Is March the end of the C7 ZR1?
09-27-2018, 07:13 AM
#41
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09-27-2018, 08:24 AM
#42
What’s foolish is to believe the ZR1 is not a collectors car down the road. As beloved as the front engine corvette is, and for this to be the last iteration, cmon man how can you argue against that?!
Last edited by HTXSkydiver; 09-27-2018 at 08:51 AM.
09-27-2018, 08:28 AM
#43
09-27-2018, 09:58 AM
#44
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Not sure where you got that information of 200#s for another 50hp on the C4 LT5. The LT4 was a great engine, probably underrated for its power rating, but the LT5 could easily have gotten another 50hp without any additional weight. The LT5 had an aluminum block, but with its 4 cams, big plenum it was a pretty heavy engine.
The last DOHC LT5 engine was built in 1993, its development stopped before that (after GM had a 475hp version of it) because of emission certification costs.
The last DOHC LT5 engine was built in 1993, its development stopped before that (after GM had a 475hp version of it) because of emission certification costs.
"The planned future LT5 engine with its even more complex valve train would have been 205 pounds heavier than the Al. Gen III. Thus, a Corvette designed around the Gen III Al. engine would weigh around 405 pounds less than the same car designed too use the LT5. As a result, the LT5 engine would have had to generate 55HP more than the Gen III, simply to compensate for the heavier car. With the Gen III generating 405HP and the future LT5 estimated at 475 net HP, the effective power gain would have been a mere 15 horsepower."
09-27-2018, 12:11 PM
#45
They dont even have to live that long, who is going to keep their car for even 10 years? Will they drive it or save the car for the next guy? I'm sure they will have storage for their car too. Too many considerations and I'm willing to bet most owners maybe like 95% will sell the car when the next latest and greatest comes out.
09-27-2018, 12:42 PM
#46
They dont even have to live that long, who is going to keep their car for even 10 years? Will they drive it or save the car for the next guy? I'm sure they will have storage for their car too. Too many considerations and I'm willing to bet most owners maybe like 95% will sell the car when the next latest and greatest comes out.
09-27-2018, 02:11 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
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Page 234 of 'Corvette from the inside' by Dave Mclellan:
"The planned future LT5 engine with its even more complex valve train would have been 205 pounds heavier than the Al. Gen III. Thus, a Corvette designed around the Gen III Al. engine would weigh around 405 pounds less than the same car designed too use the LT5. As a result, the LT5 engine would have had to generate 55HP more than the Gen III, simply to compensate for the heavier car. With the Gen III generating 405HP and the future LT5 estimated at 475 net HP, the effective power gain would have been a mere 15 horsepower."
"The planned future LT5 engine with its even more complex valve train would have been 205 pounds heavier than the Al. Gen III. Thus, a Corvette designed around the Gen III Al. engine would weigh around 405 pounds less than the same car designed too use the LT5. As a result, the LT5 engine would have had to generate 55HP more than the Gen III, simply to compensate for the heavier car. With the Gen III generating 405HP and the future LT5 estimated at 475 net HP, the effective power gain would have been a mere 15 horsepower."
09-27-2018, 05:20 PM
#48
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Again, p.234. Not a mention of emissions but rather the weight of car to weight and hp of engine. You had hp, the weight, in the 90's, was extra weight to other portions of vehicle on a one to one. With the development of the LSX on the way the decision to drop the extra HP of the LT5 was one of weight/hp ratio - engine and car. Not my words, the words of Dave Mclellan, the chief engineer at the time.
09-27-2018, 06:11 PM
#49
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I was looking at Boardwalk Chevrolet's website on the ZR1 page and one of the bullet points stated "Limited 1-year run". Not sure why they would advertise this is if not true.
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duanesZ06 (09-27-2018)
09-27-2018, 06:33 PM
#51
Although I believe that to be true, it just haven’t been confirmed yet.
Last edited by D'ZR1 Messiah; 09-27-2018 at 06:35 PM.
