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Motor Trend destroys the 2019 ZR1

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Old 10-07-2018, 07:45 PM
  #41  
range96
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Originally Posted by Izzy1000


‘This works great on the street but not on the track. I exchange e mails with Randy Pobst every so often. He said the ZR1 is a handful of car accelerating out of a corner in 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He has to bring up power slowly.
‘One of my neighbors recently bought a Mercedes AMG GT R with 577 HP. He had the HP increased to 825 for about $20,000. Even under heavy acceleration it does not come close to breaking free.
The AMG GT R has a 4 liter turbo motor, 516 lb-ft. The ZR1 has a 6.2 liter supercharged motor, 715lb-ft. You do understand that torque is what breaks tire loose, not horsepower, right? I can't imagine the modified GT R will make more torque at low RPM than what the ZR1 has stock.
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:23 PM
  #42  
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Before modding, my Corvettes throughout the years have had 345, 505, 638, 650, and now 755hp. I've never had issues with, nor thought they were dangerous. I've always kept a healthy respect for throttle application and have been able to go fast on the street and the track with little concern for my safety with an "under engineered" car. I don't think adding 100 hp makes this car any more dangerous than any other Corvette in proper hands.
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:26 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor
It doesn't have anything to do with a mediocre suspension. That's simply what you get with an extremely high-powered, front engine, rear-wheel-drive car, without very careful throttle modulation, especially in cooler temperatures.

The rearward weight bias of the M8 should help with this, as would all-wheel-drive.
Agreed. Manual has more aggressive gearing, lower gears are worse... BUT it does come with this thing to the right of the brake used to modulate acceleration LOL Thinking you can flat foot a 700whp vehicle that isn't AWD esp in cooler weather on summer tires is unreasonable. As for MT, that publication like most are crap IMO, biased editors, a couple good drivers and the rest roll a Prius on the regular it seems by the reviews. Spend more seat time in it, get used to it, and you'll own the road if you're a "driver"

Last edited by Steve Garrett; 10-15-2018 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Fixed Quote Box
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:26 PM
  #44  
Newton06
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Originally Posted by Izzy1000
When the new ZR1 was introduced every car magazine hailed it as the Corvette that destroys Super Cars. At VIR it blew the doors off the lap time. It seems like every few weeks something negative happens to ZR1. MT is right, the car makes tons of Horse Power, but it can't keep the tires on the road. Last week I tested a manual ZR1. We finally got some cooler weather in Orange County & I headed to the toll road. The entrance was a straight road which takes you to the Tollway. I was accelerating in 1st, shifted into 2nd and stepped on the throttle and all hell broke loose. The rear of the car literally jumped up & the rear moved to the right. Then it jumped all the way to the left. The ZR1 was in Sport1 and the electronics saved the car from doing a 360. Even on the toll road when in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd the tires continued to break free from the road under hard acceleration. A powerful engine with a mediocre suspension at best.
This is a really ignorant post.

"I took a 755 HP RWD car out of the street today & stabbed the throttle & it stepped out. Therefore, it must have crap suspension'.

LOL.

Did you even check the tire pressures?

Today, while instructing at VIR, I was able to jump in the right seat of a ZR1 equipped with Hoosier slicks driven by a very capable driver (not quite at Sean's level, but fast & solid).

I have a 2018 Z06 and was not expecting such a dramatic difference.

To say the ZR1 has 'mediocre suspension' is BS. Plain and simple from someone basing that assertion tooling around on the interstate.

We clicked some 2:05's in traffic and the car was glued to the track. It handled curbing & sliding with ease, and even driver mistakes and mid-corner corrections while coming across as extremely forgiving.

Coming out of T1, the rear stepped out but it was not a big deal.

I got out very impressed

Last edited by Newton06; 10-07-2018 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:28 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider
You mean like this guy who is a seasoned driver on a race track?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyKODVVdpDY
Oh for God's sake.

Have you even been in a ZR1, or any car for that matter at speed on a road course?

Last edited by Newton06; 10-07-2018 at 09:28 PM.
Old 10-07-2018, 10:12 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by dgerstel
I think that the rear end alignment might be causing some of these problems. My Z06 was really squirrley at WOT, tires hot or cold. When I got my ZR1 I was really worried about how it would be with the increase in power. I have found my ZR1 to be much better controllable under WOT, tires hot or cold.

