Foosh

You clearly don't realize it, but there are several "pros," as defined by sanctioned and certified active track instructors on this thread, who have all said similar things about this incident, mostly that cold tires and DSC/TC partially or fully disabled more than likely were among the causes.

They've mostly stopped participating now because there is so much nonsense being spewed here.

Yes, it was parade lap, but it wouldn't be the first time someone got over-enthusiastic on one of those, and he did it by nailing it when leaving the pits.

JoesC5

I see a bunch of white cars in front of the actual race car that is in front of Mark's ZR1. Were they driving at "professional" race car drivers speeds or slow pace car parade speeds? I wonder why they didn't also wreck if the weather and track conditions were so horrible and the bump in the track is so bad that it can upset a car being driven slow that is designed to be driven on bumpy roads.

Foosh

They had been running warm-up laps for some time before Mr. Reuss made his grand entrance from the pits, supposedly to collect them up for a parade lap, and were at constant speed. No one was going very fast, but someone did hit the throttle very hard coming out of the pits.

johnglenntwo

C5 ZO6 slipping/spinning right turn was stopped in its tracks!

JoesC5

If Mr. Reuss was to 'collect them up' for a parade lap, why did he wait to pull out so far after the white cars had gone by.

Pace laps I've ever seen, the "pace car" pulls out in front of everyone, not in the middle of them, in order to collect them.

Being that the race had not even started, all the race cars should have been in proper starting order, so why is one of the race cars in front of the "Pace" car?

So much about this "accident" that doesn't make sense.

heavychevy

Yes, but have you done so with C7 stability aids? If they were all on that slide does not happen and certainly the wheels are not spinning that fast while it's going sideways. That pretty much nullifies any malfunction argument. There are ZERO brake lights until after he hits the wall which is actually dumbfounding. How do you not know when you have lost the car with his stated credentials? He accelerates pretty much until contact with the wall.

What you have to understand is the concept of yaw sensors. If he was slightly straight, with little lateral G, he could spin the tires more without interruption. But wheel slide and lateral g will set off any good stability control and the c7 is the best I've driven. It only cuts enough power to keep you from spinning but not kill you speed. However I think the times I have driven them, they were in sport mode, not competition mode, and still wouldnt lt me do what he did. Power is cut and then restored very quickly.

ALL of the evidence points to no stability control and a showoff attempt regardless of what apologists might say.

The reason this discussion needs to be had is so that owners and potential owners can understand that you would have to try to do this. There was nothing wrong with that car, except maybe a poor alignment, but even then, the driver caused the accident. The C7 has amazing stability controls to keeping exactly this from happening, but only if you allow it to by keeping nannies on.

sunsalem

Maybe it will be put on display at the NCM as an object lesson on what not to do in a ZR1...

I second that about the stability controls.
I have never even been in a car that can do what the C7 can do in that dept.
It truly is something GM's engineers should be proud of.

ZMMMMM

GM’s statement…
“It is unfortunate that this incident happened. Many factors contributed, including weather and track conditions. The car’s safety systems performed as expected.”

Mark Reuss’ statement…
“I want to thank you all for your well wishes today. I am ok. I have driven this course many many many times. I have paced this race in the wet, cold, hot, and calm. On Z06’s, Grand Sports, and other things. It is never a casual thing for me, but an honor to be asked. Today I let down my friends, my family, Indycar, our city and my company. Sorry does not describe it. I want to thank our engineers for providing me the safety I know is the best in the world.”

Our next “Ask Tadge” question should be… “Was Stabilitrak working correctly when Mark Reuss crashed the ZR1 pace car”?

CT Grand Sport CE

That lone car is the two seater that Mario Andretti drives with a celebrity in the back seat during the parade laps. In some of the clips of the crash one of the commentators says, “It’s almost like he didn’t expect to see the 2 seater there”.

descartesfool

Perhaps 755 HP and only RWD doesn't make much sense.

Varmit

Race control tells him when to get on the track, ask them

johnglenntwo

Same Tires!? Electronics on makes sense!

Poor-sha

For those not familiar with the C7 stability control this is my C7 Z06 in Track - Sport 1. It was a cool rainy day and I went out on slicks.

AORoads

^^^ Yes, but you approached at about 60 mph. If you were going sufficiently faster, the nannies on probably wouldn't have saved you, would they?

In other words, it's possible to exceed the capacity/ability of the nannies to save a car.

Snorman

Having tried to drive my C7 Z06 in any Sport or Race without using PTM modes, it was pointless for me. The nannies intervened at various areas around the track (Sebring T3, T7, T10, T16, Daytona T3, T5, T6). I think it would be VERY hard to loop the car with the "nannies" on, if not nearly impossible.
There were no brake lights when the car went hard left and the tires were spinning.
S.

Foosh

Obviously, if you go into a hairpin at 100 mph without braking, nothing is going to save you from going for an off-track ride. However, in this case we're talking about someone who suddenly nailed the throttle in a turn immediately after coming out of the pits. That wasn't a high-speed accident, it was a classic Cars and Coffee accident.

Snorman

Yes, it will save it. You can go WOT and it'll detect steering input and yaw rate and it'll pull power instantly.
Also, where is there proof that this happened right "out of the pits"?
The nonsense from people who don't understand how the the systems in the C7 work is ridiculous.

Who cares what 20-year old C6 Z06 does. Or a 30-year old C5. Or...LMFAO...a 25 year old supercharged Mercedes. FWIW...I bought a brand new E55 back in 2006. I could FLOOR that car, in the rain and never lose it. And that was ~20 years ago.
S.

Foosh

Yes, I am in total agreement that the accident under discussion would not have happened had both DSC and TC been fully on. That was exactly my point, and I've maintained that repeatedly throughout this lengthy, tortured, and merged thread.

You snipped my post in quoting, and I was answering a different question about whether those very capable and awesome systems would save you in all circumstances like plowing into a low speed corner at high speed without braking. The answer is "no."

Discussions here are maddening because few read enough to understand the context of individual posts before responding. The nannies won't save you from driving in a straight line at 100 mph into a brick wall either. By "Cars and Coffee accident" I meant hot dogs who turn the nannies off to try to impress spectators when leaving car shows. Sunday's accident looked a lot like that at a "car show" in the parade lap.

heavychevy

When is wet, especially on slicks, aquaplaning is the risk. That is essentially driving on ice. There is no grip for the car to use to save you, it's trying and in the video you can see that a split second of grip was all the system needed to save a spin. The car at indy had far more grip than slicks in the rain. As long as there is a consistent coefficient of friction (grip) the car can pretty much prevent any spins. You'd have to try really hard to defeat it. And thank goodness because otherwise the average driver would have no chance in this car.

sunsalem

That would be a useless exercise....trust me here.

Sure, it's possible...but he really wasn't going fast enough to defeat the system (if engaged).