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Old 05-13-2018, 06:08 PM   #1  
Sunvox
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Default Porsche guy needs convincing.

Ok. I admit it's a first world spoiled old guy problem, but I race in PCA with an '04 Boxster and own a Cayman R, BUT I'm thinking it's time to try something from the good 'ole US of A and buy myself a ZR1. First problem is getting in line, BUT I'm really worried I won't like it 'cuz I'm a mid-engine snob. Has anyone out there driven a ZR1 AND a Porsche that can speak to the relative behavior of this American Super Car?
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:45 PM   #2  
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I think you should wait for the C8 honestly.

I think the ZR1 is the most badass FE manual trans, rear engine car ever built and will probably retain that title from here on out as cars become more digital/ AWD/ DCT/ etc...

However good it's lap times are though, it does it thru brute strength not finesse.

Even though the C8 Z51 will almost certainly be slower around a track than the C7 ZR1, I don't think driving dynamics are going to be comparable.

Good luck!



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Old 05-13-2018, 06:50 PM   #3  
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Your cayman weighs 500-600 lbs less than ZR1. As I was saying in the other C&D thread, you cant really cheat the law of physics by adding more power. I honestly dont think you can enjoy this car as much as you enjoy your cayman. I drove several caymans, they are toy cars - very tossable. I also drove 4 Z06s and they are not tossable at all. Very hard to control at limit (or even close to it). Not forgiving once you lose the control. You could give the cayman to a person (example my wife) who never drove a car in auto cross or track and she could probably manage it in the first lap close to the limit (her limit not yours of course). Whereas with ZR1 or even Z06, there is no way, she would just loose it in the second turn and hit the wall.
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:00 PM   #4  
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I'm also going to add right here and now that the C8 is going to out Porsche, Porsche, when it comes to driving dynamics. Chevrolet is going to have a $75K ME car that will run circles around anything from Porsche that you can buy new for under $200K, and it's going to be reliable and inexpensive to be serviced as well.

You'll also be able to check your own oil but I digress....
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:17 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
Ok. I admit it's a first world spoiled old guy problem, but I race in PCA with an '04 Boxster and own a Cayman R, BUT I'm thinking it's time to try something from the good 'ole US of A and buy myself a ZR1. First problem is getting in line, BUT I'm really worried I won't like it 'cuz I'm a mid-engine snob. Has anyone out there driven a ZR1 AND a Porsche that can speak to the relative behavior of this American Super Car?
You like to race so youíll love the power of the ZR1.
Sign up for a course at Spring Mountain to get a taste of the C7 driving dynamics and then make your decision knowing that the ZR1 will be ďall that and a bag of chips (or 300 more hp...yippee!).

Send a pm to Poor-sha to ask his thoughts.
He has a ZR1 arriving in the near future and will be tracking the car; he has a thread in this forum that you should follow/subscribe to - ďWhoís ready for track testing?Ē

Last edited by Vernon; 05-13-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:39 PM   #6  
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I was actually looking for a used Porsche and after I drove a very nice 928 i thought, "a Corvette is similar to this car and I can buy a new one for less."

So I drove one and liked it better than the Porsche.

You probably are not going to be able to test drive a ZR1, but you should be able to test drive a Z06 or at least a GS. That should give you an indication of whether or not you'll be able to adjust to the switch.

As far as the Corvette relying on brute power in order to lay down these Super Car beating times, I just don't think this is true; magazines have been staging these comparison tests among a gaggle of cars for a while now and I started noticing the the C6 Z06 was frequently beating super-high end exotics on road courses despite having a manual transmission and one of if not the slowest acceleration tests of the bunch.

That can mean only one thing: the Vette was outhandling the McLaren and the Ferrari and whatever else they were throwing at it.

Despite the 'Ring lap times Porsche put down, I think the ZR1's lap at VIR is more representative of where the car is in the performance car universe beating the $ Half Million Ford GT by over a second.
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:41 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
I'm also going to add right here and now that the C8 is going to out Porsche, Porsche, when it comes to driving dynamics. Chevrolet is going to have a $75K ME car that will run circles around anything from Porsche that you can buy new for under $200K, and it's going to be reliable and inexpensive to be serviced as well.

You'll also be able to check your own oil but I digress....
This is comical... Like you have any clue how the C8 is going to perform against the 992 Porsche. Porsches will always cost more than a Chevrolet... It's starts with the service department, and then interior quality is not going to compete. However corvette has always competed above significantly above their price range when it came to all out performance!
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You like to race so youíll love the power of the ZR1.
Sign up for a course at Spring Mountain to get a taste of the C7 driving dynamics and then make your decision knowing that the ZR1 will be ďall that and a bag of chips (or 300 more hp...yippee!).
Agreed, huge step up from Cayman, but considerably more challenging to drive fast.

