ZR1 vs Porsche GT Cars - Track Consummable/Maintenance Cost
05-26-2018, 08:42 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
ZR1 vs Porsche GT Cars - Track Consummable/Maintenance Cost
I have been thinking about this and a lot of times people prefer corvette over porsche because corvette is cheaper to maintain just purely from regular maintance item cost perspective as well as tracking costs.
that being said, I dont think that is true with ZR1, is it?
- It has the same very expensive ceramic rotors, special pads
- Same expensive michelin cup 2 tires
- Similar brake fluid requirements in that you need to flush them and use expensive fluid
- Same requirement that it needs a fresh high quality oil
what am I missing here? Also in terms of basic maintenance items.... is it really that cheaper?
I dont want people to speculate, I would much rather people who owned either of the cars (or Z06 with CCBs probably same so those owners can chime in) to come give feedback.
I also dont know why people think tracking a GT3 is expensive or maintaining one. The cost of consummables between these cars are quite similar no?
so where is this corvette is cheaper to maintain argument coming from?
and for the record the gt3 will cost about 20k more than a zr1 (nicely equipped both cars) so even the purchase price is no longer leaps and bounds apart like it was the case with z06 (80k vs 140k base is now 120k vs 140k base).
that being said, I dont think that is true with ZR1, is it?
- It has the same very expensive ceramic rotors, special pads
- Same expensive michelin cup 2 tires
- Similar brake fluid requirements in that you need to flush them and use expensive fluid
- Same requirement that it needs a fresh high quality oil
what am I missing here? Also in terms of basic maintenance items.... is it really that cheaper?
I dont want people to speculate, I would much rather people who owned either of the cars (or Z06 with CCBs probably same so those owners can chime in) to come give feedback.
I also dont know why people think tracking a GT3 is expensive or maintaining one. The cost of consummables between these cars are quite similar no?
so where is this corvette is cheaper to maintain argument coming from?
and for the record the gt3 will cost about 20k more than a zr1 (nicely equipped both cars) so even the purchase price is no longer leaps and bounds apart like it was the case with z06 (80k vs 140k base is now 120k vs 140k base).
Last edited by UnhandledException; 05-26-2018 at 08:42 AM.
Popular Reply
05-26-2018, 04:55 PM
I'm kind of confused about what we're comparing here. On the Porsche side is it a 991 GT3? GT3 or GT3 RS? What lap times do you turn at VIR and with what changes? I have data on a GS that turned a mid 2:01 on Pirelli scrubs with the DSC Sport controller. I've done a 1:57.5 in a Z06 with similar mods. I've been on track numerous times with someone who I know and respect who has a 991 GT3, the Z06 is significantly faster if you are on the same type of tire. I fully expect the ZR1 to be in the 1:53s at VIR or better.
I find the complaining about changing the brakes to be just plain silly. On both cars the brakes work well from the factory but only if you change the fluid and with iron brakes you will need a different pads. Many of us switched out the CCBs for AP Racing because they consumable costs are far lower than the CCBs. I don't believe there is any impact in lap time between the two systems.
Now to the original point, I actually agree that the ZR1 will have very high consumable costs. A 3600 lb car going 170 MPH is going to drink fuel, wear brakes, and chew up tires more so than a 3200 lb car going 150 MPH. You can't really do anything about fuel and I'm going to estimate the car will burn 30 gallons/hour on track. Running 93 octane at today's track prices that works out to about $135/hour. Running at a fast pace tires will probably last 4-6 days and I typically run scrubs for $600-750 a set. For the AP kit I got about 6 days out of front pads, roughly 1.5-2x that for rear, and rotors lasted at least 12 days a set for front (still haven't had to replace rears). However, I have no idea how that compares to a 991 GT3.
I think when folks talk about maintenance costs it's either repair costs (if out of pocket) or some maintenance items that the Porsche may require with its more advanced drivetrain. I know that a lot of 911 Cup car owners pull the sequential trans because the maintenance intervals and costs to rebuilt are ridiculous (somewhere around $25K every 25 hours I think?). Do the modern 911 track cars need valves adjusted, timing chains replaced, or anything like that frequently with track use?
Anyway, my normal budget for track days is around $25K/year and that includes entrance fees, food, getting there and back. The price difference between the cars seems like it would at least get me a full season of track time in a faster car for the same money.
