Test drove A8 and M7 ZO6 today-made my decision for the ZR1
04-28-2018, 03:45 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
I wasn’t implying you were the purveyor of what I think is crap info. As you said, Road Track is shilling what they are told by various “sources.”
There will be a manual C8 and I’d be willing to put money on it. While the take rate is less than it used to be due to constantly improving automatic transmissions, it’s still significant enough for them to plop in a Tremec or whatever for the % of people who would only buy a manual.
Last edited by Palantirion; 04-28-2018 at 03:46 PM.
04-28-2018, 07:17 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
- If the C8 is engineered from the outset for an automated manual it is highly unlikely that a conventional manual will fit the same transaxle in a cost-effective enough way that GM would produce it. It just goes against the grain of manufacturer-think. The only example I can think of where public (American in this case) demand changed a manufacturer's transmission offering was the E60 gen M5. It was released with SMG only, and after a lot of complaining BMW offered a 6spd, but only in America because EU customers didn't care. But that was in a front engine sedan, where production modifications would be much more minimal than in a mid-engined car.
Do you REALLY believe they would close the door from the outset on the C8 by designing the car with no manual option availability? Think about that for a minute when comparing the C6 lineup, then the C7 lineup. My C6 ZR1 AND the C6 Z06 was “sacred” enough to only have the manual and fixed roof. How many did they sell in all the years of ZR1? Like 4,500 IIRC. Z06? I think around 25,000 from 2006 to 2013. Not that many. Why? No automatic and no convertible option. Heck, you couldn’t even get targa.
So, GM threw that business plan out with the bath water on the C7 and said we are going to maximize variations on all the different models. They sold a TON.
So, now on the C8, they are going to say screw the manual guys and screw an option that has been on the Vette since basically the very beginning? I don’t think so. It would be dumb of GM and GM is about volume.
Last edited by QUIKAG; 04-28-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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Judgment Day (04-30-2018)
04-28-2018, 07:38 PM
#44
Melting Slicks
04-28-2018, 07:58 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Do you REALLY believe they would close the door from the outset on the C8 by designing the car with no manual option availability?
So, now on the C8, they are going to say screw the manual guys and screw an option that has been on the Vette since basically the very beginning?
So, now on the C8, they are going to say screw the manual guys and screw an option that has been on the Vette since basically the very beginning?
Mind you, I agree with your points. And I ordered my ZR1 manual, and simply would not have ordered a ZR1 without the manual.
That being said, GM didn't ask my opinion when designing the C8. And BMW didn't ask my opinion when designing the E60 or subsequent auto-tranny M5s (I own an E39 M5). Why? They don't care about my opinion, or yours. And neither did Maclaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Porsche (ok, Porsche cared a little), Audi or Mercedes - all of which only offer automatics in their sports cars now.
They care about the math. If 80% of Corvette are sold as automatics, and if the rest of that market segment (the competition) is a higher percentage - most are 100% now, then GM knows they will lose at most 20-25% of existing sales (23% manual sales in CY 2016). But really it won't be that many, because a good half of that 23% will go along with the new auto-tranny car and buy one. It's not like they have an alternative, except to not buy a new sports car (which is my choice).
So worst case scenario GM looks to lose 12% of existing Corvette buyers. The upside? Corvette will now compete "properly" on the world stage by having the same basic architecture as "proper" supercars such as those by Ferrari, Lambo, Maclaren, etc. I guarantee that this will more than make up for that lost 12%, and obviosuly GM has come to the same conclusion.
You are now a dinosaur, just like me.
Last edited by Palantirion; 04-28-2018 at 08:07 PM.
04-28-2018, 08:02 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
- Yes.
Mind you, I agree with your points. And I ordered my ZR1 manual, and simply would not have ordered a ZR1 without the manual.
That being said, GM didn't ask my opinion when designing the C8. And BMW didn't ask my opinion when designing the E60 or subsequent auto-tranny M5s (I own an E39 M5). Why? They don't care about my opinion, or yours. They care about the math. If 80% of Corvette are sold as automatics, and if the rest of that market segment (the competition) is a higher percentage - most are 100% now, then GM knows they will lose at most 20% of existing sales. But really it won't be that many, because a good half of that 20% will go along with the new auto-tranny car and buy one. It's not like they have an alternative, except to not buy a new sports car (which is my choice).
So worst case scenario GM looks to lose 10% of existing Corvette buyers. The upside? Corvette will now compete "properly" on the world stage by having the same basic architecture as "proper" supercars such as those by Ferrari, Lambo, Maclaren, etc. I guarantee that this will more than make up for that lost 10%, and obviosuly GM has come to the same conclusion.
You are now a dinosaur, just like me.
Mind you, I agree with your points. And I ordered my ZR1 manual, and simply would not have ordered a ZR1 without the manual.
That being said, GM didn't ask my opinion when designing the C8. And BMW didn't ask my opinion when designing the E60 or subsequent auto-tranny M5s (I own an E39 M5). Why? They don't care about my opinion, or yours. They care about the math. If 80% of Corvette are sold as automatics, and if the rest of that market segment (the competition) is a higher percentage - most are 100% now, then GM knows they will lose at most 20% of existing sales. But really it won't be that many, because a good half of that 20% will go along with the new auto-tranny car and buy one. It's not like they have an alternative, except to not buy a new sports car (which is my choice).
So worst case scenario GM looks to lose 10% of existing Corvette buyers. The upside? Corvette will now compete "properly" on the world stage by having the same basic architecture as "proper" supercars such as those by Ferrari, Lambo, Maclaren, etc. I guarantee that this will more than make up for that lost 10%, and obviosuly GM has come to the same conclusion.
