Randy Pobst is tearing up Willow Springs!
07-13-2018, 01:17 AM
#321
Scraping the splitter.
Agreed, and why I prefaced. At those two tracks, and leaning towards benefiting raw hp, he could be right.
But I find it funnier, he races an older modified Porsche Turbo and I race an older corvette.
No issue here agreeing to disagree, I just believe Heavies view, is really of the .1 cars, which are not only down 20-30 hp but more importantly, the new cars make so much more tq and much lower in the power band.
Maybe we get lucky and C&D will have a GT3 and an RS at LL.
Best Regards,
Dave
I'm actually hoping to catch up with Dez or Jade at Road Atlanta later this year when I get back out in the ACR...
S.
07-13-2018, 02:13 AM
#322
Safety Car
<div style="text-align:left;"><br /><br />Agreed, and why I prefaced. At those two tracks, and leaning towards benefiting raw hp, he could be right.<br /><br />But I find it funnier, he races an older modified Porsche Turbo and I race an older corvette. <br /><br />No issue here agreeing to disagree, I just believe Heavies view, is really of the .1 cars, which are not only down 20-30 hp but more importantly, the new cars make so much more tq and much lower in the power band.<br /><br />Maybe we get lucky and C&D will have a GT3 and an RS at LL.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Dave</div><br />
<br /><br />No issue here agreeing to disagree, I just believe Heavies view, is really of the .1 cars, which are not only down 20-30 hp but more importantly, the new cars make so much more tq and much lower in the power band.<br /><br />Maybe we get lucky and C&D will have a GT3 and an RS at LL.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br />Dave</div><br />Last edited by heavychevy; 07-13-2018 at 02:16 AM.
07-13-2018, 05:59 AM
#323
Le Mans Master
But those details! ;)
2011 3,207lb Carbon Edition 50/50 weight distribition;
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...6-carbon-test/
SNAP OVERSTEER - ZR1 Better, but, suffers light rear off the line!
(add big aero, 3.32 gear, coilovers, forged wheels, Cup tires, 32lbs shifted back, and LS6 cammed up; Best FME
)
2012 3,320lb Cenntential Edition *49/51 weight distribution;
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...car-contender/
Tires and weight? (slowed) adds the soft handling per Pobst (ME on the way!)
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...6-carbon-test/
SNAP OVERSTEER - ZR1 Better, but, suffers light rear off the line!
(add big aero, 3.32 gear, coilovers, forged wheels, Cup tires, 32lbs shifted back, and LS6 cammed up; Best FME
)2012 3,320lb Cenntential Edition *49/51 weight distribution;
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...car-contender/
Tires and weight? (slowed) adds the soft handling per Pobst (ME on the way!)
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 07-13-2018 at 04:42 PM.
07-13-2018, 12:00 PM
#324
Le Mans Master
I'm intrigued by all of this detailed sport car analysis.
1) What makes the Vettes perform relatively poorly at Willow?
2) What changes do the RS versions of the 911s have that account for such improvements in overall performance?
3) Do the newest 911s perform well with electronics off with the rear rear engine layout? Do you have to drive them differently than the FE cars I'm accustomed to? I watched some kind of 911 with a big wing slide off the track, backwards, going relatively slowly, at a track day right in front of me. Looked like he let off a bit and it was just gone and non-recoverable. Kind of scared me from even considering one honestly.
1) What makes the Vettes perform relatively poorly at Willow?
2) What changes do the RS versions of the 911s have that account for such improvements in overall performance?
3) Do the newest 911s perform well with electronics off with the rear rear engine layout? Do you have to drive them differently than the FE cars I'm accustomed to? I watched some kind of 911 with a big wing slide off the track, backwards, going relatively slowly, at a track day right in front of me. Looked like he let off a bit and it was just gone and non-recoverable. Kind of scared me from even considering one honestly.
07-13-2018, 12:11 PM
#325
Melting Slicks
I'm intrigued by all of this detailed sport car analysis.
