Motor Trend destroys the 2019 ZR1
10-07-2018, 10:25 AM
#21
Race Director
'
Gimme a break....
Go on youtube and you can find literally HUNDREDS of low speed crashes involving Ferraris/Mclarens/Lamborghinis. Crashing high horsepower cars is EASY since it requires only ONE of the following:
1. Decide you actually ARE this generation's Ayrton Senna
2. Not knowing that those big gumball tires need HEAT to work
3. Cutting off the nannies because that's what REAL MEN do.
4. ETC.
The electronic systems on the C7 generation have been widely praised, I get so sick of this "the Europeans do it better" speech. How many ITALIAN electronic appliances do YOU own?
Dont get upset now. When you buy a high HP vehicle, you need to learn to drive it. You dont just go out thinking you are all that and a bag of chips.
GMs cars arent Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghinis. You know, they put allot of engineering behind their cars, and amongst other things, pretty sophisticated traction control. .
GM, nothing. They put the minimum required, due to bean counters. The engineers are great, but, the company wont let them loose. Anyone can make power, getting it to the ground requires money.
Many test drivers have wrecked high end cars too..Not news.
GMs cars arent Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghinis. You know, they put allot of engineering behind their cars, and amongst other things, pretty sophisticated traction control. .
GM, nothing. They put the minimum required, due to bean counters. The engineers are great, but, the company wont let them loose. Anyone can make power, getting it to the ground requires money.
Many test drivers have wrecked high end cars too..Not news.
Go on youtube and you can find literally HUNDREDS of low speed crashes involving Ferraris/Mclarens/Lamborghinis. Crashing high horsepower cars is EASY since it requires only ONE of the following:
1. Decide you actually ARE this generation's Ayrton Senna
2. Not knowing that those big gumball tires need HEAT to work
3. Cutting off the nannies because that's what REAL MEN do.
4. ETC.
The electronic systems on the C7 generation have been widely praised, I get so sick of this "the Europeans do it better" speech. How many ITALIAN electronic appliances do YOU own?
Last edited by jimmyb; 10-07-2018 at 10:26 AM.
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10-07-2018, 10:30 AM
#22
Damn, they are out in full swing today...
10-07-2018, 10:57 AM
#23
Race Director
^^^^^
Indeed they are.
And the proof:
Even $2,000,000 worth of Italian engineering can't fix stupid.
Indeed they are.
And the proof:
Even $2,000,000 worth of Italian engineering can't fix stupid.
Last edited by jimmyb; 10-07-2018 at 10:57 AM.
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10-07-2018, 10:59 AM
#24
Drifting
Come on now, we all know Corvettes are cheap compared to most exotics and under engineered for the HP.
And getting around a track is not a true test of awesomeness, reliability. And yes, Ferraris and other high end cars have some problems, but cheapness is not one of them.
Corvettes are like Glocks in a HK/SIG world. Yes they shoot, but you have to modify the crap out of them to shoot straight.
And getting around a track is not a true test of awesomeness, reliability. And yes, Ferraris and other high end cars have some problems, but cheapness is not one of them.
Corvettes are like Glocks in a HK/SIG world. Yes they shoot, but you have to modify the crap out of them to shoot straight.
10-07-2018, 11:00 AM
#25
History has a way of repeating itself. Most of you are too young to have seen this, but as a high schooler in the mid-sixties, in a small town in Texas, I watched as too much torque and too little tire overcame lot's of testosterone, big egos, and abundant enthusiasm. The result was big block C-2 Corvettes wrapped around light poles, smashed into guard rails, and buried in bar ditches. Several local fatalities due to speed, flimsy seat belts, and no air bags. My dad took me to the back of a Chevrolet dealership and made me look at the remains of a brand new 67 big block that had been wrapped around a concrete base of a light pole at very high speed, and killed an 18 year-old local "hot-rodder". The big block C2s were a leap ahead in the performance category, and folks just had to learn RESPECT for its capabilities - and its shortcomings.
