ZR1 vs Porsche GT Cars - Track Consummable/Maintenance Cost
05-27-2018, 11:50 AM
#61
Burning Brakes
It's not above fast 'lap times'. It's about consistency.
Consistency wins endurance races. Not best pole times.
As a Z06 owner, I will put my money on the GT3 all day every day.
Consistency wins endurance races. Not best pole times.
As a Z06 owner, I will put my money on the GT3 all day every day.
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rudutch (05-28-2018)
05-27-2018, 02:54 PM
#62
Instructor
While all of the debate in entertaining, I think we are comparing two beautiful cars for the track or street. I’ve raced against both, and I can’t think of a driver who wasn’t a great guy or a car that wasn’t fun and fast. Both are awesome, so both are winners in my book.
Dave, what SCCA Region was your homebase? Sopac? And what years?
Dave, what SCCA Region was your homebase? Sopac? And what years?
05-27-2018, 03:32 PM
#63
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
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You guys are funny, seriously!
Let's have both run stock to stock for 30 mins, and see which runs the quicker overall time. Sorry, I've owned, driven and raced them all, and you couldn't even track a stock Z06 or GS in 85 degree plus temps without changing the brake fluid.
The ZR1 will be faster due to 200 more hp, the others wouldn't. And Randy beat the Z06 in gt3 at willow springs, for another comparison.
Best Regards,
Dave
Not sure what being a Corvette or a Porsche has to do with how often the brake fluid needs to be changed. All brake fluid pretty much absorbs moisture at the same rates and Porsche doesn't have any secret method of sealing their brake system from moisture. They do it the same way every other manufacturer in the world does it. I change my fluid whenever it has been more than 3 weeks between events. If I owned a Porsche I would still do the same.
My M7 Z06 will run with any GT3 as long as we are equal drivers. If the GT3 driver is better than me he would still be better than me if we swapped cars. It isn't bothered by ambient temps below 95 degrees and I don't know if it is in temps above that because I don't go to the track when temps are that high as it is absolutely miserable running in any car in those temps. As far as I am concerned anybody who goes to the track in temps above 95 degrees should have their head examined unless they are being paid to be there.
As far as other maintenance the Corvette is pretty much a drive it and forget it type of car and has been for a long time. On cars that see below a certain mileage per year that means one oil change per year and cars above that point it probably means 2 changes per year. They can really take a beating and keep on running.
You may pay a Corvette Tax if you take it to certain shops for maintenance but from what I have read the Corvette Tax isn't anywhere near as high as the Porsche Tax.
By the way I know there are a couple of special tools for Corvettes but what is that 6 ft long wrench that I see some Porsche owners carting around at the track?
Bill
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Suns_PSD (05-28-2018)
05-27-2018, 06:21 PM
#64
Agreed, good points. Some of the original question had high level compared 'Porsche GT Car Consumables', so was using both GT3 & GT3RS.
You're right, RS is closer to $100K more... GT3 is closer to $35K more.
Weight is published at 3153 for the RS vs 3660 for the ZR1.
Definitely wouldn't want to replace PCCB's, at $20K for the set agreed. But they seem to last an awfully long time. For dedicated track use, most seem to spec Iron Brakes.
Understood, just using the latest car lap vs. the latest... the '16 RS (991.1) is significantly slower then the current GT3 (991.2) and new RS...
As for tracking the current car, I don't own one, know but my Dad has a c7 Z06, brake fluid was the first thing we changed out. If you're going to do any track time, in the bowtie, you need to swap the fluid. And we tried tracking it, it AZ heat... just not able to run 4 laps without going into limp mode (his is an A8).
When we first debated, I thought you were a rational person... you've proved me wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if it's a language barrier, or just being hard headed... but if you actually read your own links, you'd see the GT2RS did not run the CUP 2 R. Only the GT3RS did. My quote mentions they 'FIT' both cars, because they use the same sized tires! The GT2RS comes with 'new spec' (N2) Cup 2's... which is just the next generation, but they are not the Cup 2 R's.
So yes, my house is clean, and yours continues to be misled. But I honestly am going to back away from this... somehow I've become a Porsche fanboy, even though I race a corvette today. Just sharing the facts that some were asking genuinely about.