I find the complaining about changing the brakes to be just plain silly. On both cars the brakes work well from the factory but only if you change the fluid and with iron brakes you will need a different pads. Many of us switched out the CCBs for AP Racing because they consumable costs are far lower than the CCBs. I don't believe there is any impact in lap time between the two systems.
Now to the original point, I actually agree that the ZR1 will have very high consumable costs. A 3600 lb car going 170 MPH is going to drink fuel, wear brakes, and chew up tires more so than a 3200 lb car going 150 MPH. You can't really do anything about fuel and I'm going to estimate the car will burn 30 gallons/hour on track. Running 93 octane at today's track prices that works out to about $135/hour. Running at a fast pace tires will probably last 4-6 days and I typically run scrubs for $600-750 a set. For the AP kit I got about 6 days out of front pads, roughly 1.5-2x that for rear, and rotors lasted at least 12 days a set for front (still haven't had to replace rears). However, I have no idea how that compares to a 991 GT3.
I think when folks talk about maintenance costs it's either repair costs (if out of pocket) or some maintenance items that the Porsche may require with its more advanced drivetrain. I know that a lot of 911 Cup car owners pull the sequential trans because the maintenance intervals and costs to rebuilt are ridiculous (somewhere around $25K every 25 hours I think?). Do the modern 911 track cars need valves adjusted, timing chains replaced, or anything like that frequently with track use?
Anyway, my normal budget for track days is around $25K/year and that includes entrance fees, food, getting there and back. The price difference between the cars seems like it would at least get me a full season of track time in a faster car for the same money.
05-26-2018, 08:55 AM
#2
Pro
I have been thinking about this and a lot of times people prefer corvette over porsche because corvette is cheaper to maintain just purely from regular maintance item cost perspective as well as tracking costs.
that being said, I dont think that is true with ZR1, is it?
- It has the same very expensive ceramic rotors, special pads
- Same expensive michelin cup 2 tires
- Similar brake fluid requirements in that you need to flush them and use expensive fluid
- Same requirement that it needs a fresh high quality oil
what am I missing here? Also in terms of basic maintenance items.... is it really that cheaper?
I dont want people to speculate, I would much rather people who owned either of the cars (or Z06 with CCBs probably same so those owners can chime in) to come give feedback.
I also dont know why people think tracking a GT3 is expensive or maintaining one. The cost of consummables between these cars are quite similar no?
so where is this corvette is cheaper to maintain argument coming from?
and for the record the gt3 will cost about 20k more than a zr1 (nicely equipped both cars) so even the purchase price is no longer leaps and bounds apart like it was the case with z06 (80k vs 140k base is now 120k vs 140k base).
that being said, I dont think that is true with ZR1, is it?
- It has the same very expensive ceramic rotors, special pads
- Same expensive michelin cup 2 tires
- Similar brake fluid requirements in that you need to flush them and use expensive fluid
- Same requirement that it needs a fresh high quality oil
what am I missing here? Also in terms of basic maintenance items.... is it really that cheaper?
I dont want people to speculate, I would much rather people who owned either of the cars (or Z06 with CCBs probably same so those owners can chime in) to come give feedback.
I also dont know why people think tracking a GT3 is expensive or maintaining one. The cost of consummables between these cars are quite similar no?
so where is this corvette is cheaper to maintain argument coming from?
and for the record the gt3 will cost about 20k more than a zr1 (nicely equipped both cars) so even the purchase price is no longer leaps and bounds apart like it was the case with z06 (80k vs 140k base is now 120k vs 140k base).
Last season a fellow driver had the supercharger on his Z06 eat itself and take the rest of the Engine with it... on track... GM replaced it all, under warranty... no issues.
For me, that alone is huge.
05-26-2018, 09:14 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '15
My Porsche dealer has always said they honor the warranty on GT cars from track days.
Also, Porsche CCB’s are much more expensive to replace than Chevy ones. The point is moot if you go with aftermarket brake kits like from Essex.
Also, Porsche CCB’s are much more expensive to replace than Chevy ones. The point is moot if you go with aftermarket brake kits like from Essex.
05-26-2018, 09:21 AM
#4
Drifting
It comes down too a few things,
First off, the GT cars are absolutely covered under warranty for tracking, as long as you are not running slicks on the car.
