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That video is Cory Friedman, he has been racing since he was in college, dad owns Porsche race shop and had raced at several pro events, that is a full blown Cup car. Hard to compare unless you are driving a professional setup $200K car
Sean will be very nearly that quick on the repaved surface. Pretty incredible for a street car.
Examples that I use are of drivers that are actually going quickly and the techniques that they are using are real.
In my opinion these are the only Porsches that should even be considered because they are simply incredible cars. Nearly all of the rest of them are just in the way. A fact proven out if you watch Sean's video chasing down the 997 cup car at Summit Point Main. Even then with Sean driving his C7 ZO6 the 997 cup car had to be well driven just to stay in front. All of the rest of the Porsches had nothing for him whatsoever. My expectation is that when Sean is in his ZR1 that cup car won't have anything for him either.
^^sure but for how many laps do you think the Zr1 is going to be able to hold the CUP car? They are just two different cars with different missions.
Most likely, a ZR1 in the right hands with a Cup car in the wrong hands, the Cup car get's it's *** handed to it in a typical track day setting.
Most of the time when these two meet in the future it will be at track days which are usually relegated to 30 minute sessions or less. Ours tend to be 20 or 25 depending on where we are. I happen to run predominantly with PCA and have since 2003 so needless to say I have seen a lot of Porsche's. At our events for the length of our sessions it's my expectation that there are exactly 0 Porsche's that will run with a well driven ZR1.
For my friends and I at track days the mission is the same regardless of what cars we are driving. Go out, have fun with friends, be quick once in awhile and bring the car back in one piece. I am pretty confident the ZR1 is going to perform admirably in a track day/session environment and that question will soon be answered.
Before the stick shift GT3 came out recently, knowing what I know about C7 Z06s I think my choice would have been for a C7 Grand Sport with manual.
Now that the GT3 is stick and Porsche has figured out the oiling issues with the post Mezger engine architecture, it's hard to deny it is a good choice. Why not go with the 3,100 lb naturally aspirated car that has roughly the same performance on paper as a ZR1?
Before the stick shift GT3 came out recently, knowing what I know about C7 Z06s I think my choice would have been for a C7 Grand Sport with manual.
Now that the GT3 is stick and Porsche has figured out the oiling issues with the post Mezger engine architecture, it's hard to deny it is a good choice. Why not go with the 3,100 lb naturally aspirated car that has roughly the same performance on paper as a ZR1?
Well, probably because this is a Vette forum and most here are Vette people, so you're fighting an uphill battle there.
And you can't forget the subjective "Porsche is ugly" comment that holds no weight when it comes to track performance. That one pops up all the time.
I agree, though, if I had the money, the GT3 is a seriously nice choice.
It probably gives a better pure driving experience, given the engineering advances.
I'd always try to start with the lightest car available.
Can't find fault with the ZR1, however, which is probably a better choice to drive to and from the road course and on a daily basis.
Well, probably because this is a Vette forum and most here are Vette people, so you're fighting an uphill battle there.
And you can't forget the subjective "Porsche is ugly" comment that holds no weight when it comes to track performance. That one pops up all the time.
I agree, though, if I had the money, the GT3 is a seriously nice choice.
It probably gives a better pure driving experience, given the engineering advances.
I'd always try to start with the lightest car available.
Can't find fault with the ZR1, however, which is probably a better choice to drive to and from the road course and on a daily basis.
Oh heck, I don't even like the Porsche design language. The C7 lines are far more attractive despite having to package the engine up front. But a car, especially a track car, thrives on simple but effective engineering. Driving feel is more like 99% science nowadays so the engineering has to be stout.
At C6 Z06/911 GT3 curb weight you have a chance of having a car that is consistent so you can focus on your driving and getting in the zone. At 3,600lbs every second you drive it hard the car will shift parameters noticeably and your driving will have to adjust. Yes, lightest car possible 100%.