You were quoting all over the place the GT3 weight 3400lbs.. I had to show you in your own italian or french brochure it showed 3100 lbs...
I'm not sure what you're trying to share here... both (IMO) GM & Porsche have recommended Tracking their GT & Z cars, and would at least 'imply' they are covered under warranty. This isn't a concern for me, but it may be for you.
I sure hope the rest of the forum isn't 'We'... I think you have a different point of you. The items you mention, are absolutely on Constraint, I agree... just as the Manual ZR1 was and the A8 Z06 was when it first came up. Suppliers do end up catching up with demand.
Yes, I've changed my own oil both at 500 miles and at 1500 miles, cost is right at about a $100 for oil, filter and washers.
I think your comment on more expensive in the ends has a lot of merit, honestly... if you're actually going to track the car as a 'dedicated' track car... the significantly lower cost of entry sure allows for a lot of maintenance. Maybe to answer the OP original question, I would say GT car vs. Z car... the GT car is going to hold up better for dedicated track duty with stock parts. I actually think the better track car, if we're going to do a Corvette would be he GS. Which I'll go ahead and throw this completely for a loop, the GS is closest to what I believe the z06 should have been... Normally Aspirated for lap after lap consistency. Just needs another 50 to 75 HP and would be an amazing track dedicated car.
I'm guessing you haven't driven the new GT3 yet. The GT3 is as good or better as a Daily than any corvette... they've done an amazing job with the newest one. Both cars feature every item above you've listed with the exception of Targa top and Heads up. I personally wish the ZR1 was Fixed roof like the previous, but GM is out to sell 'everyone' a car instead of a select group... so they have Targa, as well as Convertible too. To your point though, the RS, with twice the spring rate and all spherical jointed suspension, has got to be rougher if was to be a DD.
Alright, I've tried to provide objective data on this matter... Even if it's not all the most popular...
Tele... I'm not responding to you any longer... we again can just agree to disagree!
You're right, RS is closer to $100K more... GT3 is closer to $35K more.
Weight is published at 3153 for the RS vs 3660 for the ZR1.
Definitely wouldn't want to replace PCCB's, at $20K for the set agreed. But they seem to last an awfully long time. For dedicated track use, most seem to spec Iron Brakes.
Understood, just using the latest car lap vs. the latest... the '16 RS (991.1) is significantly slower then the current GT3 (991.2) and new RS...
As for tracking the current car, I don't own one, know but my Dad has a c7 Z06, brake fluid was the first thing we changed out. If you're going to do any track time, in the bowtie, you need to swap the fluid. And we tried tracking it, it AZ heat... just not able to run 4 laps without going into limp mode (his is an A8).
When we first debated, I thought you were a rational person... you've proved me wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if it's a language barrier, or just being hard headed... but if you actually read your own links, you'd see the GT2RS did not run the CUP 2 R. Only the GT3RS did. My quote mentions they 'FIT' both cars, because they use the same sized tires! The GT2RS comes with 'new spec' (N2) Cup 2's... which is just the next generation, but they are not the Cup 2 R's.
So yes, my house is clean, and yours continues to be misled. But I honestly am going to back away from this... somehow I've become a Porsche fanboy, even though I race a corvette today. Just sharing the facts that some were asking genuinely about.
You were quoting all over the place the GT3 weight 3400lbs.. I had to show you in your own italian or french brochure it showed 3100 lbs...
I'm not sure what you're trying to share here... both (IMO) GM & Porsche have recommended Tracking their GT & Z cars, and would at least 'imply' they are covered under warranty. This isn't a concern for me, but it may be for you.
I sure hope the rest of the forum isn't 'We'... I think you have a different point of you. The items you mention, are absolutely on Constraint, I agree... just as the Manual ZR1 was and the A8 Z06 was when it first came up. Suppliers do end up catching up with demand.
Yes, I've changed my own oil both at 500 miles and at 1500 miles, cost is right at about a $100 for oil, filter and washers.