Next, the biggest difference, on my experience, is the GT cars are over engineered, and thus hold up to track duty significantly better.
For instance, the GT cars weigh 400+ lbs less than the corvette, yet have front and rear brakes significantly larger than the corvette, including 16.1 inch fronts!
I have done 5 track days in my 2018 GT3 6 spd, resetting the track record at AMP, have gone through one set of Michelin Cup 2's and onto my first set of 20" Hoosier R7's, and have yet to even bleed the brakes.
I still believe the ZR1 will be an amazing track capable car, but it will need a bit more maintenance after each event. However, typically $35K or more price difference, will afford you plenty of room for some minor track maintenance. 😉
Best Regards,
Dave
First off, the GT cars are absolutely covered under warranty for tracking, as long as you are not running slicks on the car.
Next, the biggest difference, on my experience, is the GT cars are over engineered, and thus hold up to track duty significantly better.
For instance, the GT cars weigh 400+ lbs less than the corvette, yet have front and rear brakes significantly larger than the corvette, including 16.1 inch fronts!
I have done 5 track days in my 2018 GT3 6 spd, resetting the track record at AMP, have gone through one set of Michelin Cup 2's and onto my first set of 20" Hoosier R7's, and have yet to even bleed the brakes.
I still believe the ZR1 will be an amazing track capable car, but it will need a bit more maintenance after each event. However, typically $35K or more price difference, will afford you plenty of room for some minor track maintenance. 😉
Best Regards,
Dave
Last edited by Dave Schotz; 05-26-2018 at 09:34 AM.
05-26-2018, 09:54 AM
#6
Drifting
Member Since: Jan 2013
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Hard to compare overall cost between these two. Not sure you can get an 18gt3 for msrp so the gt3 is going to cost you more than 20k. One thing that history shows is that the gt cars hold their value much better than the Vette. If i had bought a gt3 instead of my z i may be ahead of the game even if consumable were more. I paid 106k for my z06 in early 15 and it is now valued at 70k. I purchase track day insurance for my track days so jumping up to a gt3 is going to cost a lot more in insurance. I really think it all comes down to how much money you have to spend on tracking your car. For me, the zr1 would be much cheaper. The overall cost between the cars which i think is more like 40k and the added cost of track day insurance. I don’t know for sure but my guess would be any maintenance work you need at the dealer is going to be cheaper at the Chevy dealership than the Porsche dealer. I really want to get the new gt3 with the MT but I’m just not in the financial position now with two teenage boys getting ready for college.
05-26-2018, 10:12 AM
#7
Race Director
YOUR dealer may say that, but it is has been widely discussed on Rennlist that Porsche does NOT warranty the GT cars used in HPDE anymore. Don't shoot the messenger as I don't own a Porsche GT, just telling you what is easily found on Rennlist.
Last edited by jimmyb; 05-26-2018 at 05:11 PM.
05-26-2018, 10:21 AM
#8
Race Director
Reality is that a C7 GS is essentially equal to the current gen GT3 RS (see Car and Driver Lighning Lap historical data, both cars tested in 2016) as a track car. The ZR1 is in a different league.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ry-car-feature
Last edited by jimmyb; 05-26-2018 at 10:28 AM.
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Z06Norway (05-27-2018)
05-26-2018, 10:27 AM
#9
Race Director
I have been thinking about this and a lot of times people prefer corvette over porsche because corvette is cheaper to maintain just purely from regular maintance item cost perspective as well as tracking costs.
that being said, I dont think that is true with ZR1, is it?
- It has the same very expensive ceramic rotors, special pads
- Same expensive michelin cup 2 tires
- Similar brake fluid requirements in that you need to flush them and use expensive fluid
- Same requirement that it needs a fresh high quality oil
what am I missing here? Also in terms of basic maintenance items.... is it really that cheaper?
I dont want people to speculate, I would much rather people who owned either of the cars (or Z06 with CCBs probably same so those owners can chime in) to come give feedback.
I also dont know why people think tracking a GT3 is expensive or maintaining one. The cost of consummables between these cars are quite similar no?
so where is this corvette is cheaper to maintain argument coming from?
and for the record the gt3 will cost about 20k more than a zr1 (nicely equipped both cars) so even the purchase price is no longer leaps and bounds apart like it was the case with z06 (80k vs 140k base is now 120k vs 140k base).
that being said, I dont think that is true with ZR1, is it?