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Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
Ok. I admit it's a first world spoiled old guy problem, but I race in PCA with an '04 Boxster and own a Cayman R, BUT I'm thinking it's time to try something from the good 'ole US of A and buy myself a ZR1. First problem is getting in line, BUT I'm really worried I won't like it 'cuz I'm a mid-engine snob. Has anyone out there driven a ZR1 AND a Porsche that can speak to the relative behavior of this American Super Car?
I think you'd love the ZR1, best bang for the buck for sure!

Good luck in your decision!

Best Regards,
Dave
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:45 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
I'm also going to add right here and now that the C8 is going to out Porsche, Porsche, when it comes to driving dynamics. Chevrolet is going to have a $75K ME car that will run circles around anything from Porsche that you can buy new for under $200K, and it's going to be reliable and inexpensive to be serviced as well.

You'll also be able to check your own oil but I digress....
I have driven the Porsche on the Track and have a 2019 GS. Both are amazing cars. Porsche 911 S was very quick in the turns and the car was very intuitive around the track. It stuck like clue. GS is very strong, but not as fast out of the turn IMO. But the difference is minimal. I think the new C8 will be north of $75K, those thinking it starts at that price are fooling themselves. It will be the base model as well. Two years later, maybe a GS and that will be north of $100K. Only downside is NO Manual Trans for the C8. At least Porsche is keeping it alive. GL
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:51 PM   #9  
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Originally Posted by flyforfun View Post
I have driven the Porsche on the Track and have a 2019 GS. Both are amazing cars. Porsche 911 S was very quick in the turns and the car was very intuitive around the track. It stuck like clue. GS is very strong, but not as fast out of the turn IMO. But the difference is minimal. I think the new C8 will be north of $75K, those thinking it starts at that price are fooling themselves. It will be the base model as well. Two years later, maybe a GS and that will be north of $100K. Only downside is NO Manual Trans for the C8. At least Porsche is keeping it alive. GL
So what are the respective lap times?
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:52 PM   #10  
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Here's a link to one of Poor-sha's threads when he's driving his C7 Z06.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...3-cup-car.html

Here's the Youtube link in the thread...



See the predator's wee snack start at about 14:05...ummm, yummy!

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Old 05-13-2018, 08:50 PM   #11  
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Wow! Thanks guys for the awesome input!!

I have driven C7s. I am fortunate in that I am a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club and have driven a Z06 on track. Honestly, I don't care for the Z06 handling. What I'm wondering is whether the ZR1 represents a true leap in handling. The reviews seem to indicate that the down force is the big difference. Is it possible the ZR1 is close to the Porsche Cayman in terms of "nimbleness" because of the down force generators?? How different is the ZR1 from the Z06?
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:08 PM   #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
Wow! Thanks guys for the awesome input!!

I have driven C7s. I am fortunate in that I am a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club and have driven a Z06 on track. Honestly, I don't care for the Z06 handling. What I'm wondering is whether the ZR1 represents a true leap in handling. The reviews seem to indicate that the down force is the big difference. Is it possible the ZR1 is close to the Porsche Cayman in terms of "nimbleness" because of the down force generators?? How different is the ZR1 from the Z06?
Follow Poor-sha.
Heíll have excellent comparative feedback once he receives and preps his ZR1(his C7 Z06 vs his C7 ZR1).

If the handling of the Z06 didnít appeal to you, the ZR1 is likely the wrong candidate. The upcoming Cayman GT4, which Iím sure youíre aware of (anticipated 4l six will be sweet) would probably be more satisfying.

Or bite the bullet and get the ZR1 and venture on a new learning curve for the track.

Read the Car and Driver ZR1 article scanned by Snorman.

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Old 05-13-2018, 09:27 PM   #13  
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Originally Posted by stevebz06 View Post
I was actually looking for a used Porsche and after I drove a very nice 928 i thought, "a Corvette is similar to this car and I can buy a new one for less."

So I drove one and liked it better than the Porsche.

You probably are not going to be able to test drive a ZR1, but you should be able to test drive a Z06 or at least a GS. That should give you an indication of whether or not you'll be able to adjust to the switch.

As far as the Corvette relying on brute power in order to lay down these Super Car beating times, I just don't think this is true; magazines have been staging these comparison tests among a gaggle of cars for a while now and I started noticing the the C6 Z06 was frequently beating super-high end exotics on road courses despite having a manual transmission and one of if not the slowest acceleration tests of the bunch.

That can mean only one thing: the Vette was outhandling the McLaren and the Ferrari and whatever else they were throwing at it.

Despite the 'Ring lap times Porsche put down, I think the ZR1's lap at VIR is more representative of where the car is in the performance car universe beating the $ Half Million Ford GT by over a second.
I don't mean to imply that a Corvette is not as fast around a track as any comparable Porsche as that just wouldn't be emperically true.

The issue is driving dynamics, actually more important if you aren't racing.

The ZR1 is a 680 rwhp 3700# brute. The Cayman R is comparably a ballerina. Making due with half the power not nearly the mechanical grip while giving the driver tremendous satisfaction while turning notably slower lap times.