3) Do the newest 911s perform well with electronics off with the rear rear engine layout? Do you have to drive them differently than the FE cars I'm accustomed to? I watched some kind of 911 with a big wing slide off the track, backwards, going relatively slowly, at a track day right in front of me. Looked like he let off a bit and it was just gone and non-recoverable. Kind of scared me from even considering one honestly.
3) Do the newest 911s perform well with electronics off with the rear rear engine layout? Do you have to drive them differently than the FE cars I'm accustomed to? I watched some kind of 911 with a big wing slide off the track, backwards, going relatively slowly, at a track day right in front of me. Looked like he let off a bit and it was just gone and non-recoverable. Kind of scared me from even considering one honestly.
07-13-2018, 12:23 PM
#326
Le Mans Master
I'm intrigued by all of this detailed sport car analysis.
1) What makes the Vettes perform relatively poorly at Willow?
2) What changes do the RS versions of the 911s have that account for such improvements in overall performance?
3) Do the newest 911s perform well with electronics off with the rear rear engine layout? Do you have to drive them differently than the FE cars I'm accustomed to? I watched some kind of 911 with a big wing slide off the track, backwards, going relatively slowly, at a track day right in front of me. Looked like he let off a bit and it was just gone and non-recoverable. Kind of scared me from even considering one honestly.
1) What makes the Vettes perform relatively poorly at Willow?
2) What changes do the RS versions of the 911s have that account for such improvements in overall performance?
3) Do the newest 911s perform well with electronics off with the rear rear engine layout? Do you have to drive them differently than the FE cars I'm accustomed to? I watched some kind of 911 with a big wing slide off the track, backwards, going relatively slowly, at a track day right in front of me. Looked like he let off a bit and it was just gone and non-recoverable. Kind of scared me from even considering one honestly.
Last edited by village idiot; 07-13-2018 at 12:26 PM.
07-13-2018, 01:25 PM
#327
If I recall (and was told) correctly, I don't think you can fully turn off Porsche aids, but they're much more advanced than C7 aids. They "learn" and are better at incorporating/calculating what tires are loaded, slip angle, blah blah blah and etc as well as letting you slide a little. https://www.total911.com/sales-debat...ill-add-value/
Corvette will NEVER be better than Porsche in these types of things. You know why? Because they dont want to be. Because 80-85% of their customers dont require this level of perfectness. So its not that corvette team sucks. Absolutely not. They cater themselves for the market they are targeting. The car has to be good enough so that John doe who just retired at 65 and bought his dream car can do 3 laps without crashing. Noone is going to take turns in nurburgring at 245 kmh in a zr1.
07-13-2018, 02:03 PM
#328
Safety Car
Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you really believe what you say? The active handling in the Corvette has long been one of the most driver friendly systems. BMW systems are trash, shut the car off. The power management controlling these large torque numbers and much less traction is pretty darn impressive in my opinion.
07-13-2018, 02:10 PM
#329
Le Mans Master
Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you really believe what you say? The active handling in the Corvette has long been one of the most driver friendly systems. BMW systems are trash, shut the car off. The power management controlling these large torque numbers and much less traction is pretty darn impressive in my opinion.
And yeah, Porsche is obviously far more dedicated to motorsports than GM. Look at all the DE events they do, PCA, etc, etc, etc.
07-13-2018, 02:25 PM
#330
Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you really believe what you say? The active handling in the Corvette has long been one of the most driver friendly systems. BMW systems are trash, shut the car off. The power management controlling these large torque numbers and much less traction is pretty darn impressive in my opinion.
As far as basing the manufacturer on the number of DEs and such they run I don't get that either. PCA is a club of owners and enthusiasts. When was the last time you went to a PCA event and saw an engineer from Porsche there? Most NCM events I have been to have included folks from the Corvette team.
Last edited by Poor-sha; 07-13-2018 at 02:27 PM.