09-27-2018, 08:37 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
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Again, p.234. Not a mention of emissions but rather the weight of car to weight and hp of engine. You had hp, the weight, in the 90's, was extra weight to other portions of vehicle on a one to one. With the development of the LSX on the way the decision to drop the extra HP of the LT5 was one of weight/hp ratio - engine and car. Not my words, the words of Dave Mclellan, the chief engineer at the time.
IIRC, it was determined that to add another 50hp to the '95 LT5 would require another 200#'s added weight so they went with the LT4 instead. It was sort of like 6 to one or half dozen to the other. I love my '96 LT4. (However, I do need room in the garages if anyone is interested) 
My 1995 ZR1 weighed 3420lbs. How much does your 1996 weigh?
Last edited by range96; 09-27-2018 at 09:22 PM.
09-27-2018, 09:26 PM
#54
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The comparison Dave made was between the LT5 and the LS1, not comparing the 405HP LT5 to the 475HP LT5! The iron block LT4 was almost as heavy as the LT5. What killed the LT5 was the cost of meeting the new emission standard and certifying it. It was cheaper to produce the LS1. The additional weight reduction came from the C4 to C5 change.
Dave titled the last paragraph on page 233; "Why the Gen III doomed the LT5"
You ought to get the book. It is very informative about much of the development of all vehicles, vettes in particular.
09-28-2018, 12:07 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
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Although we are really getting off the subject of this thread according to Dave what killed the LT5 was not emissions but rather weight compared to the new Gen III lsx series engines. The higher hp LT5 would have weighed 205#'s more than the LSX and would have required another 200#'s elsewhere on the vehicle ("Studies based on a large population of modern cars have given us the standard relationship between engine weight and total vehicle weight. Increasing an engine's weight by one pound means that the total car's weight will likely increase by two pounds." - p.234.)
Dave titled the last paragraph on page 233; "Why the Gen III doomed the LT5"
You ought to get the book. It is very informative about much of the development of all vehicles, vettes in particular.
Dave titled the last paragraph on page 233; "Why the Gen III doomed the LT5"
You ought to get the book. It is very informative about much of the development of all vehicles, vettes in particular.
09-28-2018, 12:25 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
One-off CF pieces
Does anyone have info on the one-off CF pieces the ZR1 has? Did GM commit to source them for a single model year from its suppliers? I'm thinking of the front splitter, hood, cowl, rocker panels, spoilers. Someone here should know this and that will tell us if the ZR1 is being killed by the end of March 2019!
09-29-2018, 02:50 AM
#58
Melting Slicks
My intel tells me C7 is dead and all 2020 models will be C8/ME. March 2019 is the end of ZR1 C7 production, those with a manual ZR1 will have a rare car. The C7 ZR1 will be the last high powered FE corvette with a manual option ever produced. How many manuals sports cars are being produced with over 700 HP today, shrug can you say rare.
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-29-2018 at 03:08 AM.
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Racerdj (09-29-2018)
09-29-2018, 04:26 AM
#59
Drifting
My intel tells me C7 is dead and all 2020 models will be C8/ME. March 2019 is the end of ZR1 C7 production, those with a manual ZR1 will have a rare car. The C7 ZR1 will be the last high powered FE corvette with a manual option ever produced. How many manuals sports cars are being produced with over 700 HP today, shrug can you say rare.
Sadly, in the camp of Spring ‘19 ZR1 end, Fall C7 end...Rumblings from Canadian exec sources at GM.
I’d keep the C7 ZR1 if I had one...last FE RWD, highest HP ever...but expect it would depreciate.
On a different note, it will be interesting to see how GM advertises/markets the C8. A HUGE CELEBRATE ME campaign - which should be the case - could have a more significant impact on C7 values.
09-29-2018, 07:13 AM
#60
No one can predict the future values with certainty. I sold my MT 2007 F430 and put money in my business during the recession. Still the right thing to have been done, but I have since then three times tried to buy it back. Look at the premiums of MT F-430 over the F-1 transmissions for sale. Having one of the last MT Corvettes is one of my current goals.