The Z51/ GS is the sweet spot for a track car in the C7. I get that the ZR1 is much faster, but that isn't the point.

I suspect the track pack 400 rwhp C8 that weighs 3200# is going to be the 'driver's car' in the new Vette. Jmho.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:37 PM   #14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
Wow! Thanks guys for the awesome input!!

I have driven C7s. I am fortunate in that I am a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club and have driven a Z06 on track. Honestly, I don't care for the Z06 handling. What I'm wondering is whether the ZR1 represents a true leap in handling. The reviews seem to indicate that the down force is the big difference. Is it possible the ZR1 is close to the Porsche Cayman in terms of "nimbleness" because of the down force generators?? How different is the ZR1 from the Z06?
I think the posts below are getting on the same thing... you're currently driving a 300 hp 3000 lb car... it makes sense why you wouldn't like the Z06 (and the ZR1 while better will not be different enuogh). Frankly, you're dring a 10:1 lb per hp car and getting into a 6:1 lb per hp car... the corvette will need more brake, and will accelerate significantly quicker. Have you considered if not the GS alternative, staying with mid/rear engine and going to a GT3?

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Follow Poor-sha.
Heíll have excellent comparative feedback once he receives and preps his ZR1(his C7 Z06 vs his C7 ZR1).

If the handling of the Z06 didnít appeal to you, the ZR1 is likely the wrong candidate. The upcoming Cayman GT4, which Iím sure youíre aware of (anticipated 4l six will be sweet) would probably be more satisfying.

Or bite the bullet and get the ZR1 and venture on a new learning curve for the track.

Read the Car and Driver ZR1 article scanned by Snorman.
Agree completely!

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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
I don't mean to imply that a Corvette is not as fast around a track as any comparable Porsche as that just wouldn't be emperically true.

The issue is driving dynamics, actually more important if you aren't racing.

The ZR1 is a 680 rwhp 3700# brute. The Cayman R is comparably a ballerina. Making due with half the power not nearly the mechanical grip while giving the driver tremendous satisfaction while turning notably slower lap times.

The Z51/ GS is the sweet spot for a track car in the C7. I get that the ZR1 is much faster, but that isn't the point.

I suspect the track pack 400 rwhp C8 that weighs 3200# is going to be the 'driver's car' in the new Vette. Jmho.
Echo these thoughts, with the exception of the C8 weighing 3200lbs... I for one would LOVE THIS... but the 'early' narratives have been stating the C8 will weigh 200 more lbs than the C7 chassis. (remains to be seen).

Best Regards,
Dave

Last edited by Dave Schotz; 05-13-2018 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:50 PM   #15  
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I'm also going to add right here and now that the C8 is going to out Porsche, Porsche, when it comes to driving dynamics. Chevrolet is going to have a $75K ME car that will run circles around anything from Porsche that you can buy new for under $200K, and it's going to be reliable and inexpensive to be serviced as well.

You'll also be able to check your own oil but I digress....
so you have driven the C8? Cool. Tell us more...
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:46 PM   #16  
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Maybe what you need to do is cough up the cash and just go to Spring Mountain and drive the ZR1 for 2-3 days and make your own decision. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, it's just I myself would not take the word of someone else on the internet to make a $150,000 decisions for me as they may believe the Z06 and ZR1 are different for different reasons.

It's possible you will find someone with a ZR1 willing to let you take it out for a day and good luck with that approach.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:56 PM   #17  
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Unfortunately you cannot take the ZR1 school at Spring Mountain without being a ZR1 owner.
S.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:03 PM   #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
Unfortunately you cannot take the ZR1 school at Spring Mountain without being a ZR1 owner.
S.
Well now I guess he will have to find someone willing to track their car or wait for SM to come to their senses and let others pay for the class
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:07 PM   #19  
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Originally Posted by Sunvox View Post
Ok. I admit it's a first world spoiled old guy problem, but I race in PCA with an '04 Boxster and own a Cayman R, BUT I'm thinking it's time to try something from the good 'ole US of A and buy myself a ZR1. First problem is getting in line, BUT I'm really worried I won't like it 'cuz I'm a mid-engine snob. Has anyone out there driven a ZR1 AND a Porsche that can speak to the relative behavior of this American Super Car?
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:02 AM   #20  
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I am a Porsche guy at heart, raced PCA in a 911, chief HPDE instructor ... My Z06 is very fast, sounds awesome, has torque and is light. That said, the fit and finish pretty much suck, and you'll need to put more $$ into making it track ready. Porsche over engineers, Chevy mass produces to save a dime. I still have concerns about long term ownership, every time I track it, I find more things that need $$. I will eat tires/brakes like a mad man, but that comes with more speed. This will make your cayman feel like Prius. My biggest fear is as the G meter goes up even a dry sump from Chevy is inadequate and then it goes boom. You'll never have that fear with a Porsche.
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