07-13-2018, 02:29 PM
#331
Safety Car
I'm not necessarily referring to you. I think your credentials speak for themself. But I have tracked with guys who are as fast/faster than me and they like to get Dez in the car to make them faster. That's good enough for me. And on top of it, he's a nice guy.
I'm actually hoping to catch up with Dez or Jade at Road Atlanta later this year when I get back out in the ACR...
S.
I'm actually hoping to catch up with Dez or Jade at Road Atlanta later this year when I get back out in the ACR...
S.
07-13-2018, 02:31 PM
#332
Le Mans Master
+1. I own an F80 M3 and the TC/AH system is horrible even with Euro MDM enabled. I have both M mode buttons programmed to turn it off as soon as I get in the car. In comparison, I leave everything on in the C7 on the street and it works wonderfully. On the track the PTM works very well and I am definitely faster with it on than off. The last Porsche I owned was a 986 S (2003) so I'm sure they have improved a lot in the last 15 years. However, even in its day it was garbage even compared to the C6 I had. I turned it off the moment I started the car as well.
As far as basing the manufacturer on the number of DEs and such they run I don't get that either. PCA is a club of owners and enthusiasts. When was the last time you went to a PCA event and saw an engineer from Porsche there? Most NCM events I have been to have included folks from the Corvette team.
As far as basing the manufacturer on the number of DEs and such they run I don't get that either. PCA is a club of owners and enthusiasts. When was the last time you went to a PCA event and saw an engineer from Porsche there? Most NCM events I have been to have included folks from the Corvette team.
07-13-2018, 03:12 PM
#333
I am not talking about "driver friendly". I am talking about pure computing power. The hardware. The software and the quality of the software. Quality of the software doesn't imply quality of implementation nor it implies quality of user interface. The german ECUs are in a different league all together and main reason for that is encryption they use is military grade (or even above) that actually requires hardware level hacking. In the case of BMWs, it actually requires you to intercept the byte code using a hardware reader (literally using 2 metal connectors at the transistors). Corvettes have nowhere near the complexity and power in their own ECU. This doesn't mean their traction system is bad.
07-13-2018, 03:16 PM
#334
Melting Slicks
+1. I own an F80 M3 and the TC/AH system is horrible even with Euro MDM enabled. I have both M mode buttons programmed to turn it off as soon as I get in the car. In comparison, I leave everything on in the C7 on the street and it works wonderfully. On the track the PTM works very well and I am definitely faster with it on than off. The last Porsche I owned was a 986 S (2003) so I'm sure they have improved a lot in the last 15 years. However, even in its day it was garbage even compared to the C6 I had. I turned it off the moment I started the car as well.
As far as basing the manufacturer on the number of DEs and such they run I don't get that either. PCA is a club of owners and enthusiasts. When was the last time you went to a PCA event and saw an engineer from Porsche there? Most NCM events I have been to have included folks from the Corvette team.
As far as basing the manufacturer on the number of DEs and such they run I don't get that either. PCA is a club of owners and enthusiasts. When was the last time you went to a PCA event and saw an engineer from Porsche there? Most NCM events I have been to have included folks from the Corvette team.
To be fair Bowling Green is closer than Sttugart.
07-13-2018, 03:58 PM
#335
This is the comment that was made that I was replying to:
Is it Type 1, 2, or 3? What algorithm and key strength? It's curious that I was able to buy a cheap cable off Amazon and get a free piece of software to change all sorts of configuration parameters on my M3 at the byte level.
Sure, but PCNA is in Atlanta and ACNA is in Herndon, VA. I have yet to see an Audi employee show up for an Audi Club track event 45 minutes from their HQ.
The M5 I used to have not one but two ECUs and even one of them was faster (at a cpu level) than what C7 comes with. So yes of course porsche’s aids and software is more sophisticated.
