Move from FE to ME presents new challenge to Corvette Racing
#21
I’m no accustics expert for sure... you may be right but all I know is that the ME at Nurbugring sounds nothing like my LT5... no external baffles as needed on the ZR1 there either. Here’s another’s opinion: https://youtu.be/khg8cFW3e44
Anyways, that sound is definitely NOT naturally aspirated. Its a typical muted twin turbo V-8 that you see anything from M5 to E63AMG to 570/675/720s to you name it what else. I drive a shelby gt350 so i know what flat plane crank v8 sounds like.
#22
Le Mans Master
lol at thinking the race team cares what the OEM engine is.
#23
Le Mans Master
#24
Drifting
Thread Starter
500 hp out of 5.5 L nat asp is quite respectible. Especially when you consider it is air/fuel restricted under BoP rules. Pretty sure they run 106 Octane race fuel and wind to over 8k rpm. The first year they ran the 5.5 at Lemans they had failures. RACE DIRECTOR Doug Fehan said they later resimulated the race on a dyno and it failed again at around the same time(i think 18 hrs).. the cam shaft was fatigue twisting from the higher RPM and alllowed the furthest away cylinder from the cam gear to have piston valve contact. Crazy stuff.
#25
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#26
I dont know what to say. Doesnt this go against Corvette culture? Many people buy this car for its sound and character.
#27
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I don't see how one would know. At 2:36 in the video, where one can hear a ZR1(?) and the M8 together, the M8 seems a little quieter, but that could be due to a lot of things, including GM deciding to use a quieter muffler.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 10-17-2018 at 09:01 AM.
#28
plus, given the sheer size of that car, there is just no way they will have a powerful engine without twin turbo v8. A supercharger wont fit and they cant bring a pure N/A engine.
its much easier to have 1 twin turbo engine as underlying architecture and add more power for each variant like mclaren does. Mclaren has the same block design and same architecture for all their cars be it $250k 570s or million dollar senna.
#29
ME C8R in 2020
The C7R will be running next season - that's directly from Doug Fehan of Corvette Racing at Road Atlanta last weekend. When the next generation Corvette is available you can expect to see it on the track (likely 2020) that's directly from Doug Fehan of Corvette Racing at Road Atlanta last weekend.
R
I'm not so sure we will see a C8 team in racing. The car hasn't even been released yet and Daytona is at the end of January. That leaves very little time to take an entirely new platform to racing at a world class level.
There is zero gain to push the C8 into racing before they are 150% ready and everything to lose. The C7 platform is tried and true and will be sold to customers through at least 2019. I believe, based on what little knowledge is out there right now about the C8, that it will be the C7 racing next year.
What I do expect to see, is an expansion of Corvette racing to Europe for a full schedule, and possibly Asia.
There is zero gain to push the C8 into racing before they are 150% ready and everything to lose. The C7 platform is tried and true and will be sold to customers through at least 2019. I believe, based on what little knowledge is out there right now about the C8, that it will be the C7 racing next year.
What I do expect to see, is an expansion of Corvette racing to Europe for a full schedule, and possibly Asia.
#30
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This is getting a little weird. There's no such thing as a "twin turbo bark". Any engine may or may not do it, depending on what's done with the fueling and spark during the shift. This particular M8 is probably a dual-clutch transmission, which means it probably interrupts fuel or ignition (or both) on the upshift. But even A8 automatics do this on some full-throttle up-shifts, so they will "bark" on some upshifts too. What you can hear on some turbos is a blowoff valve opening during a shift, but a DCT or automatic would be unlikely to do this, cutting fuel or ignition instead to preserve boost.
Also, on some cars, they'll cut the spark, but not the fueling, so a backfire is heard on an upshift, and that's another sort of "bark".
Unlike McLaren, GM has a plethora of off-the-shelf engine platforms to choose from, including the new Cadillac twin-turbo, so their choices are much less limited than McLaren's. Why would anyone expect McLaren's and GM's strategies to be the same?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 10-17-2018 at 01:28 PM.
