blb078

What exactly have they done? They've took an existing car and added a bigger supercharger, some areo, and weight. It's not like they created an entirely different car. I like the ZR1 but personally I think the Z06 is a better bang for buck deal especially after you add in any discounts you could get off the Z06. Another thing, many parts of the corvette are shared with other platforms, Camaro, Trucks, Cadillac. Such as the engine, transmission, and electronics. So they're able to spread the cost out a lot more than say something like a 720s or Huracan.

What would the price of a ZR1 be if it was the only sports car GM made and none of it's parts where shared between other platforms. It would cost $200k+ or what if 20k Huracan's or 720s where built a year with different levels of performance they'd probably cost $150k for your top level car, so if you compare it apples to apples in that sense it's not some amazing deal. It's easy to talk about the ZR1's price compared to other cars but it has the benefit I just mentioned where other cars don't. I like the car, especially the newer front end. I just don't like it at the price it's at which is why I'll wait a year or two when prices come down on used before I take the plunge.

phil hunter

Just watched the ZR1 vs Hurrican race and must say either the ZR1 driver can't drive, or he needs to take his car back to the dealer because there is something wrong with it. From a dig the Hurrican has the advantage with all wheel drive, so it is likely to win because of traction limitations on the ZR1. However, from a roll the ZR1 should have walked him. ZR1 has 153 more HP and weighs only 48 lbs more.This is a huge advantage! This performance does not speak well for the ZR1.


Phil

Achmed

Under that rationale a Z06 should beat a huracan from a roll too or be comparable since its 40-50 hp more and almost the same weight?

ZoratZ06

Weissach + $31k for LESS ITEMS. - Worth it?
S65 is $82k more than an S63 - Worth it?
GT2RS is DOUBLE the price of a GT3RS - Worth it?
GS v Z06...same car smaller engine...is the Z06 worth the premium?

All examples are very CLOSELY based upon the cheaper car, except they have more HP and a different engine...Just like the ZR1 v Z06 comparison. Yet, people don't seem to be crying foul over that stuff. If it's not for you then fine...but please stop with the value proposition because ALL manufacturers do it. Also, comparing a 'new' model to one that's been out for 3-4 years with discounts is not apples to apples. If you want true value go by a 2016 Z06 with 5k miles on it and add an ext. warranty. But that's a different discussion. GM is absolutely in the ballpark with the ZR1 by charging $20k-$40k over the Z06.

ZR1 fixed the cooling issue.
ZR1 has a NEW engine.
ZR1 has more expensive CF parts.
ZR1 has better aero/df and better overall speed (that's an improvement). front end, splitter, wing etc
ZR1 lower production (due to less demand/price point)

You might not think it's worth it, but to accomplish ALL of those things you'd easily need to spend $20k on a Z06, likely more...AND it'll still be a Z06. If you want to talk about a 'better' comparison, I'd say compare a heavily discounted new Z06 that has been sent to Callaway. Perhaps $100k or less. It's still not as good as the ZR1.

Lastly, all 911's are based off of the same platform: Base 911, GTS, TTS, GT3, GT2 etc, similar to the Stingray, GS, Z06 and ZR1...What would a GT2RS cost if that weren't true? $500k-$700k? Oh wait, they already do! (in the real world). See, we can both play that game. Reality is, the ZR1 punches WAY WAY above it's price point. I haven't heard of McLaren trying to 'limit' production (outside of the Senna). So they are likely trying to sell as many as they can...Give GM credit for being able to sell MORE.

I've owned many different brands of cars...they all have plusses and minusses...So, why does GM seem to get more flack than most? Give them credit for being able to produce a car that is 'generally' available to most people...Not an unobtainable $500-$700k FGT or GT2RS etc...Anyone with $80k-$100k can get into a seriously badass car. At Porsche $80k-$100k gets you a nicely spec'ed CAYMAN!!! (nice car btw). Not a 911 though!! Still can't get the GT4 Cayman...lol.

Cheers! I'm just a car lover, but I'm realistic about brands...none of them walk on water...! They all play games.

