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Porsche guy needs convincing.

Old 05-15-2018, 12:30 AM
  #41  
lemobile
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Default Smooth driving

Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
Here's a link to one of Poor-sha's threads when he's driving his C7 Z06.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...3-cup-car.html

Here's the Youtube link in the thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=04ugN-rHNYA


See the predator's wee snack start at about 14:05...ummm, yummy!
This guy is smooth and a good driver
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:43 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
I'm in Pound Ridge, NY. Which clubs do you use??

I put in an internet request for the ZR1-1ZR A8 to 3 local dealers using the "Build Your Own" Chevy website and said I was willing to wait until Spring next year but wasn't willing to pay over MSRP . . . we'll see

nasa / pcy
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:16 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by lemobile View Post
This guy is smooth and a good driver
I'm good friends with Sean and have ridden with him on track a few times. Trust me when I say: smooth isn't a word I'd use. He's had to emergency pit-in a few times so that I didn't ... uh ... decorate the interior of his car.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:02 PM
  #44  
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Default Porsche afficianado considering a Corvette

A couple of years ago I was interested in getting a high performance car to take to the track. Last true performance car was 1972 Lotus Europa. Best handling car in its category at that time in my opinion. Years of life went by.....


I wanted something similar, but with more power.

Reading Road and Track PCOTY 2017:



"Without a doubt, the Lotus is the best pure driver's car in the group. It's enough to make me overlook the aftermarket-style stereo and the somewhat casual manner in which the interior has been assembled from commercially available parts. I worry, however, that the rest of my compatriots won't feel the same.


The Evora is one of just two cars here with a clutch pedal. The other is the Corvette Grand Sport. It would be a mistake to characterize it as a bigger, faster Evora; Smith says of the pair that "the Evora is the only real car here, in the traditional analog sense. All the rest are machines. Except the Corvette, which is a machine that does a damn good impression of a car. Every aspect of the Corvette is computer-controlled, yet it's done so well that it feels transparent."


That R&T would even hint at a Corvette having some Lotusness in it was enough for me to bite. I wanted more power so I got the Z06. Ordered it the way I wanted it for the track. Never even sat in one at the dealer. The Z has not disappointed. The handling is obviously heavier, but still crisp (and I ran it on slicks last weekend and OMG). Yes it's power demands respect. "Raquel" is a no nonsense instructor. Do something stupid and you get slapped quickly. But then, usually, the nannies bail you out. (I have not driven her with all the nannies off. Driving in the rain last weekend I found I was able to defeat the wet mode/ABS and slide off the track anyway.....). So I enjoy the challenge the car poses as I learn to drive better. I have no doubt that, at age 65, I will not live long enough to get bored with this car.


The bottom line is, unless you earn your livelihood racing, get the car that makes you happy.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:47 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
You're talkin' some serious smack thee boy

Seriously though I'm a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club, and we have "vettes and Camaros galore try a run on the track, but Porsches beat them by a mile. Look it up. 'vettes and Camaros do 58 seconds at best at Lime Rock but Porsches pull 53s on a regular basis.

Now, having said that I will admit the ZR1 may be the game changer and THAT is why I joined this forum and put in an order for a ZR1.
Sorry, but the fastest car does not always win, right? There is one additional element, the driver, so while I am not the world's best driver, these guys in their fast Porsches were even worse. The same thing frequently happened when I took the Camaro to Corvette events and I beat most of the Corvettes. The single-marque clubs don't usually have the best drivers, so this sometimes results in easy pickings.

I can remember a new guy showing up at a local autocross and getting thoroughly spanked by one of our geriatric guys driving a car which, in most tests, was considerably slower than the new kid's car. He just couldn't understand how this was happening and I actually felt sorry for him.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:25 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by desmophile View Post
A couple of years ago I was interested in getting a high performance car to take to the track. Last true performance car was 1972 Lotus Europa. Best handling car in its category at that time in my opinion. Years of life went by.....


I wanted something similar, but with more power.

Reading Road and Track PCOTY 2017:



"Without a doubt, the Lotus is the best pure driver's car in the group. It's enough to make me overlook the aftermarket-style stereo and the somewhat casual manner in which the interior has been assembled from commercially available parts. I worry, however, that the rest of my compatriots won't feel the same.
You had a stereo in your Lotus? Why would you do that? Must have added 5 pounds at least and you can't hear it unless you're parked.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:29 PM
  #47  
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Oh, my mistake: you were quoting the article.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:02 PM
  #48  
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The lack of torque in most Porsche engines is a deal killer after you've experienced the shove of the LS/LT engines. The only Porsche I'd consider passable and would be a replacement for my C7Z is a 2018 GT3 with the manual transmission. Drove my friend's and it's phenomenal. But all the little Cayman/Boxster variants would be an absolute bore after tracking a Z06.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:44 PM
  #49  
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Had the ZR1 at Road America Saturday. Lots of BMW and 911 varieties out there as well.
It all depends what you are used to. The ZR1 is a heavy car and has very nice handling. I would not think it as nimble as a Caymen. It also has gobs of power. The 911 Turbo guys were used to being the fastest on the straights, but now had to point the ZR1 buy. Very few cars out there could keep up with the ZR1 in corners and no one could touch the braking ability. Hope this helps.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:09 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by stevebz06 View Post
Oh, my mistake: you were quoting the article.
It's OK. I didn't because of what you said
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:21 PM
  #51  
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Since you have driven the Z06 on track the ZR1's handling will not be too much different. A FE 755 horsepower Corvette is a different animal on course compared to your Cayman. A 991.1 GT3 used or a new 991.2 may be more along the lines of what you are looking for because of the car's characteristics. Switching to a FE car means switching up lines, braking points, different trail braking, left foot braking is a tad more nerve-racking, and you would have a different feel mid-corner as well with the front engine layout. Maybe the jump would be fun, learning to track something new (I guess, I do not know what you have tracked).