I think your comment on more expensive in the ends has a lot of merit, honestly... if you're actually going to track the car as a 'dedicated' track car... the significantly lower cost of entry sure allows for a lot of maintenance. Maybe to answer the OP original question, I would say GT car vs. Z car... the GT car is going to hold up better for dedicated track duty with stock parts. I actually think the better track car, if we're going to do a Corvette would be he GS. Which I'll go ahead and throw this completely for a loop, the GS is closest to what I believe the z06 should have been... Normally Aspirated for lap after lap consistency. Just needs another 50 to 75 HP and would be an amazing track dedicated car.
I'm guessing you haven't driven the new GT3 yet. The GT3 is as good or better as a Daily than any corvette... they've done an amazing job with the newest one. Both cars feature every item above you've listed with the exception of Targa top and Heads up. I personally wish the ZR1 was Fixed roof like the previous, but GM is out to sell 'everyone' a car instead of a select group... so they have Targa, as well as Convertible too. To your point though, the RS, with twice the spring rate and all spherical jointed suspension, has got to be rougher if was to be a DD.
Alright, I've tried to provide objective data on this matter... Even if it's not all the most popular...
Tele... I'm not responding to you any longer... we again can just agree to disagree!
Whether you respond or not is irrelevant at this point. This was never about the two of us in the first place. You make your contributions to the forum and so do I. The two of us and hopefully others are all the better for it.
Good things came out of this also thanks to you:
Of the five/six eyebrows raising ring techniques employed by Porsche to “smoke” the ring you correctly substantiated with pictures there were indeed two seats in the GT2RS when I erroneously griped about only one seat present for duty. I equate this whooper of mine to yours..that is, insisting the 911 GT cars are warranted for track when the very opposite is true.
Ultimately if you think about it this back and forth was about condescending. For all the niceties we exchanged and the very civil exchanges we had, in time it transpired you were not able to let go to the seasoned 911 tracker condescending on the seemingly English impaired Corvette pupil… you still don’t get it.. the more weight, power, warranty, tires, options vs customs rationalizations you present in favor of the GTs the more I research to discover they are not true.
I know you “cannot concede” but at least a bit of introspective and acknowledgment?
Take the weight discussion as an example:
You were quoting all over the place the GT3 weight 3400lbs.. I had to show you in your own italian or french brochure it showed 3100 lbs...
I went to great lengths in explaining the crucial difference between DIN and SAE. I noted to you that spec’ing in DIN is perfectly legitimate… until you start the compare game.. with a SAE car like the ZR1 AND inevitably having to face the “EPA ripper” for official SAE weighting and emission measurements.
BTW those pesky EPA folks don’t trust self reporting… and don’t agree to disagree…
Same applies to the ZR1 of course..
Anyways I have news for you Dave. The GT2RS, GT3, and a slew of other 911s faced the EPA scale on December 2017.
The GT3 went in as a 3153 DIN dry weight car and it came out as a US Curb of 3325. Does that number reminds you anything? Probably not ..it is 10 pounds off my estimation you valiantly condescended in our “learning” exchanges..
The GT2RS..in as a lightweight feather DIN 3240 out as a US Curb 3465
NOW we can compare with the SAE ZR1 (LZ1) 3560; correct?
Delta GT3 ZR1 235
Delta GT2RS ZR1 95
A far cry from the 500 pounds someone mentioned…
Tires…
When we first debated, I thought you were a rational person... you've proved me wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if it's a language barrier, or just being hard headed... but if you actually read your own links, you'd see the GT2RS did not run the CUP 2 R. Only the GT3RS did. My quote mentions they 'FIT' both cars, because they use the same sized tires! The GT2RS comes with 'new spec' (N2) Cup 2's... which is just the next generation, but they are not the Cup 2 R's.
Again Dave..context..context.. the point I was making is that these tires (either N2s or Rs) cannot be fitted to a stock car ready to be driven home..again you fail to appreciate some objections already raised that the GT2RS ring car was marketed as road worthy when it is not..
That said I did fail to copy/paste Michelin tech description of Cup 2Rs: Tread compounds of the same family as Porsche Cup N2 racing slick tires
Consider this a friendly tribute to your acknowledgements on weissach and other constraints…which are really not constraints but weight alterations from original specs…AND I let it go…
To language barriers and hard headness..!
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Z06Norway (05-29-2018)
05-28-2018, 12:39 AM
#65
Drifting
While all of the debate in entertaining, I think we are comparing two beautiful cars for the track or street. I’ve raced against both, and I can’t think of a driver who wasn’t a great guy or a car that wasn’t fun and fast. Both are awesome, so both are winners in my book.