For a daily driver I bet that front axle lift in the GT3 is pure bliss. Beats me why GM never bothered to make one. The front overhang on the ZR1 looks to be a foot longer. Where the C7 ZR1 will shine is comfort and luggage space. That remains a Chevy stronghold.
One more thing. If you do get a chance to drive a Z06 or a ZR1 on track it is important that you drive one that is properly aligned/setup. The right alignment makes a huge difference in the way the C7 feels on track so if you end up driving one with a bad alignment it will not be a good reflection on how great these cars can be.
That's a big caveat. I guess Randy Pobst found that out too when he first tested the Z06 for Motor Trend.
Oh heck, I don't even like the Porsche design language. The C7 lines are far more attractive despite having to package the engine up front. But a car, especially a track car, thrives on simple but effective engineering. Driving feel is more like 99% science nowadays so the engineering has to be stout.
At C6 Z06/911 GT3 curb weight you have a chance of having a car that is consistent so you can focus on your driving and getting in the zone. At 3,600lbs every second you drive it hard the car will shift parameters noticeably and your driving will have to adjust. Yes, lightest car possible 100%.
For a daily driver I bet that front axle lift in the GT3 is pure bliss. Beats me why GM never bothered to make one. The front overhang on the ZR1 looks to be a foot longer. Where the C7 ZR1 will shine is comfort and luggage space. That remains a Chevy stronghold.
You say stuff like this but here is a full tank of gas at full tilt in a C7 Z06. My fastest lap was lap 21 of 26. If you want, scroll to the 19 minute mark where I pass one 911 GT3 Cup car and then chase the CI in the other GT3 Cup car until I need to come in for fuel. Other than the fact that I doubt the ZR1 is going to be able to go 32 minutes on a tank of fuel in every other respect I expect it to destroy even the GT3 Cup car.
Found this on YouTube, ZR1 vs Porsche at Road America. ZR1 looks to have the Porsche guys covered.
Happy Motoring!
Very cool! That's a typical track day. Lot's of slower Porsche's that you have to wait on while they get out of your way.
For reference in this video this ZR1 is lapping about 10 seconds slower than an SCCA GT2 car there and we've already shown an example of a C7Z06 being driven at nearly GT2 car lap record pace. Unleashed the ZR1 is going to be off the charts fast!!
Driver is being very thoughtful as he makes his way around in his incredible new car. Fun to watch and it sounds great!!
You say stuff like this but here is a full tank of gas at full tilt in a C7 Z06. My fastest lap was lap 21 of 26. If you want, scroll to the 19 minute mark where I pass one 911 GT3 Cup car and then chase the CI in the other GT3 Cup car until I need to come in for fuel. Other than the fact that I doubt the ZR1 is going to be able to go 32 minutes on a tank of fuel in every other respect I expect it to destroy even the GT3 Cup car.
I liked the "woah" around 18:40. Made me laugh.
I love watching this video.
Comical to me that there are still people that don't respect these cars as some of the very fastest in the world. In addition to fast, Corvette's in general are some of the most fun recreational track day cars there are and you can still drive them on the street in reasonable comfort. Just amazing.
You say stuff like this but here is a full tank of gas at full tilt in a C7 Z06. My fastest lap was lap 21 of 26. If you want, scroll to the 19 minute mark where I pass one 911 GT3 Cup car and then chase the CI in the other GT3 Cup car until I need to come in for fuel. Other than the fact that I doubt the ZR1 is going to be able to go 32 minutes on a tank of fuel in every other respect I expect it to destroy even the GT3 Cup car.
It is straightforward to see that you were not driving at full tilt or you were driving a modified Z. Cup 2s overheat on the Z well before the 10 minute mark and the car heatsoaks continuously. Great drivers put the fastest time down in lap 2 or 3 and don't have enough fuel on board to do 26 laps on any course.
There is no destroying in HPDE. If you are a good driver you would make a living out of it. Some folks are simply tuning their cars in HPDE's or working out bugs. If you pass them it means nothing. The only comparison that makes any sense is that of drivers in a regulated GT3 class.