I come from tracking mustangs and have buddies who have tracked a ton of mid-engine cars and my dad used to run a 914 with the PCA. We have discussed differences from the layouts in depth.

*Also, take what I say with a grain of salt as Corvette's are front-mid engine with near 50/50 weight distribution and my experience is with mustangs (sorry guys). I plan to do a few track events in my Z but I still have my mustang dedicated track car.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:54 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by GarryZR1 View Post
Had the ZR1 at Road America Saturday. Lots of BMW and 911 varieties out there as well.
It all depends what you are used to. The ZR1 is a heavy car and has very nice handling. I would not think it as nimble as a Caymen. It also has gobs of power. The 911 Turbo guys were used to being the fastest on the straights, but now had to point the ZR1 buy. Very few cars out there could keep up with the ZR1 in corners and no one could touch the braking ability. Hope this helps.
Did you get any lap.times?
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:51 PM
  #53  
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My only comparison is between my 2015 z51 and my 2017 c2s. I loved my c7, but it only beats the C2S in price, and I couldn’t care less about that. The Porsche beats it in every other way in my opinion. I might be swayed to go back to the Corvette when the ME arrives....we will see....very impressed with the Porsche! Not a fanboy of any car.....but love cars in general.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:14 AM
  #54  
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OP, it really comes down to what you are looking for but let me add my experience. For the most part, the only cars I've really tracked in anger were Corvettes (C6Z, C7 Z51, C7 Z06, C7 Z07, and soon to be C7 ZR1). However, I did own for close to a decade a 986 S that had the 997 3.8L motor in it which was a hoot to drive on the street and I always drove it with everything off. I also had the opportunity to do a few hot laps in a student's Audi R8 so I have a little ME track experience.

Going from a small ME car to a ZR1 is definitely going to be different but my question for you is do you want different? You're going to have a lot more power and be carrying a lot more speed with the ZR1. It'll give you an opportunity to get comfortable with putting that power down as well as carrying what I would expect to be more speed mid-corner.

From a driving style the nice thing about the 986 was that it was very easy to rotate and to control ridiculous slip angles through a corner. I could kick the backend out and just hold it there as long as I liked it whereas with the Corvette it is more difficult to stay ahead of the rotation due to the higher mass at both ends. You can do it but there is less margin for error in your reactions. In the R8 on track I found that I had to do a lot more trail braking to get the front end to grip going in to the corner because there was no mass and relatively small tired up front. Whereas with the Corvette the trail braking is a lot more gentle and I am just fine tuning the balance to adjust my line rather than a necessary part of getting down to the apex. I hope this makes sense.

On track I'm expecting the ZR1 to just more more of Z06 so if you can find a friend or a student who will let you do a few laps in their Z06 that will give you a feel for the platform. Personally, I love the C7 platform on track and I am actually not excited about the coming ME because of the change in driving dynamics. Like you, I'm just used to what I know.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:49 AM
  #55  
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I read somewhere that if you enjoy road coursing a Miata then you're going to love the ZR1.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:36 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
Ok. I admit it's a first world spoiled old guy problem, but I race in PCA with an '04 Boxster and own a Cayman R, BUT I'm thinking it's time to try something from the good 'ole US of A and buy myself a ZR1. First problem is getting in line, BUT I'm really worried I won't like it 'cuz I'm a mid-engine snob. Has anyone out there driven a ZR1 AND a Porsche that can speak to the relative behavior of this American Super Car?
Haven't driven a C7ZR1, but I have tracked a Cayman.

I've also tracked a C7 Z51 manual, C7 Z51 auto, C7 Z06 manual, C7 Z06 auto, and a GS. I've tracked many other cars in addition to the various C7 variants.

Comparing the Cayman to ANY of the C7 variants, the most notable difference is the lack of torque in the cayman. That difference FAR out weighs any other difference between the cars.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:40 PM
  #57  
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One more thing. If you do get a chance to drive a Z06 or a ZR1 on track it is important that you drive one that is properly aligned/setup. The right alignment makes a huge difference in the way the C7 feels on track so if you end up driving one with a bad alignment it will not be a good reflection on how great these cars can be.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:56 PM
  #58  
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Buy American Made. Why buy some German piece of **** when Germany is biased against the United States? I have German expat friends. All they do is talk **** about how lazy, fat and dumb American people are.

**** Germany and Europe.

Shitty EU systems set up against Americans who live there.

About time the United States reciprocated against countries who have rigged systems against us there.

Americans first finally.

ZR1 is in another class today. Porsche cannot compete.

Last edited by XpatVetteLover; 05-19-2018 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 05-19-2018, 02:07 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by XpatVetteLover View Post
Buy American Made. Why buy some German piece of **** when Germany is biased against the United States? I have German expat friends. All they do is talk **** about how lazy, fat and dumb American people are.

**** Germany and Europe.

Shitty EU systems set up against Americans who live there.

About time the United States reciprocated against countries who have rigged systems against us there.

Americans first finally.

ZR1 is in another class today. Porsche cannot compete.
........but how do you really feel?
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:13 PM
  #60  
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Forgive my ignorance; I'm not a track savvy person. Are ME cars taking a later apex to carry over speed, vs. the Vette relying on trail-braking early and picking an early apex to power out of a turn?


Taking in impressions of the track folks, it seems the Vette powers out of a turn more aggressively and the trick is to tame the rear waggle; do the ME and RE cars get light on the front (most seem to have much narrower front tire width vs. the Corvette)?

Last edited by jivor; 05-19-2018 at 09:23 PM.
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