Pappy
Pappy
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10-07-2018, 11:02 AM
#26
When I got my C5 Z06, I found that I had to spend a lot of time setting up the alignment, especially with the rear, and I couldn't used the factory settings and get good results. The C6 Z06 was the same way. I can only imagine that the ZR1 requires even more attention. But even with a setting that allowed me to drive 100% with driver aids turned off, I couldn't just jump on the throttle. My guess is that the car that MT was driving had missed the mark on set up, which seems to be pretty critical with this car. The Lightning Lap car seemed to do much better with the driver comments indicating that they could get on the power earlier than what they expected, which is pretty much the opposite of the BDC experience. But whatever the case, I think ZR1 drivers would be best advised to treat the throttle with a LOT of respect.
10-07-2018, 11:18 AM
#27
Instructor
I think that the rear end alignment might be causing some of these problems. My Z06 was really squirrley at WOT, tires hot or cold. When I got my ZR1 I was really worried about how it would be with the increase in power. I have found my ZR1 to be much better controllable under WOT, tires hot or cold.
I had always felt the my Z06's problems were alignment, but couldn't find someone in town to the job. I think that I have just been lucky, that my ZR1 came from the factory with the proper alignment.
I had always felt the my Z06's problems were alignment, but couldn't find someone in town to the job. I think that I have just been lucky, that my ZR1 came from the factory with the proper alignment.
10-07-2018, 11:30 AM
#28
Le Mans Master
Gee, I can't speak for anyone else but if I mashed the throttle in 2nd gear in a 750+ hp front engine sports car and all hell didn't break loose, I'd be extremely disappointed. Might even want my money back.
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10-07-2018, 12:02 PM
#29
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10-07-2018, 12:12 PM
#30
Team Owner
When the new ZR1 was introduced every car magazine hailed it as the Corvette that destroys Super Cars. At VIR it blew the doors off the lap time. It seems like every few weeks something negative happens to ZR1. MT is right, the car makes tons of Horse Power, but it can't keep the tires on the road. Last week I tested a manual ZR1. We finally got some cooler weather in Orange County & I headed to the toll road. The entrance was a straight road which takes you to the Tollway. I was accelerating in 1st, shifted into 2nd and stepped on the throttle and all hell broke loose. The rear of the car literally jumped up & the rear moved to the right. Then it jumped all the way to the left. The ZR1 was in Sport1 and the electronics saved the car from doing a 360. Even on the toll road when in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd the tires continued to break free from the road under hard acceleration. A powerful engine with a mediocre suspension at best.
Come on now, we all know Corvettes are cheap compared to most exotics and under engineered for the HP.
And getting around a track is not a true test of awesomeness, reliability. And yes, Ferraris and other high end cars have some problems, but cheapness is not one of them.
Corvettes are like Glocks in a HK/SIG world. Yes they shoot, but you have to modify the crap out of them to shoot straight.
And getting around a track is not a true test of awesomeness, reliability. And yes, Ferraris and other high end cars have some problems, but cheapness is not one of them.
Corvettes are like Glocks in a HK/SIG world. Yes they shoot, but you have to modify the crap out of them to shoot straight.
Mod them with the huge and finest AFTERMARKET in the world.
That doesn't carry "Ferraris" ? PARTS? HAHA!
and they mop the exotic's! American made and kicks ***!
I've always wondered why the Vette has trouble putting power down. My Z06 felt more powerful than it actually was because it was always spinning tire, and every Vette I've driven has felt the same. The Vette diehards say it's just a function of high power RWD cars, but my ACR has zero drama and very rarely breaks the tires loose, even when burying the throttle in 1st gear. My observation is the traction difference is night and day.
The Z06 benefits from the Aftermarket DCS shock controller. Allows more weight to bias towards the rear tires on acceleration
Greatly helping traction Not sure when they will out for the ZR1.
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10-07-2018, 01:43 PM
#33
10-07-2018, 01:45 PM
#34
It doesn't have anything to do with a mediocre suspension. That's simply what you get with an extremely high-powered, front engine, rear-wheel-drive car, without very careful throttle modulation, especially in cooler temperatures.
The rearward weight bias of the M8 should help with this, as would all-wheel-drive.