It is also a pure waste of time seeing an HPDE video of someone else, especially when they use traction control. I have far more respect for drivers of older P cars that wrestle a rear engine car that's fully mechanical. Whether they "win" or not in HPDE is not relevant to me, but the fact that they have no PTM to steady their car means a lot.
Before the stick shift GT3 came out recently, knowing what I know about C7 Z06s I think my choice would have been for a C7 Grand Sport with manual.
Now that the GT3 is stick and Porsche has figured out the oiling issues with the post Mezger engine architecture, it's hard to deny it is a good choice. Why not go with the 3,100 lb naturally aspirated car that has roughly the same performance on paper as a ZR1?
I m not following you here regarding roughly the same performance. Basic math tells me that at the same power to weight ratio 3600 lbs car needs 577hp if 3115 lbs car needs 500hp. ZR1 is easily 200hp more. So how is it the same performance?
991.2 GT3 manual traps 126mph in pdk form. Stick will probably be 1-2 mph less and around 11.2-11.3s. ZR1 is easily 10.5s or less and around 134-135mph in M7. Thats a substantial difference.
i dont think the new GT3 can even keep up with overheating Z06 (unless it overheats).
It is straightforward to see that you were not driving at full tilt or you were driving a modified Z. Cup 2s overheat on the Z well before the 10 minute mark and the car heatsoaks continuously. Great drivers put the fastest time down in lap 2 or 3 and don't have enough fuel on board to do 26 laps on any course.
There is no destroying in HPDE. If you are a good driver you would make a living out of it. Some folks are simply tuning their cars in HPDE's or working out bugs. If you pass them it means nothing. The only comparison that makes any sense is that of drivers in a regulated GT3 class.
It is also a pure waste of time seeing an HPDE video of someone else, especially when they use traction control. I have far more respect for drivers of older P cars that wrestle a rear engine car that's fully mechanical. Whether they "win" or not in HPDE is not relevant to me, but the fact that they have no PTM to steady their car means a lot.
Keep changing your argument so you have something to complain about, we know you come here with an ax to grind against the C7. The car was on Pirelli scrubs, AP Racing brakes, DSC Sport controller, and with a decent driver at the wheel. You made the comment that the car was so heavy it couldn't maintain pace after a couple laps so I gave you an example of it maintaining pace with a 997 Cup in very capable hands for many laps late in a session.
Here's the lap report from that session in case anyone is interested.
Keep changing your argument so you have something to complain about, we know you come here with an ax to grind against the C7. The car was on Pirelli scrubs, AP Racing brakes, DSC Sport controller, and with a decent driver at the wheel. You made the comment that the car was so heavy it couldn't maintain pace after a couple laps so I gave you an example of it maintaining pace with a 997 Cup in very capable hands for many laps late in a session.
Here's the lap report from that session in case anyone is interested.
Awesome, that is pretty consistent across the board. I would expect a drop off due to overheating near the end but a few 1:15's proved overwise. Any cooling mods?
Awesome, that is pretty consistent across the board. I would expect a drop off due to overheating near the end but a few 1:15's proved overwise. Any cooling mods?
I m not following you here regarding roughly the same performance. Basic math tells me that at the same power to weight ratio 3600 lbs car needs 577hp if 3115 lbs car needs 500hp. ZR1 is easily 200hp more. So how is it the same performance?
991.2 GT3 manual traps 126mph in pdk form. Stick will probably be 1-2 mph less and around 11.2-11.3s. ZR1 is easily 10.5s or less and around 134-135mph in M7. Thats a substantial difference.
i dont think the new GT3 can even keep up with overheating Z06 (unless it overheats).
The 991.2 GT3 was only 0.25 seconds slower than the C7 Z06 at Laguna Seca in Motor Trend's comparison. How come, since the power to weight ratio is so much better for the Corvette? The GT3 puts power down better, it's well sorted, plus its performance is more consistent. I expect the RS will keep up with the ZR1 in 1 minute and 30 seconds of comparison track time, and probably be quicker in Nurburgring like 7 minute comparisons.
