What's Taking GM So Long For a Ring Time?
05-31-2018, 03:12 PM
#401
Le Mans Master
The C6 ZR1! :0
Regarding your Z06.....you do realize that it is the only car in the world to go under 7:18 at the Ring without a rear wing? Everything else needed some sort of substantial rear wing (also showing how important a wing is on a car for ultimate track times). That is a huge accomplishment when it was tested by a German magazine and was far from a perfect run or all out effort IMO. The Z06 is a serious piece of equipment.
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 05-31-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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desmophile (05-31-2018)
05-31-2018, 04:09 PM
#402
I don't think using Randy Pobst's time at Road Atlanta is a good benchmark for what the ZR1 is capable of. The fact that a reasonably competent driver (Pobst) was able to break a track record in less than a day of driving a car brand new to him is absolutely astounding, and I'm sure if Mero or one of the Corvette Racing drivers took the car for a spin it would be a much more significant margin. As far as extracting lap time to predict a lap time at another track... that never really works. Hopefully GM releases a time, but if not then hopefully Sport Auto gets their hands on an example to thrash about 
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05-31-2018, 04:52 PM
#403
The GT2RS might be everyone here's "benchmark" but I don't call a car with an auto the "ringleader".
05-31-2018, 04:53 PM
#404
Yes Pobst is a great driver, and it's really impressive how he came up from autocross to truly become a pro driver but at least within the last few years as he's taken on more of a "journalists" role he hasn't really been able to extract the most out of any of the Corvettes he's driven; either that or he remembers he's a factory Porsche guy 
05-31-2018, 08:20 PM
#406
Drifting
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
Last edited by Dave Schotz; 05-31-2018 at 08:25 PM.
05-31-2018, 08:50 PM
#407
Le Mans Master
The car looked loose and bad! ;)
Actual racer's (in my experience) typically do not use PTM/Traction Control, it's preference, the systems get more and more advanced, really challenging that you'd be faster without... so it can just come down to preference. I don't like running with it on... unsettles the car in my experience, but if I grew up 'driving cars without Traction control'... you have others who are coming up only knowing traction control/PTM and thus are faster with it than without.
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
Mero, and company, uses PTM at The Ring.
Cars use AWD and AWS and comparing with them without it is stupid! He has he is.
Besides Dave chassis ABS stability, eLSD, and MR don't disengage - EVER!
Too much weight in this Street car isn't making it through The Ring.... Unsettled. That 1:51 justified it, period.
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-01-2018 at 06:43 PM.
05-31-2018, 09:55 PM
#408
Drifting
Guys are afraid of it and demonstrating loose wiggles was counterproductive. Road and Track report such.
Mero, and company, uses PTM at The Ring.
Cars use AWD and AWS and comparing with them without it is stupid! He has he is.
Besides Dave chassis ABS stability, eLSD, and MR don't disengage - EVER!
Too much weight in this Strret car isn't making it through The Ring.... Unsettled. That 1:51 justified it, period.
Mero, and company, uses PTM at The Ring.
Cars use AWD and AWS and comparing with them without it is stupid! He has he is.
Besides Dave chassis ABS stability, eLSD, and MR don't disengage - EVER!
Too much weight in this Strret car isn't making it through The Ring.... Unsettled. That 1:51 justified it, period.
But again, agree that the 'gap' is narrowing on how much can actually be turned off.
Best Regards,
Dave
05-31-2018, 10:21 PM
#409
Le Mans Master
Pobst used to compete without ABS! ;)
I do agree with you, that cars use ABS, AWD, RWS & eLSD (for those equipped) without the ability to disengage... but most do offer the ability to remove stability and traction control from an 'acceleration' perspective.
But again, agree that the 'gap' is narrowing on how much can actually be turned off.
Best Regards,
Dave
But again, agree that the 'gap' is narrowing on how much can actually be turned off.
Best Regards,
Dave
)!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-02-2018 at 11:15 PM.
06-01-2018, 12:19 AM
#410
Le Mans Master
Oh I forgot you're The Porsche man! ;)
I do agree with you, that cars use ABS, AWD, RWS & eLSD (for those equipped) without the ability to disengage... but most do offer the ability to remove stability and traction control from an 'acceleration' perspective.
But again, agree that the 'gap' is narrowing on how much can actually be turned off.
Best Regards,
Dave
But again, agree that the 'gap' is narrowing on how much can actually be turned off.
Best Regards,
Dave
Porsche had comprehensive information on their website so I got busy.
Anyway, the Porsche's used stability braking at entry and the eLSD at exit the last I checked.
They burn a whole lot of rear brakes on track.
And one guy was real surprised to find out that his GT3 electronics were fouling up a his dyno when they were supposed to be off.