Dave, what SCCA Region was your homebase? Sopac? And what years?
Dave,
Not sure what being a Corvette or a Porsche has to do with how often the brake fluid needs to be changed. All brake fluid pretty much absorbs moisture at the same rates and Porsche doesn't have any secret method of sealing their brake system from moisture. They do it the same way every other manufacturer in the world does it. I change my fluid whenever it has been more than 3 weeks between events. If I owned a Porsche I would still do the same.
Not sure what being a Corvette or a Porsche has to do with how often the brake fluid needs to be changed. All brake fluid pretty much absorbs moisture at the same rates and Porsche doesn't have any secret method of sealing their brake system from moisture. They do it the same way every other manufacturer in the world does it. I change my fluid whenever it has been more than 3 weeks between events. If I owned a Porsche I would still do the same.
My M7 Z06 will run with any GT3 as long as we are equal drivers. If the GT3 driver is better than me he would still be better than me if we swapped cars. It isn't bothered by ambient temps below 95 degrees and I don't know if it is in temps above that because I don't go to the track when temps are that high as it is absolutely miserable running in any car in those temps. As far as I am concerned anybody who goes to the track in temps above 95 degrees should have their head examined unless they are being paid to be there.
You're still off on the weights and tires... but that will come out soon enough I'm sure. I've weighed my '18 GT3... Porsche says 3116, my car weighed 3100 empty and 3255 with the 90L tank full. Best Regards,
Dave
05-28-2018, 01:29 AM
#66
Scraping the splitter.
All the arguments...
It's expensive to track these cars. Period. Most of the internet racers don't know this.
The biggest line item is registration and track insurance, followed by allocation of brake pads, tires, fuel, fluids, lodging and transportation costs.
I stopped following the costs because it's a downer in a hobby that is mostly fulfilling. But figure it's $1500-2000/day to run at this level (and $700 of that is event registration and insurance).
There are various solutions for brake pads and rotors and tires that bring down consumable costs.
S.
It's expensive to track these cars. Period. Most of the internet racers don't know this.
The biggest line item is registration and track insurance, followed by allocation of brake pads, tires, fuel, fluids, lodging and transportation costs.
I stopped following the costs because it's a downer in a hobby that is mostly fulfilling. But figure it's $1500-2000/day to run at this level (and $700 of that is event registration and insurance).
There are various solutions for brake pads and rotors and tires that bring down consumable costs.
S.
Last edited by Snorman; 05-28-2018 at 01:29 AM.
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05-28-2018, 06:30 AM
#67
Since I have an allocation for the ZR1 I have obviously been looking to learn more. I downloaded the 2019 Corvette Owner's Manual and found these two items in it under the section called "Track Events and Competitive Driving", which are somewhat surprising:
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
05-28-2018, 07:18 AM
#68
Le Mans Master
An acquaintance of mine recently had his 911 spark plugs changed. Cost him a cool $3k as they had to drop his engine for access.
There are lots of rich guys around here! I can certainly afford to write a check for $3k for something that typically costs me $40 and an hour, but I simply refuse.
There are lots of rich guys around here! I can certainly afford to write a check for $3k for something that typically costs me $40 and an hour, but I simply refuse.
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05-28-2018, 07:33 AM
#69
Le Mans Master
Real race brake fluid attracts quite a bit of water is my understanding.
I get that Porsche does not insist that you swap it to a street fluid come but I also get that more most porsches get a fraction of the mileage that a Corvette does over its lifetime.
Either way, the effect on the brake system is the same for both vehicles so the difference is what the manufacturer is willing to endure in terms of warrantable brake system component damage. And also loss of general reliability over the lifetime of the car.
Frankly anyone that is tracking needs to be flushing the brake system every couple of weeks anyways if you drive fast.
I get that Porsche does not insist that you swap it to a street fluid come but I also get that more most porsches get a fraction of the mileage that a Corvette does over its lifetime.
Either way, the effect on the brake system is the same for both vehicles so the difference is what the manufacturer is willing to endure in terms of warrantable brake system component damage. And also loss of general reliability over the lifetime of the car.
