid coupling” for an instant before the lockup mechanism. Don’t get me wrong, the A8 shifts fast and is likely faster on both the track and strip than a M7. Imo, it just won’t give you the kicks a manual or DSG will. The M7 will likely be the last manual seen in a Vette. The DSG in the C8 may cause A8 cars to devalue but M7 cars to appreciate. DSG’s may not appeal to some M7 guys... I guarantee you they will appeal to all A8 guys.
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JerriVette (04-22-2018)
04-22-2018, 10:50 PM
#37
Race Director
Sure I want a dct in the c8 as it's an interesting technical development.
Deciding between a manual or a torque converter automatic transmission in the last front engine most powerful ever built corvette is a personal choice.
If it were me? I'd probably go for the manual.
The torque converter automatics are flawless in automatic mode although manual mode is not quite as impressive as a dct or manual transmission. I enjoy being close to the action for that feeling yet of course each buyer needs to decide what they want. No wrong choice...just a personal one.
Good luck deciding for yourself.
Last edited by JerriVette; 04-22-2018 at 10:55 PM.
04-22-2018, 11:41 PM
#38
04-23-2018, 12:29 AM
#39
04-23-2018, 11:47 AM
#40
Team Owner
You are kidding right? Not all of us have joints issues. Past 50 here and run almost daily. Mow a half acre twice week with a push mover. No joint issues and the A8 has been sitting because the M7 is just more fun to drive. The Z06 doesn't feel like it is as much sports car with the A8.
Not all of us have joints issues. Past 50 here and run almost daily. Mow a half acre twice week with a push mover. No joint issues and the A8 has been sitting because the M7 is just more fun to drive. The Z06 doesn't feel like it is as much sports car with the A8.Just about every time I come to a stop, I slip it into neutral and put it into gear just before traffic starts to move.
You can't compare "past 50" to 75. At just "past 50" I was also doing a lot of things that are now near impossible to perform at 75.