I had always felt the my Z06's problems were alignment, but couldn't find someone in town to the job. I think that I have just been lucky, that my ZR1 came from the factory with the proper alignment.
My '16 Z M7 would "step out" easily in 1st & even 2nd with a "Stab" on the throttle from 40mph. Even a NLS at 3rd was scary BUT THEN when I bought 4 new MPSSs (worn out at 13K) & had a proper (DSC) alignment done, the transition was incredible!!! I can now go "***** to the wall"-1st, 2nd, etc. with no drama (tires hot) after alignment. This beast became a real joy from then on.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:19 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by krackenvette
Come on now, we all know Corvettes are cheap compared to most exotics and under engineered for the HP.
And getting around a track is not a true test of awesomeness, reliability. And yes, Ferraris and other high end cars have some problems, but cheapness is not one of them.
.
i have been quite critical of the c7z06 and zr1. I own a c7z06. These cars have a lot in common with the rental car fleet impalas and Malibu’s. And that’s not a bad thing. I have been in new Ferrari’s and lambos and the quality ain’t that good. The first thing that comes to mind sitting behind the wheel of these exotics is “kit car”. Quality ain’t that great in stuff coming from Italy. A Benz or Porsche is the high water mark.

Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 10-07-2018 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:41 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
Maybe you should pay more attention to Poor-Sha's videos so you can see how it is done properly. As he indicated a lot of the problems are due to the tires not being hot. The tread has to be up around 190 degrees F for good traction. Spirited driving on the street will get them up into the low 130s at best.

Bill
good info! I knew the tires had to be warmed up but had no idea you had to get that much heat into them
Old 10-08-2018, 01:11 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Mcrider
Do you know ANYTHING about him? You might want to do a bit of research on his driving background.
I did check Reuss out and he’s rated as one of GMs best drivers. Based on what Pobst has said abt the car and IndyCar drivers have said abt the turn 2 at Belle Isle, he may have been a little overconfident to go nannies off while getting unlucky. This car does seem to take some skill and practice to handle the torque, which is what others are saying. I got the sense he did something looser than he should have, which may be why he was apologizing for letting GM down.

Last edited by Parcival; 10-08-2018 at 01:15 AM.
Old 10-08-2018, 02:09 AM
  #50  
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Aaah I thought that Ferrari licensed magnetic suspension technology from Corvette. If so, are those that are saying the corvette suspension is crap but Ferraris isnt somehow magically saying because a prancing horse is on it it is better?

My favorite of these arguements is comparing the vette to cars that are 2-4x as much as a vette, but somehow vette owners are getting screwed. GMAB.
Old 10-08-2018, 02:10 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by charlierogers
good info! I knew the tires had to be warmed up but had no idea you had to get that much heat into them
Look at Poor-Sha's videos where he posts a complete session from pit out to checker flag. He doesn't run flat out in the corners and brings speed up into the triple digits on the straights to put some heat in the tires before leaning on them in the corners. It usually takes 1-2 laps before the tires are ready and running at the triple digit speeds on the straights is what really brings the temp and tire pressures up where they need to be.

Bill
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:49 AM
  #52  
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The rear of the car jumped from the right all the way to the left in mid air????

Suuurrreee it did......

Sounds like wheel hop... And someone who doesn't understand high hp cars on cold tires.


Old 10-08-2018, 08:59 AM
  #53  
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So easy to get Corvette owners panties in a wad.. LOL
Have a good one ..Save the Wave
Old 10-08-2018, 09:28 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by krackenvette
So easy to get Corvette owners panties in a wad.. LOL
Have a good one ..Save the Wave
Nahhhhhhhhh I laugh at ridiculous posts, jump in my ZR and enjoy all the fun it has to offer
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:33 AM
  #55  
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You guys have a point about feathering the throttle etc and the car being a very good car from your personal view.

However, we have seen far too many similar reviews about ZR1 (the car and driver article, gt2rs vs zr1 article, MT review, Edmunds review) that all say the same thing (and there are 2 other reviews that I m forgetting). In fact, I think there are more negative reviews than positive reviews.