The GT3 was also faster than my C7 Z in the 1.5 mile run. I understand the GT3 launches very predictably, so in your average 0-60 or stop light pull you may lose to one quite easily.
Originally Posted by Poor-sha
Keep changing your argument so you have something to complain about, we know you come here with an ax to grind against the C7. The car was on Pirelli scrubs, AP Racing brakes, DSC Sport controller, and with a decent driver at the wheel. You made the comment that the car was so heavy it couldn't maintain pace after a couple laps so I gave you an example of it maintaining pace with a 997 Cup in very capable hands for many laps late in a session.
Here's the lap report from that session in case anyone is interested.
In fact, you have shown that I'm right. You don't run Cup 2's and in fact have at least $15k in mods.
It's not surprising at all that you can do a similar time in a heavily modded modern Corvette compared to a decade old Porsche driven in an HPDE environment.
Your statements are not true of a showroom floor C7 Z06 nor is the comparison adequate given HPDE environment.
Even if a modern moded 6 figure Corvette can do the same lap time as a decade old Porsche that's meant to run for 50+ race hours, it's not really surprising to me. My LT4 lasted only 25 hours in HPDE, not actual racing.
For the record I don't have an axe to grind against the C7. I find the Z51 and the Grand Sport versions to be great value.
The 991.2 GT3 was only 0.25 seconds slower than the C7 Z06 at Laguna Seca in Motor Trend's comparison. How come, since the power to weight ratio is so much better for the Corvette? The GT3 puts power down better, it's well sorted, plus its performance is more consistent. I expect the RS will keep up with the ZR1 in 1 minute and 30 seconds of comparison track time, and probably be quicker in Nurburgring like 7 minute comparisons.
The GT3 was also faster than my C7 Z in the 1.5 mile run. I understand the GT3 launches very predictably, so in your average 0-60 or stop light pull you may lose to one quite easily.
In fact, you have shown that I'm right. You don't run Cup 2's and in fact have at least $15k in mods.
It's not surprising at all that you can do a similar time in a heavily modded modern Corvette compared to a decade old Porsche driven in an HPDE environment.
Your statements are not true of a showroom floor C7 Z06 nor is the comparison adequate given HPDE environment.
Even if a modern moded 6 figure Corvette can do the same lap time as a decade old Porsche that's meant to run for 50+ race hours, it's not really surprising to me. My LT4 lasted only 25 hours in HPDE, not actual racing.
For the record I don't have an axe to grind against the C7. I find the Z51 and the Grand Sport versions to be great value.
i m actually curious about what you meant that your LT4 lasted 25 hours. I am not being sarcastic at all, can you please share your experiences with Z06?
Well, probably because this is a Vette forum and most here are Vette people, so you're fighting an uphill battle there.
And you can't forget the subjective "Porsche is ugly" comment that holds no weight when it comes to track performance. That one pops up all the time.
I agree, though, if I had the money, the GT3 is a seriously nice choice.
It probably gives a better pure driving experience, given the engineering advances.
I'd always try to start with the lightest car available.
Can't find fault with the ZR1, however, which is probably a better choice to drive to and from the road course and on a daily basis.
I can'r imagine anyone saying a modern Porsche 911 is ugly. They are financially ugly (to buy and maintain) for sure, but ugly to drive and look at, um no.
Have you seen the ZR1?! Adam West must be thrilled that the Bat-Mobile has been updated.
The thing for me and Porsche is that no matter how wealthy I become in time, I'm not sure I'll ever be willing to **** away money like that. The variants that compare favorably in performance to say a lightly modified $65K C7 GS cost 2-3x as much to buy, and probably 5-10x more to maintain. The value just isn't there for me.
i m actually curious about what you meant that your LT4 lasted 25 hours. I am not being sarcastic at all, can you please share your experiences with Z06?
I wouldn't be happy either if the engine in my car broke after the equivalent of about 8 track days.
05-21-2018, 10:15 PM
