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ZR1 at Motor Trends Best Drivers Car Test today at Laguna Seca

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ZR1 at Motor Trends Best Drivers Car Test today at Laguna Seca

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Old 07-11-2018, 11:09 PM
  #81  
Achmed
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Johny L posted on inatagram "Let me just say, the ZR1 is a big boy over turn one here. My gosh."
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Poor-sha View Post
I don't understand why someone who admits they don't track much feels so compelled to complain about a car you will never own or track. However, let me help you get on track more. You don't need to belong to NJMP, Watkins Glen, or Pocono to go to track days there and I suspect all of those are within about 3-4 hours of where you are. Look in to the big car clubs or track day organizers as I know HOD has track days at all those tracks.

As far as the discussion on tenths, here is probably the best description I've seen written by one of the best pro driver coaches out there - Peter Krause
http://peterkrause.net/Krause_%26_As...ck_Wisdom.html

“Tenths,” and their appropriate use on the track...

When I describe "tenths,” or the system of assigning a relative speed, level of concentration or demonstration of car physics on-track to someone, it usually follows these definitions.

3/10 is driving on a flat, straight and level road with no distractions.

4/10 is driving on a gently curving Interstate with low traffic density at a higher rate of speed than at 3/10.

5/10 is driving quickly, but efficiently and at the speed limit on the street, more concentration required due to more "hazards" present.

6/10 is a standard DE lap or an out lap early on in a race weekend, for me. The purpose may be to re-familiarize myself with the race track, enjoy a relaxed lap or just "cruise" around and, in particular, designed to take NOTHING out of the car. This is also the level of driving quickly on the Interstate with a fair bit of traffic at higher speeds.

7/10 is a more aggressive DE level, designed to begin to "move the car around" and just a little more taxing on the car. Also, 7/10 can be an out lap later on in a race weekend, usually the result of greater confidence and familiarity. Relatively wide variation in lap time depending on traffic and concentration.

8/10 is an easily sustained level, requiring high levels of concentration, generally attained after the first few laps of a race or enduro when the dust settles and you slide into driving quickly and accurately, but are not locked in a battle that is external to you and your car. The car is sliding, but only at the beginning or the end of a corner and not at all corners and not on all laps. Generally laps are within .8-1.5 seconds apart and relatively consistent. This is the level I am most comfortable taking people around the track. Plenty of "headroom" and margin for error or changeable track conditions.

9/10 is driving pretty hard, but is sustainable, repeatable and the driver is still relatively accurate in their placement of the car. The car is now sliding much of the time, the driver is focused on catching someone or staying ahead of someone but is maintaining control and discipline of their own mind and of the car. At this point, the driver is using most of the width of the road, but not much curbing, and is focusing on drawing large arcs with the path of the car. The rhythm is such that the lap times are generally within .2 -.8 seconds apart, barring traffic or mistakes. This is my limit for one or two "hot laps" with someone riding with me.

9.5/10 is driving hard. More sliding, slightly quicker laps still than at 9/10. Less margin for error, a lot more work being done by the car. The driver is now "guiding" the car on a path selected well in advance. The car is sliding from turn-in, through the apex and is using the entire width of the paved track, plus the inside curbs. Cannot generally be sustained for more than five or six laps. I would not drive a car at this level with a passenger in it...

10/10 is when the skill level of a substantially experienced and supremely confident driver meets the competence level of the car nearly perfectly. The car is sliding nearly the entire lap. Slip angles of 7-12 degrees (DOT radials, less on radial slicks) are sustained through the entire length of most of the corners. The entire width of the road, plus the inside and outside (if available) curbing or pavement extensions are used, every corner, every lap. The previous lap is at 9 or 9.5/10 so that the "hot" lap is started at the greatest possible speed and with the highest possible concentration.

Typically, I drive 10/10's for one or two qualifying laps and my first few laps of the race to build a "gap" to the rest of the competition. I also drive 10/10's to experiment with changes made to the car or to evaluate tires in practice, not to mention putting in a "flyer" to achieve the psychological advantage of being on or near the top of the time sheet <grin>.