Do you think all the reviews are just lying and making things up? Do you think they may have a point? Or is it just some conspiracy against americans and Detroit?
Old 10-08-2018, 09:36 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by UnhandledException
You guys have a point about feathering the throttle etc and the car being a very good car from your personal view.

However, we have seen far too many similar reviews about ZR1 (the car and driver article, gt2rs vs zr1 article, MT review, Edmunds review) that all say the same thing (and there are 2 other reviews that I m forgetting). In fact, I think there are more negative reviews than positive reviews.

Do you think all the reviews are just lying and making things up? Do you think they may have a point? Or is it just some conspiracy against americans and Detroit?
I'll take advice from REAL OWNERS, REAL DRIVERS , we all know how REAL (FAKE) the news is these days ............................



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Old 10-08-2018, 09:40 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by 09Z06pj
Gee, I can't speak for anyone else but if I mashed the throttle in 2nd gear in a 750+ hp front engine sports car and all hell didn't break loose, I'd be extremely disappointed. Might even want my money back.
haha I agree

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Old 10-08-2018, 09:40 AM
  #58  
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:57 AM
  #59  
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The ZR1 should not be sold with Cup 2 tires, no grip until there heated up. For $130K car they should switch them to MPSS for you.
95% of the ZR1s will never be driven on the track. With cold weather coming, there will be more accidents.
Safe driving, it's an amazing car
Old 10-08-2018, 11:13 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by krackenvette
Dont get upset now. When you buy a high HP vehicle, you need to learn to drive it. You dont just go out thinking you are all that and a bag of chips.
GMs cars arent Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghinis. You know, they put allot of engineering behind their cars, and amongst other things, pretty sophisticated traction control. .
GM, nothing. They put the minimum required, due to bean counters. The engineers are great, but, the company wont let them loose. Anyone can make power, getting it to the ground requires money.
Many test drivers have wrecked high end cars too..Not news.

Hardly a seasoned race car driver, General Motors Executive Vice President of Global Product Development Mark Reuss ? ...lol
I am not a pro race car driver but I do own several Corvettes including a C7 Z06 and the new C7 ZR1 ZTK Coupe. I have not driven the ZR1 all that much since August but I have driven enough to evaluate the ZR1 compared to a Z06 and my ZL1 Camaro. I had the MRC upgrade performed on the Z06. Not to disparage your comments but I do not agree that GM does nothing or the minimum required especially when it comes to the suspension on the Corvettes and other performance cars. GM developed the Magnetic Ride Control systems and has continuously upgraded the MRC systems over time. As early as the 1970s GM introduced an early form of traction control on Buick full-size models and further delevoped a "traction monitoring system" for the Cadillac Eldorado. Many of the other cars you mention have used the GM patented MRC via license from GM. I am not saying the Corvettes are always better handling than the Porches, Ferraris and Lamborghinis but most of these cars have different engineering compared to a front engine ZR1. I do not agree that nothing or the minimum engineering is a consequence of the GM so-called "bean counters." All of these performance cars have "bean counters" watching over the development and production of their respective vehicles. GM cars have always been financially restricted to produce a competitive performance vehicle for one-half or sometimes even one-third of the competitor prices. In the recent past and currently, GM engineers have spent countless hours developing new frames, steering, brakes, tires and suspension to make these cars competitive. I do not consider this a minimum effort. With all the variables involved I believe GM has made these cars equivalent to the other vehicles in the performance class. Again, not to say that a Corvette ZR1 or other Corvette models out perform all of them in each case. The driver and other variables always have an effect on the result of any test or race event.

As far as Mark Reuss, General Motors Executive Vice President of Global Product Development, he is GM's greatest proponent for the Corvette models and I seriously believe that were it not for him we would not be enjoying Corvettes, including the Z06 and ZR1, today. I do know Reuss is a licensed competitive race car driver and has spent much time in development at the track and as a driver in numerous racing events. To criticize him for the widely publicized ZR1 crash as being indicative of his race driving abilities is unfair. I agree that nobody should just think they are a qualified competent driver by virtue of the fact they own any performance vehicle. Plainly said, these new Corvettes, including the forthcoming C8, are powerful beasts. People should make the effort to learn and familiarize themselves with the characteristics of their cars. Even so, anyone can have an accident on or off the track.
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