I am not talking about "driver friendly". I am talking about pure computing power. The hardware. The software and the quality of the software. Quality of the software doesn't imply quality of implementation nor it implies quality of user interface. The german ECUs are in a different league all together and main reason for that is encryption they use is military grade (or even above) that actually requires hardware level hacking. In the case of BMWs, it actually requires you to intercept the byte code using a hardware reader (literally using 2 metal connectors at the transistors). Corvettes have nowhere near the complexity and power in their own ECU. This doesn't mean their traction system is bad.
Sure, but PCNA is in Atlanta and ACNA is in Herndon, VA. I have yet to see an Audi employee show up for an Audi Club track event 45 minutes from their HQ.
07-14-2018, 01:21 AM
#336
Scraping the splitter.
Sean, anytime man. Let me know when you'll be in town and I'll be glad to ride. Im just getting my car back after getting rear ended at a time trial in December. Car wrecked in front of me and I slowed down but the next guy came from 2 turns back and didn't pay attention to anything, hit me at speed in his garage built kit hooptie. Anyhow just about ready to get back out. Having serious withdrawals.
I'm planning Road Atlanta with Chin in October and February (figuring their usual schedule). I'll keep you posted, but planning on a busy September-May. Last year was sort of slow as we worked on getting our Champ/WRL/AER car sorted out. I'm hoping to get Ron and Keith up with their ACR's too. Maybe we can get Luke and Gary down as well.
Sean.
07-14-2018, 02:47 AM
#337
Safety Car
Sorry to hear about the car.
I'm planning Road Atlanta with Chin in October and February (figuring their usual schedule). I'll keep you posted, but planning on a busy September-May. Last year was sort of slow as we worked on getting our Champ/WRL/AER car sorted out. I'm hoping to get Ron and Keith up with their ACR's too. Maybe we can get Luke and Gary down as well.
Sean.
I'm planning Road Atlanta with Chin in October and February (figuring their usual schedule). I'll keep you posted, but planning on a busy September-May. Last year was sort of slow as we worked on getting our Champ/WRL/AER car sorted out. I'm hoping to get Ron and Keith up with their ACR's too. Maybe we can get Luke and Gary down as well.
Sean.
07-14-2018, 02:38 PM
#339
This is the comment that was made that I was replying to:
Is it Type 1, 2, or 3? What algorithm and key strength? It's curious that I was able to buy a cheap cable off Amazon and get a free piece of software to change all sorts of configuration parameters on my M3 at the byte level.
Sure, but PCNA is in Atlanta and ACNA is in Herndon, VA. I have yet to see an Audi employee show up for an Audi Club track event 45 minutes from their HQ.
Is it Type 1, 2, or 3? What algorithm and key strength? It's curious that I was able to buy a cheap cable off Amazon and get a free piece of software to change all sorts of configuration parameters on my M3 at the byte level.
Sure, but PCNA is in Atlanta and ACNA is in Herndon, VA. I have yet to see an Audi employee show up for an Audi Club track event 45 minutes from their HQ.
And please stop trying to sound all technical, everything you do with any given phone/laptop/PC, every action, mouse click, key stroke, is all “byte level”. Because thats what the instruction set architecture of a chip will take and convert to binary. Yes I do have a computer science degree and I have been doing this for a living for a long time. So i am not talking out of my *** about the german bosch ECUs and their corvette counterparts. The corvette software and the hardware that software runs is in a different lower league all together. It doesnt even come close.
Corvette has always followed germans a generation behind (the suspension, the interior quality, seats etc) and considering the statements GM made about warranty and tuneability of cars going forward, it doesnt suprise me if you told me C8 corvette will have far superior software and hardware combo but this generation doesnt.
07-14-2018, 02:57 PM
#340
You feel better now? My point is first that "military grade encryption" is a buzz word and that's all. You could call most browsers "military grade" these days. Second, I don't see how the type of encryption used by the ECU has any bearing on the overall performance of the engine or drivetrain. Since you started throwing around irrelevant terms I figured I'd have a little fun since I've been doing this stuff a while too.
Have a great day and hope the SEHOP catches you.
Have a great day and hope the SEHOP catches you.