NO 911 DRIVER DID THAT RING MAGIC WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF HELP! THE 991 JUST FINALLY GOT ITS ELECTRONIC DUCKS IN A ROW - NOTHING MUCH HAD CHANGED SINCE RANDY SPUN OUT THE GT3 RS at LS TWICE (career first).
Truth be told (Gap!?)!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-01-2018 at 11:40 AM.
06-01-2018, 01:11 AM
#411
Drifting
After the GT2 RS run a guy here said the electronics were turned off. Being I'm a 911 conesuar from way back I said it at least had the AWS on.
Porsche had comprehensive information on their website so I got busy.
Anyway, the Porsches used stability braking at entry and the eLSD at exit.
They burn a whole lot of rear brakes on track.
And one guy was real surprised to find out that his GT3 electronics were fouling up a his dyno when they were supposed to be off.
NO 911 DRIVER DID THAT RING MAGIC WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF HELP! THE 991 JUST FINALLY GOT ITS ELECTRONIC DUCKS IN A ROW - NOTHING MUCH HAD CHANGED SINCE RANDY SPUN OUT THE GT3 RS at LS TWICE (career first).
Truth be told (Gap!?)!
Porsche had comprehensive information on their website so I got busy.
Anyway, the Porsches used stability braking at entry and the eLSD at exit.
They burn a whole lot of rear brakes on track.
And one guy was real surprised to find out that his GT3 electronics were fouling up a his dyno when they were supposed to be off.
NO 911 DRIVER DID THAT RING MAGIC WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF HELP! THE 991 JUST FINALLY GOT ITS ELECTRONIC DUCKS IN A ROW - NOTHING MUCH HAD CHANGED SINCE RANDY SPUN OUT THE GT3 RS at LS TWICE (career first).
Truth be told (Gap!?)!
The reason they use up rear brakes is because people leave stability control ON.
The cars electronics kick in on the dyno, only if the front wheels aren't rolling, if you use an AWD dyno, they dyno fine, or you need a PIWIS to put the car in dyno mode.
I race a corvette, I'm a car guy.
I for one have said all along, I believed the zr1 should break 7 minutes... I'm not sure why GM hasn't posted a time, quit trying to make the A8 a track car... Use the M7, and smash the viper time.
Best Regards,
Dave
06-01-2018, 06:28 AM
#412
Le Mans Master
Without digging back through again! ;)
Some of this is accurate... You cannot turn off RWS, or eDiff, the rest is 100% defeatable.
The reason they use up rear brakes is because people leave stability control ON.
The cars electronics kick in on the dyno, only if the front wheels aren't rolling, if you use an AWD dyno, they dyno fine, or you need a PIWIS to put the car in dyno mode.
I race a corvette, I'm a car guy.
I for one have said all along, I believed the zr1 should break 7 minutes... I'm not sure why GM hasn't posted a time, quit trying to make the A8 a track car... Use the M7, and smash the viper time.
Best Regards,
Dave
God help them in a 911!
Heck, again, if the 911 could just slip it around The Ring the 997 GT2 RS would have been far more successful. The tail happy 911 mid engined in the race car!?
911 guys are always fun and you're better than the last one - but No Cigar!
And
The M7 fast arguments based on!? There's simply is no precedent for it, but, the 1:51 certainly does a lot to delegitimize it!
(The last powerful Porsche (GT) with nothing killed someone!)
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-01-2018 at 09:54 AM.
06-01-2018, 10:02 AM
#413
Drifting
As for the M7 fast argument, it's just based on years of racing, you don't see Automatics on the race track. Yes, they can do a hot lap (or 5 even
) So I think for 'one lap' yes, the A8 will be a couple of tenth's quicker. But the Manual trans while in some cases will be 'ultimately slower', if you're going lap after lap (or in the case of the ring, 13 miles flat out) the Manual trans may ultimately stay cooler, and thus produce an overall quicker time. For comparison, Pobst was .3 tenths slower around Willow in the Manual car, vs. PDK. And Porsche was 3 seconds slower between the two at the Ring.
GM posted a very fast ZL1 1LE time with a Manual around the ring, and Sport Auto's Z06 time was with a Manual around the ring.
I 'think' we'd all be willing to give up a couple seconds to at least have a time, as again, I don't see how a ZR1 with a Manual wouldn't be significantly quicker than the Viper Ring time.
Best Regards,
Dave
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rb185afm (06-06-2018)
06-01-2018, 10:39 AM
#414
Le Mans Master
He likesum auto! ;)
Even full auto when best served, it seems. Pobst shifts the 488 too!
True the Viper got down there, and if all you think is in the Vette is a couple more then sure the manual.
If your looking for that more Viper trouncing, Safer!
Thanks!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-01-2018 at 10:42 AM.