Frankly anyone that is tracking needs to be flushing the brake system every couple of weeks anyways if you drive fast.
05-28-2018, 08:22 AM
#70
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks Grapeman, agreed! SoPac and AZ Regions, from 1992 - 2004 in Solo, and 2004 - 2008 Club Racing. Then went onto NASA from 2008 to current.
Hi Bill, The Difference is, the Porsche OEM fill is intended for the track. For the Porsche, you just have to change the fluid once a year. But again, for the corvette... that's a relatively low cost maintenance item.
Agreed, with the exception of extreme temperatures, the better driver in either car is going to always be quicker, and both are great cars.
LOL, I resemble that remark! Yes, that's the 'Torque Wrench' necessary to remove the center lock hubs... and 420 Ft Lbs!
You're still off on the weights and tires... but that will come out soon enough I'm sure. I've weighed my '18 GT3... Porsche says 3116, my car weighed 3100 empty and 3255 with the 90L tank full.
Best Regards,
Dave
Hi Bill, The Difference is, the Porsche OEM fill is intended for the track. For the Porsche, you just have to change the fluid once a year. But again, for the corvette... that's a relatively low cost maintenance item.
Agreed, with the exception of extreme temperatures, the better driver in either car is going to always be quicker, and both are great cars.
LOL, I resemble that remark! Yes, that's the 'Torque Wrench' necessary to remove the center lock hubs... and 420 Ft Lbs!
You're still off on the weights and tires... but that will come out soon enough I'm sure. I've weighed my '18 GT3... Porsche says 3116, my car weighed 3100 empty and 3255 with the 90L tank full.Best Regards,
Dave
is the 3270 lbs motor trend publishing the real world weight for 6MT GT3? Is that the figure to compare with ZR1’s 3580 lbs? Or is it 3116 lbs vs 3580 lbs.
if a 3270 lbs car makes 540hp (I know about the underrated engine and that it makes more than 500hp), 3580 lbs car needs 590hp. ZR1 makes easily 800 hp in real life (same underrated argument) if you are near the coast, sea level, temps are normal 70-80F.
these two cars are not in the same performance class it seems, no?
I think the new GT3 with more hp, better aero and handling is probably close to the Z06 though but I still wouldnt say better. They are very close. In a straight line or daily driving z06 will probably be much faster. In a track, gt3 is probably easier to drive but with equal drivers and if the drivers are good and can handle the power, z06 is faster in track but if the drivers are amateur, he will probably put down faster times in gt3 as its easier to handle.
Last edited by UnhandledException; 05-28-2018 at 08:22 AM.
05-28-2018, 08:40 AM
#71
Since I have an allocation for the ZR1 I have obviously been looking to learn more. I downloaded the 2019 Corvette Owner's Manual and found these two items in it under the section called "Track Events and Competitive Driving", which are somewhat surprising:
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
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zedbyers (05-28-2018)
05-28-2018, 08:52 AM
#72
Instructor
Originally Posted by Dave Schotz 
Thanks Grapeman, agreed! SoPac and AZ Regions, from 1992 - 2004 in Solo, and 2004 - 2008 Club Racing. Then went onto NASA from 2008 to current.
I was right after you in SoPac, up until I retired from racing and moved to Texas 2 years ago. Speaking of fast Corvettes and great drivers, did you ever race with a guy named Oli Thordarsen? A very fast Z06 in T1. He usually was the Regional Champ and a fixture at the Runoffs. Super great guy who would often beat me like a read-headed stepchild on track (I was running SP, so we were often in the same race). I also ran a few NASA events, and raced the 25 Hours at Thunderhill one year with them. Fun stuff!
Thanks Grapeman, agreed! SoPac and AZ Regions, from 1992 - 2004 in Solo, and 2004 - 2008 Club Racing. Then went onto NASA from 2008 to current.I was right after you in SoPac, up until I retired from racing and moved to Texas 2 years ago. Speaking of fast Corvettes and great drivers, did you ever race with a guy named Oli Thordarsen? A very fast Z06 in T1. He usually was the Regional Champ and a fixture at the Runoffs. Super great guy who would often beat me like a read-headed stepchild on track (I was running SP, so we were often in the same race). I also ran a few NASA events, and raced the 25 Hours at Thunderhill one year with them. Fun stuff!