- It has the same very expensive ceramic rotors, special pads
- Same expensive michelin cup 2 tires
- Similar brake fluid requirements in that you need to flush them and use expensive fluid
- Same requirement that it needs a fresh high quality oil
what am I missing here? Also in terms of basic maintenance items.... is it really that cheaper?
I dont want people to speculate, I would much rather people who owned either of the cars (or Z06 with CCBs probably same so those owners can chime in) to come give feedback.
I also dont know why people think tracking a GT3 is expensive or maintaining one. The cost of consummables between these cars are quite similar no?
so where is this corvette is cheaper to maintain argument coming from?
and for the record the gt3 will cost about 20k more than a zr1 (nicely equipped both cars) so even the purchase price is no longer leaps and bounds apart like it was the case with z06 (80k vs 140k base is now 120k vs 140k base).
Last edited by jimmyb; 05-26-2018 at 10:29 AM.
05-26-2018, 10:53 AM
#10
Drifting
Let's have both run stock to stock for 30 mins, and see which runs the quicker overall time. Sorry, I've owned, driven and raced them all, and you couldn't even track a stock Z06 or GS in 85 degree plus temps without changing the brake fluid.
The ZR1 will be faster due to 200 more hp, the others wouldn't. And Randy beat the Z06 in gt3 at willow springs, for another comparison.
Best Regards,
Dave
05-26-2018, 12:14 PM
#11
It comes down too a few things,
First off, the GT cars are absolutely covered under warranty for tracking, as long as you are not running slicks on the car.
Next, the biggest difference, on my experience, is the GT cars are over engineered, and thus hold up to track duty significantly better.
For instance, the GT cars weigh 400+ lbs less than the corvette, yet have front and rear brakes significantly larger than the corvette, including 16.1 inch fronts!
I have done 5 track days in my 2018 GT3 6 spd, resetting the track record at AMP, have gone through one set of Michelin Cup 2's and onto my first set of 20" Hoosier R7's, and have yet to even bleed the brakes.
I still believe the ZR1 will be an amazing track capable car, but it will need a bit more maintenance after each event. However, typically $35K or more price difference, will afford you plenty of room for some minor track maintenance. 😉
Best Regards,
Dave
First off, the GT cars are absolutely covered under warranty for tracking, as long as you are not running slicks on the car.
Next, the biggest difference, on my experience, is the GT cars are over engineered, and thus hold up to track duty significantly better.
For instance, the GT cars weigh 400+ lbs less than the corvette, yet have front and rear brakes significantly larger than the corvette, including 16.1 inch fronts!
I have done 5 track days in my 2018 GT3 6 spd, resetting the track record at AMP, have gone through one set of Michelin Cup 2's and onto my first set of 20" Hoosier R7's, and have yet to even bleed the brakes.
I still believe the ZR1 will be an amazing track capable car, but it will need a bit more maintenance after each event. However, typically $35K or more price difference, will afford you plenty of room for some minor track maintenance. 😉
Best Regards,
Dave
05-26-2018, 12:20 PM
#12
Drifting
05-26-2018, 02:26 PM
#14
Race Director
You guys are funny, seriously!
Let's have both run stock to stock for 30 mins, and see which runs the quicker overall time. Sorry, I've owned, driven and raced them all, and you couldn't even track a stock Z06 or GS in 85 degree plus temps without changing the brake fluid.
The ZR1 will be faster due to 200 more hp, the others wouldn't. And Randy beat the Z06 in gt3 at willow springs, for another comparison.
Best Regards,
Dave
Both Porsche and GM recommend brake fluid changes before track duty...so I don't understand what your point is. ANYONE with ANY level of sense would do a comprehensive track prep, as instructed by the manufacturer, before doing a SERIOUS HPDE. I would also wager that EVERY one of these instructions INCLUDES brake fluid change.
In the Car and Driver Lighning Lap, the GT3 RS was 1/10th of a second faster (2:47.0 verses 2:47.1) than a GS. I would think it is safe to assume that a GT3 would be SLOWER than a GS.