NytmereZ

Ghostnotes

2016 C7 Z51 with a large cam, YSi blower, headers etc. should easily keep it at bay. Amount invested....under 60k

blb078

I'm not even sure why you are mentioning value I never said it wasn't a good value compare to higher priced cars. But there is a reason why it's price is lower. It's the same car with some changes. And I'm not even talking about the same platform when talking about spreading out costs. Look at how many different cars, trucks, suvs have some of the same things the Vette has. That is the reason why they are able to keep the costs so low and make the ZR1 140k. Not because they did something crazy special to keep costs down. The GT2 RS isn't going to depreciate, or at least not for a while. Why is is that everyone brings up Porsche when trying to make their Vette argument, it's no secret they are the gold standard on paying more and getting less.

The LT5 isn't a NEW engine. It's the same engine with different parts. Block is the same, heads are same, pistons, same, injectors same. Cam different, crank, rods, throttle body, supercharger are all different, that's what I can think off the top of my head but there's a few more things. So no it's not a new engine, it's a new name on a engine with some different components. But like in the video of this thread, the huracan wins from a dig. People say the reason it won from a dig is the awd, which fine it's a legit argument. However you can't make that type of argument for the performance part of it but not for the price part. The reason why it's cheaper is because they can spread some of the costs out over a lot more vehicles. It's not some secret. So again if 20k different Huracan's or 720s where built each year they'd be a lot cheaper and if only 2500 total vettes where built a year they'd be a lot more expensive.

johnglenntwo

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 9.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 13.7 sec
Zero to 170 mph: 19.9 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 3.8 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.8 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.8 sec @ 135 mph
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 212 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 134 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.18 g

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 2.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 13.3 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 3.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 1.9 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.4 sec @ 135 mph
Top speed (redline ltd, mfr's claim): 202 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 144 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.01 g

Not so bad!

Oh, it gets worse!

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 2.3 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Zero to 100 mph: 5.4 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Zero to 180 mph: 23.2 sec*
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 3.1 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Standing ¼-mile: 10.2 sec @ 136 mph; DR's/ Prep Track
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 202 mph*
Braking, 70-0 mph: 135 ft*
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.11 g*

ZoratZ06

If you think the ZR1/LT5 and Z06/LT4 are basically the same then they're the same. I'm not gonna go round and round with you. R&D costs money. Period. Power, Cooling, Aero etc. This isn't some garage band...

I wonder why McLaren doesn't just lower the price to $150k and then sell 20,000 units. Strange...I can't seem to figure it out.

Outside of Ferrari, just about EVERY car company is trying to sell as many as they can, heck even Ferrari raised production from 7k cars to 9k cars...I can't imagine why they did that. I bet it was to LOWER the prices of the 488GTB for everyone, RFLOL...Surely that must be the reason. It can't be they want to make more money? I wonder if McLaren, Porsche et al have any clue on how to run a profitable car company. I wonder why they didn't think of cutting the price and selling a lot more cars...Strange...

Hats off to GM for the ZR1. No it's not perfect...but it's damn good. Taking a radio and A/C out still costs $31k on a GT2RS. The S65 is still $82k more than the S63...for pretty much a bigger engine. Maybe Mercedes should be the gold standard in extracting more money from customers.

If you think it's so easy...ask Dodge (Viper) and ask Honda (NSX) why they couldn't sell more cars...apparently both are pretty good cars. ZR1 hangs with the best of them...esp. on a track.

Cheers!

SBC_and_a_stick

Imo the Viper didn't sell well because buyers are idiots. That includes me. I simply didn't know how robust the Viper was for track use when I was cross shopping and got the C7 Z instead. I shopped virtually, an aluminum transaxle chassis must be better than an FMR with less aluminum. We shop online knowing little about what the car can do and many buyers don't have any track time under their belt.

The NSX didn't sell because just like any hybrid sports car before it it was meant to be only a show of technology and not up to par with ICE cars built on the same budget.

blb078

Umm, probably because they don't have a dozen other cars to spread out the costs, which is the exact point I made before as to why the ZR1 is so much cheaper than exotic cars??? Maybe just taking a stab at it here.

johnglenntwo

Very high compression sure doesn't mean what it used to.

heavychevy

Buyers are not idiots for not wanting a super cramped, far too late to be refined design. They took 2 generations too long to refine the product. It was hot (inside), cramped as heck, burned your legs getting in and out, sounded like a dumptruck, clunky shifter, poor interior etc. That's not what people wanted for a base price in the 70k range. As you know most of your business comes from return customers. Well the return customers for the Viper killed it. Dodge listened to their demands for too long. I'll get to that later. Even the Gen 5 was cramped, so in spite of all of the refinements, many guys didn't want to feel like they were in a pressure cooker. I'm 6'2 and have to tilt my head sideways with a helmet on.