05-28-2018, 08:53 AM
#73
this is about what i expected was happening in the real world. what are the differences in the engine oil though that would have Chevy suggesting you swap from one to the other? I am in southern florida and was expecting to just go with the 15W50 year round and SRF as well, but change more frequently as one should do under this type of use.
05-28-2018, 10:15 AM
#75
Instructor
05-28-2018, 10:45 AM
#77
Scraping the splitter.
Real race brake fluid attracts quite a bit of water is my understanding.
I get that Porsche does not insist that you swap it to a street fluid come but I also get that more most porsches get a fraction of the mileage that a Corvette does over its lifetime.
Either way, the effect on the brake system is the same for both vehicles so the difference is what the manufacturer is willing to endure in terms of warrantable brake system component damage. And also loss of general reliability over the lifetime of the car.
Frankly anyone that is tracking needs to be flushing the brake system every couple of weeks anyways if you drive fast.
I get that Porsche does not insist that you swap it to a street fluid come but I also get that more most porsches get a fraction of the mileage that a Corvette does over its lifetime.
Either way, the effect on the brake system is the same for both vehicles so the difference is what the manufacturer is willing to endure in terms of warrantable brake system component damage. And also loss of general reliability over the lifetime of the car.
Frankly anyone that is tracking needs to be flushing the brake system every couple of weeks anyways if you drive fast.
I ran Castrol SRF for a few years in my cars but stopped after it destroyed the calipers on my ACR. After switching to it on my Z06, I noticed weeping from the bleeder screws, even when they were properly torqued. I went to it on my ACR, and the calipers were a mess after a few weekends. Dodge actually was kind enough to replace my calipers under warranty. However, their engineers interacted with a Brembo engineer, who told them that synthetic SRF is basically incompatible with Brembo calipers and they will leak when using it.
I run factory DOT4 now with zero issues.
S.
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05-28-2018, 06:11 PM
#78
Drifting
I was right after you in SoPac, up until I retired from racing and moved to Texas 2 years ago. Speaking of fast Corvettes and great drivers, did you ever race with a guy named Oli Thordarsen? A very fast Z06 in T1. He usually was the Regional Champ and a fixture at the Runoffs. Super great guy who would often beat me like a read-headed stepchild on track (I was running SP, so we were often in the same race). I also ran a few NASA events, and raced the 25 Hours at Thunderhill one year with them. Fun stuff! [/left]
i m very confused with gt3 vs zr1 weight.
is the 3270 lbs motor trend publishing the real world weight for 6MT GT3? Is that the figure to compare with ZR1’s 3580 lbs? Or is it 3116 lbs vs 3580 lbs.
these two cars are not in the same performance class it seems, no?
I don't want to get into which car is better, I think they are all great... ok fine... I think the GT3 is 'quicker' than the Z06 on most tracks, and the ZR1 is quicker than both.
Since I have an allocation for the ZR1 I have obviously been looking to learn more. I downloaded the 2019 Corvette Owner's Manual and found these two items in it under the section called "Track Events and Competitive Driving", which are somewhat surprising:
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
Brake fluid is one of the cheapest consumables and one of the easiest to maintain.
I ran Castrol SRF for a few years in my cars but stopped after it destroyed the calipers on my ACR. After switching to it on my Z06, I noticed weeping from the bleeder screws, even when they were properly torqued. I went to it on my ACR, and the calipers were a mess after a few weekends. Dodge actually was kind enough to replace my calipers under warranty. However, their engineers interacted with a Brembo engineer, who told them that synthetic SRF is basically incompatible with Brembo calipers and they will leak when using it.
I run factory DOT4 now with zero issues.
S.
I ran Castrol SRF for a few years in my cars but stopped after it destroyed the calipers on my ACR. After switching to it on my Z06, I noticed weeping from the bleeder screws, even when they were properly torqued. I went to it on my ACR, and the calipers were a mess after a few weekends. Dodge actually was kind enough to replace my calipers under warranty. However, their engineers interacted with a Brembo engineer, who told them that synthetic SRF is basically incompatible with Brembo calipers and they will leak when using it.