Last edited by jimmyb; 05-26-2018 at 02:38 PM.
05-26-2018, 02:48 PM
#15
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It comes down too a few things,
First off, the GT cars are absolutely covered under warranty for tracking, as long as you are not running slicks on the car.
Next, the biggest difference, on my experience, is the GT cars are over engineered, and thus hold up to track duty significantly better.
For instance, the GT cars weigh 400+ lbs less than the corvette, yet have front and rear brakes significantly larger than the corvette, including 16.1 inch fronts!
I have done 5 track days in my 2018 GT3 6 spd, resetting the track record at AMP, have gone through one set of Michelin Cup 2's and onto my first set of 20" Hoosier R7's, and have yet to even bleed the brakes.
I still believe the ZR1 will be an amazing track capable car, but it will need a bit more maintenance after each event. However, typically $35K or more price difference, will afford you plenty of room for some minor track maintenance. 😉
Best Regards,
Dave
First off, the GT cars are absolutely covered under warranty for tracking, as long as you are not running slicks on the car.
Next, the biggest difference, on my experience, is the GT cars are over engineered, and thus hold up to track duty significantly better.
For instance, the GT cars weigh 400+ lbs less than the corvette, yet have front and rear brakes significantly larger than the corvette, including 16.1 inch fronts!
I have done 5 track days in my 2018 GT3 6 spd, resetting the track record at AMP, have gone through one set of Michelin Cup 2's and onto my first set of 20" Hoosier R7's, and have yet to even bleed the brakes.
I still believe the ZR1 will be an amazing track capable car, but it will need a bit more maintenance after each event. However, typically $35K or more price difference, will afford you plenty of room for some minor track maintenance. 😉
Best Regards,
Dave
And wasn't the pads ZR1 specific?
05-26-2018, 02:53 PM
#16
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desmophile (05-26-2018)
05-26-2018, 03:02 PM
#17
And....
Both Porsche and GM recommend brake fluid changes before track duty...so I don't understand what your point is. ANYONE with ANY level of sense would do a comprehensive track prep, as instructed by the manufacturer, before doing a SERIOUS HPDE. I would also wager that EVERY one of these instructions INCLUDES brake fluid change.
In the Car and Driver Lighning Lap, the GT3 RS was 1/10th of a second faster (2:47.0 verses 2:47.1) than a GS. I would think it is safe to assume that a GT3 would be SLOWER than a GS.
Both Porsche and GM recommend brake fluid changes before track duty...so I don't understand what your point is. ANYONE with ANY level of sense would do a comprehensive track prep, as instructed by the manufacturer, before doing a SERIOUS HPDE. I would also wager that EVERY one of these instructions INCLUDES brake fluid change.
In the Car and Driver Lighning Lap, the GT3 RS was 1/10th of a second faster (2:47.0 verses 2:47.1) than a GS. I would think it is safe to assume that a GT3 would be SLOWER than a GS.
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05-26-2018, 03:24 PM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
Can we stay on topic? I m very well aware how PCNA covers tracked cars (quite well) and that GM is no different.
question is about consummables/operating costs of each cars be it on track or off track.
i dont think zr1 is cheaper to operate at all. Anyone challenging that with some facts?
question is about consummables/operating costs of each cars be it on track or off track.
i dont think zr1 is cheaper to operate at all. Anyone challenging that with some facts?
05-26-2018, 03:57 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Have you guys actually tracked any of your corvettes against a GT3? You seem to be basing your evaluations off of magazine times alone. The P-cars are incredibly quick. A PDK GT3 can easily give a good driver in a Z06 a run for their money. Their comparative Sebring laptimes are nearly identical. Their acceleration on a straight is also nearly identical and they often can put the power down faster coming into the straight. Good luck keeping up with a GT3 in your GS...the P-cars appear to be much easier to get the full potential out of them.
05-26-2018, 03:59 PM
#20
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Both expensive asf....the end. You play, you gotta pay. That ZR1 is gonna guzzle gasoline like a glory hole at the Hoover Dam also...so, you have to account for go juice. Brake Specific Fuel Consumption on forced induction tends to be 10% higher, just due to the tuning parameters necessary to keep it alive. GT3RS will likely get quite a bit better gas mileage on track vs ZR1 also. So, it's a cost factor in total to consider.