You are now a dinosaur, just like me.
04-28-2018, 08:13 PM
#47
Race Director
- Yes, absolutely.
Mind you, I agree with your points. And I ordered my ZR1 manual, and simply would not have ordered a ZR1 without the manual.
That being said, GM didn't ask my opinion when designing the C8. And BMW didn't ask my opinion when designing the E60 or subsequent auto-tranny M5s (I own an E39 M5). Why? They don't care about my opinion, or yours. And neither did Maclaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Porsche (ok, Porsche cared a little), Audi or Mercedes - all of which only offer automatics in their sports cars now.
They care about the math. If 80% of Corvette are sold as automatics, and if the rest of that market segment (the competition) is a higher percentage - most are 100% now, then GM knows they will lose at most 20-25% of existing sales (23% manual sales in CY 2016). But really it won't be that many, because a good half of that 23% will go along with the new auto-tranny car and buy one. It's not like they have an alternative, except to not buy a new sports car (which is my choice).
So worst case scenario GM looks to lose 12% of existing Corvette buyers. The upside? Corvette will now compete "properly" on the world stage by having the same basic architecture as "proper" supercars such as those by Ferrari, Lambo, Maclaren, etc. I guarantee that this will more than make up for that lost 12%, and obviosuly GM has come to the same conclusion.
You are now a dinosaur, just like me.
Mind you, I agree with your points. And I ordered my ZR1 manual, and simply would not have ordered a ZR1 without the manual.
That being said, GM didn't ask my opinion when designing the C8. And BMW didn't ask my opinion when designing the E60 or subsequent auto-tranny M5s (I own an E39 M5). Why? They don't care about my opinion, or yours. And neither did Maclaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Porsche (ok, Porsche cared a little), Audi or Mercedes - all of which only offer automatics in their sports cars now.
They care about the math. If 80% of Corvette are sold as automatics, and if the rest of that market segment (the competition) is a higher percentage - most are 100% now, then GM knows they will lose at most 20-25% of existing sales (23% manual sales in CY 2016). But really it won't be that many, because a good half of that 23% will go along with the new auto-tranny car and buy one. It's not like they have an alternative, except to not buy a new sports car (which is my choice).
So worst case scenario GM looks to lose 12% of existing Corvette buyers. The upside? Corvette will now compete "properly" on the world stage by having the same basic architecture as "proper" supercars such as those by Ferrari, Lambo, Maclaren, etc. I guarantee that this will more than make up for that lost 12%, and obviosuly GM has come to the same conclusion.
You are now a dinosaur, just like me.
The company selling manual transmissions will continue to supply the corvette plant with manual transmissions since 23 percent of all corvettes are sold with manuals...
GM will have a manual transmission available for 7000 buyers a year.
No manufacturer walks away from 7000 customers with money in hand to purchase a specific transmission.
Even Ferrari waited until their cars were sold in single digits before they gave up on manual transmissions ..
GM sells literally 7 thousand manual transmission corvettes a year.
Will it be free? Probably not...I'd imagine if Porsche and Mazda can offer both an automatic and manual transmission..so can the corvette...
The sky is not falling...the naysayers would have you worry for nothing...
7000 manual transmission corvettes per year
Last edited by JerriVette; 04-28-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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JerriVette (04-28-2018)
04-28-2018, 09:22 PM
#49
Team Owner
I back to back daily drive both and 80 percent of the time I drive the M7.
Not hard to decide between the two which is more fun.
Going to get another manual.
Not hard to decide between the two which is more fun.
Going to get another manual.
04-29-2018, 03:19 PM
#51
Melting Slicks
I agree. If they had DCT and it worked well, I would choose it over manual.
04-29-2018, 05:59 PM
#52
Race Director
I might do the ten speed automatic converter example...as I hear it's unbelievably well designed...but most probably would buy a manual if no dct is offered...
Low teens for the manual will occur if the dct is offered ...and may even drop even lower by the third year...
04-30-2018, 12:09 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2017
Location: Saint Clair Shores Michigan
Posts: 767
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153 Posts
The company selling manual transmissions will continue to supply the corvette plant with manual transmissions since 23 percent of all corvettes are sold with manuals...
GM will have a manual transmission available for 7000 buyers a year.
No manufacturer walks away from 7000 customers with money in hand to purchase a specific transmission.
Even Ferrari waited until their cars were sold in single digits before they gave up on manual transmissions ..
GM sells literally 7 thousand manual transmission corvettes a year.
Will it be free? Probably not...I'd imagine if Porsche and Mazda can offer both an automatic and manual transmission..so can the corvette...
The sky is not falling...the naysayers would have you worry for nothing...
7000 manual transmission corvettes per year
GM will have a manual transmission available for 7000 buyers a year.
No manufacturer walks away from 7000 customers with money in hand to purchase a specific transmission.
Even Ferrari waited until their cars were sold in single digits before they gave up on manual transmissions ..
GM sells literally 7 thousand manual transmission corvettes a year.
Will it be free? Probably not...I'd imagine if Porsche and Mazda can offer both an automatic and manual transmission..so can the corvette...
The sky is not falling...the naysayers would have you worry for nothing...
7000 manual transmission corvettes per year
Let's not forget initial figures when a new generational vehicle is released for a particular product line (unless we have already). Didn't the Z06 sell/produce like 50% in manuals upon initial release in 2015? Granted, that percentages eventually decreased, but that's the norm with any vehicle once the years pass.
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JerriVette (05-01-2018)
05-01-2018, 12:58 AM
#54
Be smart and think about your health.
Last edited by XpatVetteLover; 05-01-2018 at 12:58 AM.