I run factory DOT4 now with zero issues.
S.
this is about what i expected was happening in the real world. what are the differences in the engine oil though that would have Chevy suggesting you swap from one to the other? I am in southern florida and was expecting to just go with the 15W50 year round and SRF as well, but change more frequently as one should do under this type of use.
Best Regards,
Dave
05-28-2018, 07:48 PM
#79
Team Owner
Dave,
Not sure what being a Corvette or a Porsche has to do with how often the brake fluid needs to be changed. All brake fluid pretty much absorbs moisture at the same rates and Porsche doesn't have any secret method of sealing their brake system from moisture. They do it the same way every other manufacturer in the world does it. I change my fluid whenever it has been more than 3 weeks between events. If I owned a Porsche I would still do the same.
My M7 Z06 will run with any GT3 as long as we are equal drivers. If the GT3 driver is better than me he would still be better than me if we swapped cars. It isn't bothered by ambient temps below 95 degrees and I don't know if it is in temps above that because I don't go to the track when temps are that high as it is absolutely miserable running in any car in those temps. As far as I am concerned anybody who goes to the track in temps above 95 degrees should have their head examined unless they are being paid to be there.
As far as other maintenance the Corvette is pretty much a drive it and forget it type of car and has been for a long time. On cars that see below a certain mileage per year that means one oil change per year and cars above that point it probably means 2 changes per year. They can really take a beating and keep on running.
You may pay a Corvette Tax if you take it to certain shops for maintenance but from what I have read the Corvette Tax isn't anywhere near as high as the Porsche Tax.
By the way I know there are a couple of special tools for Corvettes but what is that 6 ft long wrench that I see some Porsche owners carting around at the track?
Bill
Not sure what being a Corvette or a Porsche has to do with how often the brake fluid needs to be changed. All brake fluid pretty much absorbs moisture at the same rates and Porsche doesn't have any secret method of sealing their brake system from moisture. They do it the same way every other manufacturer in the world does it. I change my fluid whenever it has been more than 3 weeks between events. If I owned a Porsche I would still do the same.
My M7 Z06 will run with any GT3 as long as we are equal drivers. If the GT3 driver is better than me he would still be better than me if we swapped cars. It isn't bothered by ambient temps below 95 degrees and I don't know if it is in temps above that because I don't go to the track when temps are that high as it is absolutely miserable running in any car in those temps. As far as I am concerned anybody who goes to the track in temps above 95 degrees should have their head examined unless they are being paid to be there.
As far as other maintenance the Corvette is pretty much a drive it and forget it type of car and has been for a long time. On cars that see below a certain mileage per year that means one oil change per year and cars above that point it probably means 2 changes per year. They can really take a beating and keep on running.
You may pay a Corvette Tax if you take it to certain shops for maintenance but from what I have read the Corvette Tax isn't anywhere near as high as the Porsche Tax.
By the way I know there are a couple of special tools for Corvettes but what is that 6 ft long wrench that I see some Porsche owners carting around at the track?
Bill
05-28-2018, 07:49 PM
#80
Safety Car
Member Since: Sep 2014
Location: in the country North Carolina
Posts: 4,248
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on
727 Posts
Brake fluid is one of the cheapest consumables and one of the easiest to maintain.
I ran Castrol SRF for a few years in my cars but stopped after it destroyed the calipers on my ACR. After switching to it on my Z06, I noticed weeping from the bleeder screws, even when they were properly torqued. I went to it on my ACR, and the calipers were a mess after a few weekends. Dodge actually was kind enough to replace my calipers under warranty. However, their engineers interacted with a Brembo engineer, who told them that synthetic SRF is basically incompatible with Brembo calipers and they will leak when using it.
I run factory DOT4 now with zero issues.
S.
I ran Castrol SRF for a few years in my cars but stopped after it destroyed the calipers on my ACR. After switching to it on my Z06, I noticed weeping from the bleeder screws, even when they were properly torqued. I went to it on my ACR, and the calipers were a mess after a few weekends. Dodge actually was kind enough to replace my calipers under warranty. However, their engineers interacted with a Brembo engineer, who told them that synthetic SRF is basically incompatible with Brembo calipers and they will leak when using it.
I run factory DOT4 now with zero issues.
S.