I may not drive 10/10’s more than a few laps during the weekend, but I pick and choose the time to do it. I feel like the car and I are balanced on a tightrope and I am constantly making tiny little corrections to adjust it's trajectory, with each correction making a difference... I'm not sure this level can be sustained more than two or three laps at a time. In order to be successful at the highest level of most organized competition, you must be able to drive at this level.

11/10's is when your talent runs out! <very big grin>
Peter is a great guy & a genius with telemetry.

I was skeptical at first when I heard he doesn't coach from the right seat, but then I talked to fellow instructors and racers that used his services and they all gave him glowing reports. Then I got to finally meet him and listen to one of his sessions on chassis dynamics and their effects on lap times.

Crimniney.

I am kicking myself having missed out on a track walk he hosted a while back at VIR...
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:39 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by truth.b View Post
According to Google Watkins Glen is approx 4h 30mins drive from Manhattan. My advice is to go there and try it out. I live in NC and made the drive (with buddies) and got a chance to drive it years ago post repave. If I lived in any where near New York City, I would make that drive just to run that place again.

Google Maps Link: NYC to The Glen

Hi Truth.

Sorry I missed you at NCM.

I contacted the CI late & they had plenty of instructors by then. Hope to see you & your GF out there soon.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CORVETTEZL1001 View Post
It’s going to be hard to beat the GT2RS and the 720S. The Ford GT didn’t show because it would come in last.
Incredible excuse from what I heard and very lame. Too bad because it's still a very fast car and it's American !
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by johnglenntwo View Post
He melted down its tires and called it jittery or something derogatory. He has also misused the ZR1 per GM's instructions.

Anything else wise guys?
Since Randy has always been a Porsche guy I've always wondered how hard he has pushed the Corvettes.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by keagan View Post
Can you share??
We talked about various things from what I can put out on the forum to what I observed the last time I saw the ZR1 testing at LS last year. One of the questions I asked the Development Engineer was what was asked on the Ask Tadge question this last week about the tunnel aluminum overlay with vents. Seems to be just a clearance issue to the road surface more than anything and not a heating issue. There will be a short single sentence answer to that one.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:14 AM
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I also covertly asked about "Future Corvette Reveals" to the Marketing guy. He was tight lipped and just smiled. I tried to extole the virtues of revealing the "Special Future Corvettes" (mid engined C8) to the Pebble Beach Concour D'Elegance and a few other locations during Monterey Classic Car Week since there's more mid engined sports cars displayed there than any other venue on the planet.

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:18 AM
  #88  
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Thanks bud! Can’t wait to see the results. My gut tells me the Z won’t win but screw the BDC award, I wanna see what it lays down with the big boys.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:39 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by UnhandledException View Post
Have you read MotorTrend's ZR1 review? ZR1 pulled less lateral g in skidpad than Z06 and the willow time of ZR1 and Z06 are very close.
Skid pad tests don't always predict how well the car will handle at speed going through a corner. That is why slalom tests have been added to almost every car mag evaluation. However, even then you really don't know until you brake into a corner and then put the power down coming off the apex of each turn. The ZR1 is heavier in the nose than the Z06 but they compensated to some degree with wider front rims and more down force than the Z06 has.

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Old 07-12-2018, 01:07 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by UnhandledException View Post


Again, you are an instructor. The other guy is good enough to be driving faster than the porsche cup car.
Another one has been tracking his Z06 over a dozen times a year for 3 years now. I am not like you guys. Where I live, every race track requires private membership with dues exceeding $30,000/year minimum. I am lucky if I can do 1 proper track day if not maybe 2 a year and those cost $3000 each with insurance, track costs, and other consummables. I have to drive an entire day each way to even go to a track I can use. Unfortunately i dont live in midwest or in the middle of nowhere. I live 20 miles outside of downtown Manhattan. I cant and will never be able to drive as good as you or the other guy or the other fella. We are not comparing these cars under excellent conditions. We are comparing them under not so ideal, more realistic conditions.
Here is one thing you can do. Join BMW CCA (you don't need to own a BMW). Cost is $50 per year. Sign up for the September GVC/Boston Chapters Driving School at the Glen on Sept 23-24. Cost $495 for BMW Club Members. You are at $550 cost now. Car consumables and tech inspection plan on spending $500. Hotel plan on spending $300 (the local motels charge somewhere around $120 per night for out of season rates), Food plan on spending about $55 per day ($15 for lunch and $40 for dinner, you can spend lots more but why would you?), Car insurance plan on $650. That gets you about $2200 max for a weekend at the Glen. You will get yourself an excellent school, an instructor in the car with you and two days of track time. NASA, CHIN and others also put on schools at the Glen but there charges are $115 to $200 more for two days. There is a driver's school there almost every day of the season other than when NASCAR is there or some company rents the track. Phoenix CMR, Trackmasters, PCA and Hooked on Driving all have schools there as well.