06-01-2018, 11:39 AM
#415
Is this an attempt to cling onto Viper's Ring time as anything less than disappointing? There won't be any Manuals (unfortunately) in the near future for true sports cars.
Actual racer's (in my experience) typically do not use PTM/Traction Control, it's preference, the systems get more and more advanced, really challenging that you'd be faster without... so it can just come down to preference. I don't like running with it on... unsettles the car in my experience, but if I grew up 'driving cars without Traction control'... you have others who are coming up only knowing traction control/PTM and thus are faster with it than without.
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
Actual racer's (in my experience) typically do not use PTM/Traction Control, it's preference, the systems get more and more advanced, really challenging that you'd be faster without... so it can just come down to preference. I don't like running with it on... unsettles the car in my experience, but if I grew up 'driving cars without Traction control'... you have others who are coming up only knowing traction control/PTM and thus are faster with it than without.
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
According to Car and Driver, Fiat Chrysler is quite keen on developing a new Viper to square off with the Chevrolet Corvette.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...550-hp-v8.html
In an effort to set itself apart from the competition, FCA is eyeing a manual transmission for the next-gen Viper. It’s not clear if the car will be manual only, or if it will have an automatic transmission option.
Last edited by ViperFan1; 06-01-2018 at 11:46 AM.
06-01-2018, 12:33 PM
#416
Drifting
https://youtu.be/NYXDseXBTuc
https://youtu.be/JM8Q2_DKlDs
Even full auto when best served, it seems. Pobst shifts the 488 too!
True the Viper got down there, and if all you think is in the Vette is a couple more then sure the manual.
If your looking for that more Viper trouncing, Safer!
Thanks!
https://youtu.be/JM8Q2_DKlDs
Even full auto when best served, it seems. Pobst shifts the 488 too!
True the Viper got down there, and if all you think is in the Vette is a couple more then sure the manual.
If your looking for that more Viper trouncing, Safer!
Thanks!
According to Car and Driver, Fiat Chrysler is quite keen on developing a new Viper to square off with the Chevrolet Corvette.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...550-hp-v8.html
Best Regards,
Dave
Last edited by Dave Schotz; 06-01-2018 at 08:11 PM.
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ViperFan1 (06-02-2018)
06-01-2018, 07:37 PM
#417
Le Mans Master
Excuse me Dave you were on board with the eLSD being on.
Anyway, PTV uses stability braking on entry.
https://www.porsche.com/australia/mo...plus-ptv-plus/
He likes Autos, and told me that here!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-03-2018 at 10:12 AM.
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ViperFan1 (06-02-2018)
06-01-2018, 08:30 PM
#418
Race Director
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https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a21052484/sergio-marchionne-new-dodge-viper-not-in-the-plan/
Is it possible GM is waiting for Michelin to develop the same compound tires Porsche used in Corvette sizes for a fairer comparison?
Last edited by PRE-Z06; 06-01-2018 at 08:32 PM.
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06-02-2018, 09:00 AM
#419
Le Mans Master
Why Pobst would be better PTM off setting a time!? ;)
Is this an attempt to cling onto Viper's Ring time as anything less than disappointing? There won't be any Manuals (unfortunately) in the near future for true sports cars.
Actual racer's (in my experience) typically do not use PTM/Traction Control, it's preference, the systems get more and more advanced, really challenging that you'd be faster without... so it can just come down to preference. I don't like running with it on... unsettles the car in my experience, but if I grew up 'driving cars without Traction control'... you have others who are coming up only knowing traction control/PTM and thus are faster with it than without.
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
Actual racer's (in my experience) typically do not use PTM/Traction Control, it's preference, the systems get more and more advanced, really challenging that you'd be faster without... so it can just come down to preference. I don't like running with it on... unsettles the car in my experience, but if I grew up 'driving cars without Traction control'... you have others who are coming up only knowing traction control/PTM and thus are faster with it than without.
Randy is a phenomenal driver, and frankly I'd take him over Mero any day. One is an Engineer.. the other a Pro.
Best Regards,
Dave
) But, Pobst doesn't know the car and figures he would set it more so he turns it off so at a minimum he doesn't suffer the indignity. Those wiggles would probably have set it so he was right! He was a Man!
Excuse me!?
Here he is:
We find that the calibration settings that achieve the fastest lap times often result in expert drivers feeling like they are being held back slightly on corner exit. Most of the time that extra little bit of slip that an expert driver wants is over the traction peak of the tire and may feel good but is wasting forward acceleration. The restrictive feeling is not there as a safety net, rather, it’s as close as we can operate to the peak capability of the tire in a robust way.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rack-mode.html
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-02-2018 at 10:06 AM.
06-02-2018, 11:39 AM
#420
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