Keep in mind that the Viper still needed a redesign to meet upcoming safety standards. And to fix the interior space. They just didn't have the following/money/support to make this a viable option. So it died, yet AGAIN.

The Gen 5 was the very first Viper with TRACTION CONTROL!!!!! Are you kidding me!?!? That's 2013 and 2014. And it's because the macho Viper owners club demanded it stay cavemanish. The Gen 4 was essentially the same as the Gen 3, they just called it a gen 4.......huh? I thought it looked fine, but the Viper crowd wanted the classic Gen 2 design back. This is what killed the Viper, lack of refinement and egotistical owners who wanted to beat their chest because their car didn't have traciton control. So old guys were still spinning off in ditches while going slow. They fought it until the bitter end, when it was a mandatory production standard. And even then, some were complaining.

I nearly bought a Gen 2 Viper as a track car when I instead bought my first Porsche Turbo, so I kept up with the Viper Club forums. I argued with those guys for pages on end why the Viper needed TC to survive. And like I said, almost monthly, they had a post of a dude spinning off in a ditch for no reason at low speeds. They said not to try to change the Viper because I couldn't handle one. Uh, WHAT?! I can't handle the car because I have the common sense to see that owners are driving in ditches? So I gave them a chance to see who it was that couldn't drive. Needless to say, no one wanted to put their money where their mouth was on that one. I offered to go to any track in the country. Crickets and excuses.

Most people knew pre Gen 5 Viper drivers as the slowest ones at the track. We had plenty show up in Gen 4 Vipers and get passed by miatas at a NARRA TT event in 2012/2013, but it was a common sight. Most of them were scared to death of the car. Mucho bravado, but really chickens inside. I saw literally one good driver in a Gen 4 ACR, last name was campbell and he used to frequent VIR. Ralph Gilles himself, Luke, Gary and several other guys have been mauling people at various tracks in Gen 5's, so the Gen 5 was the right car. It was still too tight inside to be a mainstream success, but the interior finishing was the BOMB!!!! It was just too little too late to be a mainstream success. All because of the chest beating VOI (Viper Owners Invitational) crowd. It's ok not to want something that's like a Corvette, which was their primary gripe, but they took it too far, and killed the marquee, because dodge listened to them to a fault. The Gen 5 was the car they needed at Gen 3. Refined and with TC. But they held the mantra about 10 years too long.

Oh, and by the way, they weren't gonna take too kindly to something other than a honkin V10 in spite of emissions standards coming to kill it. Hard headed bunch, that crowd.

johnglenntwo

Low production expensive replacement parts gave them exotic insurance rates too.
An easy decision kept me off a telephone pole.

Snorman

Pretty much nailed it.
A few years ago, it was comical when various Viper owners would lecture on this forum about how manly they were for owning a Viper. In fact, that's what is commonly seen even on the Viper forum(s).
The car just never really advanced much. I had a Gen II, sent it to Underground and then had an 950 rwhp car that was a blast to drive, but woefully outdated in 2008. In 2012, the Gen V's were introduced and SRT had a big display at the NYIAS. That same day, I was scheduled to pick up my '13 GT-R at Meadowlands Nissan. But in case I decided to get the Viper instead, I drove over the Jacob Javits on the way to pick up the GT-R. The end result is that I still went and bought the GT-R, lol.
I love my ACR, but as you know, they have their own issues as Luke and Gary will attest. I bought a Gen V because of the ACR. And yeah, it's tight. I have to contort to get into the car with my helmet on and it's actually easier to put on my HANS in the car.
S.
S.

Sub Driver

Do you speak from experience because my insurance rates are just about equal to my previous corvette and less than what I paid for my GTR? Oh wait, never mind, you never speak from experience only magazine articles.

johnglenntwo

It was common knowledge then!

Achmed

The GT R and Huracan looked neck to neck from a roll too right? Has the full race been posted yet? From the short preview it looked indecisive. Maybe that AMG is just faster than expected.

either way if it didn't jump before the vette on the dig it would have lost to the ZR1 just like it did on the roll when they accelerated at the same time (although it was close).

A 1ZR low wing auto ZR1 is the ideal version for straight line races.

NytmereZ

Bwright

Flawless.