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Old 07-12-2018, 04:35 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Palantirion View Post
Anyone notice that the subject of MT's article is the best DRIVER'S car? That would be the Miata, Alfa or a GT-3. No knock against any Vette, but they don't have the quite the same degree of driver connection. Lap times shouldn't matter much if the test is actually for the goal advertised.

Lap times always matter, unless your car mostly drives itself, akin to a GT-R. Some drivers like fast cars. Put that miata on the same track and spend all day with your arm out of the window pointing people by every few laps. That's no fun. A GT2 RS isn't a drivers car, but bet you have a blast driving one, if you aren't scared that is.

BTW I like how you single out the Vette and don't include the turbo GT2RS or 720 in that statement. You are pushing on certified hater level at this point.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy View Post
Lap times always matter, unless your car mostly drives itself, akin to a GT-R. Some drivers like fast cars. Put that miata on the same track and spend all day with your arm out of the window pointing people by every few laps. That's no fun. A GT2 RS isn't a drivers car, but bet you have a blast driving one, if you aren't scared that is.

BTW I like how you single out the Vette and don't include the turbo GT2RS or 720 in that statement. You are pushing on certified hater level at this point.
- Some years ago I tracked a late-'90s Miata the same day as a Gallardo Balboni Edition. My first time in either car (either manufacturer for that matter). The Miata was a better driver's car in every respect, and by a wide margin. The Lambo was much faster. Didn't matter to me; it wasn't fun, it didn't talk to me, it wasn't a good driver's car.

p.s. I wouldn't have ordered a ZR1 if I thought the C7 wasn't a good driver's car.

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Old 07-12-2018, 08:09 AM
  #93  
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I appreciate the input regarding tracking. All taken positively and I will try to follow your advice. Thank you guys, you are great.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:34 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by UnhandledException View Post
You guys who want to talk about FASTER need to look at the lap times of 991.1 GT3 vs 991.2 GT3. There is a 25hp difference yet the difference is 1:27 vs 1:24. 3 seconds for a facelift of the SAME CAR. With ZR1 you have a car that costs $60,000 more, 100hp more, massive aero and pretty much new suspension and tune across the board yet the difference is 1 second.

ZR1 should have posted at least a 1:22 laptime there, it is a huge slap on the face.
Actually the new 991.2 GT3 engine is making more than 500HP, more like 525HP. Its putting down 450-460whp stock while the 991.1 GT3 puts down 400-410whp. I have a 991.2 manual GT3 and raced a modified 991.1 GT3 that is making 460whp and still pulled ahead and kept pulling away.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:03 AM
  #95  
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Skank! Wake up bud! Remember to take a stop watch.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:10 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by truth.b View Post
According to Google Watkins Glen is approx 4h 30mins drive from Manhattan. My advice is to go there and try it out. I live in NC and made the drive (with buddies) and got a chance to drive it years ago post repave. If I lived in any where near New York City, I would make that drive just to run that place again.

Google Maps Link: NYC to The Glen

WG is a great track. A lot of fun and it has a bit of everything. I had the chance to drive it the year before it was repaved but haven't since. I hope to make it out there again soon.

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:20 PM
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And so it begins....





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Old 07-12-2018, 01:03 PM
  #98  
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Hopefully C7 ZR1 Plate Number #45257 Can Bring It On Home




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Old 07-12-2018, 01:17 PM
  #99  
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Oh god thats how this thread ends off. I have teh blue ***** for the lap times
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by I brake for nothing View Post
Oh god thats how this thread ends off. I have teh blue ***** for the lap times

LOL! Brilliant isn't it? That's how you sell magazines....

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