The rearward weight bias of the M8 should help with this, as would all-wheel-drive.
‘One of my neighbors recently bought a Mercedes AMG GT R with 577 HP. He had the HP increased to 825 for about $20,000. Even under heavy acceleration it does not come close to breaking free.
10-07-2018, 01:45 PM
#35
This is exactly what I'm talking about...you can't mash the throttle and not expect the tires to break loose. Try watching a NASCAR race. During a restart, you frequently see one of the cars suddenly lose track position. It's usually caused by wheelspin when the driver uses too much throttle. Your ZR1 probably has more torque than the NASCAR V8. You need to roll into the throttle, not mash it.
10-07-2018, 01:56 PM
#36
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‘This works great on the street but not on the track. I exchange e mails with Randy Pobst every so often. He said the ZR1 is a handful of car accelerating out of a corner in 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He has to bring up power slowly.
‘One of my neighbors recently bought a Mercedes AMG GT R with 577 HP. He had the HP increased to 825 for about $20,000. Even under heavy acceleration it does not come close to breaking free.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 10-07-2018 at 01:56 PM.
10-07-2018, 03:13 PM
#37
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This works great on the street but not on the track. I exchange e mails with Randy Pobst every so often. He said the ZR1 is a handful of car accelerating out of a corner in 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He has to bring up power slowly.
‘One of my neighbors recently bought a Mercedes AMG GT R with 577 HP. He had the HP increased to 825 for about $20,000. Even under heavy acceleration it does not come close to breaking free.
‘One of my neighbors recently bought a Mercedes AMG GT R with 577 HP. He had the HP increased to 825 for about $20,000. Even under heavy acceleration it does not come close to breaking free.
Is that still true for your neighbor's souped up GTR? Probably, but I wouldn't know for sure without seeing his dyno graph.
One can't just mash the throttle out of a corner on a ZR1, and expect it to behave like a Miata.
One more really pertinent question:
Which traction control and stability control settings was your neighbor using on his Mercedes AMG GTR? Some of them, on both the Corvettes and GTR's are pretty forgiving of driving mistakes.
In other words, you really haven't given us nearly enough information to be able to determine much of anything.
10-07-2018, 04:57 PM
#38
When the new ZR1 was introduced every car magazine hailed it as the Corvette that destroys Super Cars. At VIR it blew the doors off the lap time. It seems like every few weeks something negative happens to ZR1. MT is right, the car makes tons of Horse Power, but it can't keep the tires on the road. Last week I tested a manual ZR1. We finally got some cooler weather in Orange County & I headed to the toll road. The entrance was a straight road which takes you to the Tollway. I was accelerating in 1st, shifted into 2nd and stepped on the throttle and all hell broke loose. The rear of the car literally jumped up & the rear moved to the right. Then it jumped all the way to the left. The ZR1 was in Sport1 and the electronics saved the car from doing a 360. Even on the toll road when in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd the tires continued to break free from the road under hard acceleration. A powerful engine with a mediocre suspension at best.
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10-07-2018, 07:30 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor;1598115862[b
]It doesn't have anything to do with a mediocre suspension. That's simply what you get with an extremely high-powered, front engine, rear-wheel-drive car, without very careful throttle modulation, especially in cooler temperatures.[/b]
The rearward weight bias of the M8 should help with this, as would all-wheel-drive.
The rearward weight bias of the M8 should help with this, as would all-wheel-drive.
There will be those that have never experienced overwhelming power to cold tires. I don't mean cold ambient temperatures but cold tires as in only as warm as ambient temps on a hot summer day. All ZR1 owners should understand why NASCAR drivers jerk the car from side to side during warm up to green flag!
10-07-2018, 07:33 PM
#40
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‘This works great on the street but not on the track. I exchange e mails with Randy Pobst every so often. He said the ZR1 is a handful of car accelerating out of a corner in 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He has to bring up power slowly.
‘One of my neighbors recently bought a Mercedes AMG GT R with 577 HP. He had the HP increased to 825 for about $20,000. Even under heavy acceleration it does not come close to breaking free.
Wow. It's a shame they forgot to give him torque to go along with those horses.