#31
Drifting
Thread Starter
Its the twin turbo bark you hear at upshifts, very typical. I have about 45,000 miles in twin turbo v8s using various exhausts. I know how they sound.
plus, given the sheer size of that car, there is just no way they will have a powerful engine without twin turbo v8. A supercharger wont fit and they cant bring a pure N/A engine.
its much easier to have 1 twin turbo engine as underlying architecture and add more power for each variant like mclaren does. Mclaren has the same block design and same architecture for all their cars be it $250k 570s or million dollar senna.
#32
Le Mans Master
500 hp out of 5.5 L nat asp is quite respectible. Especially when you consider it is air/fuel restricted under BoP rules. Pretty sure they run 106 Octane race fuel and wind to over 8k rpm. The first year they ran the 5.5 at Lemans they had failures. RACE DIRECTOR Doug Fehan said they later resimulated the race on a dyno and it failed again at around the same time(i think 18 hrs).. the cam shaft was fatigue twisting from the higher RPM and alllowed the furthest away cylinder from the cam gear to have piston valve contact. Crazy stuff.
#33
Drifting
Thread Starter
at some point not far off the venerable smallblock pushrod will say goodbye. In the IMSA factory racing Vettes as well. Some variation of the 4.2 Twin turbo is the likely replacement. Maybe less displacement or lower boost than the street version in a significantly lighter car.
#34
I went to Chevrolet's public display on the infield during the Daytona 24 and they had the 5.5 liter race motor on display. The information that accompanied the engine was that it made somewhere around 500 hp at something like 4,500 rpm (this is from memory that's more than a few years old, so I might be off a little). I was shocked by how low the rpm was measured, but I have to say that, listening to audio from in-car camera shots, it doesn't sound like it's being wound out to super high rpm like the NASCAR engines (9,000 rpm). For an endurance engine, this is probably a better situation if you can get the power without having to spin it really fast.
#35
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it has twin turbos in the engine valley.. heads are on reversed with exhaust ports facing inward and intake ports outward. the Caddy designed OHC V8 engines have already been revealed. 4.2 and 5.2 liter is the displacement I believe. I can see heat related challenges for them on the track.
Some of the emphasis for higher power from smaller displacement originated in some parts of Europe, where vehicles were taxed according to displacement. We don't need to worry about that yet in the US, but who knows how much GM's ultimate marketing strategy involves future sales in Europe, Japan or elsewhere?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 10-17-2018 at 02:59 PM.
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#36
500 hp out of 5.5 L nat asp is quite respectible. Especially when you consider it is air/fuel restricted under BoP rules. Pretty sure they run 106 Octane race fuel and wind to over 8k rpm. The first year they ran the 5.5 at Lemans they had failures. RACE DIRECTOR Doug Fehan said they later resimulated the race on a dyno and it failed again at around the same time(i think 18 hrs).. the cam shaft was fatigue twisting from the higher RPM and alllowed the furthest away cylinder from the cam gear to have piston valve contact. Crazy stuff.
They run an E20 blend of race fuel. They do not even get close to 8k rpm. They are limited by the bop of a MAX rpm of 6800. They shift at about 6k rpm depending on if they need to stretch a gear for corners (but are still hard limited to the 6800). Even if they were not limited in max rpm by bop they would never be able to spin it that fast and make power with the tiny air restrictors they use (bop mandated 31.6mm for both of the restrictors). Corvette racing has never lost an engine due to failure in the whole C7 run. In the early races they had trouble with the DI fuel pump but no motor failures. Also they had a few dnf with overheating due to radiator leaks. Doug Fehan is the Program Manager, not race director. The first year of the C7 at Le Mans they took 2nd place, they did not loose a motor. My info is from living and breathing Corvette Racing, actually watching all the racing, and I have friends that are crew members for the #3 car.
#37
i dont know how else to say this, that car on the nurburgring video is not a naturally aspirated engine. NA engine sounds very different. We are talking about pure magnitute and clarity of the engine sound. A turbo engine has that typical muted engine sound. The flat 6 in gt2rs has it, turbo s has it, 720s has it, 488 has it, amg gtr has it. I am happy to bet $100 on it if you want.
Aside from that above, another reason why I feel confident that it is turbo is because the sheer size of that car, potential weight of it, there is just no way chevy will get 0-60 time of 4 seconds or less with an N/A engine. They simply dont have 125 hp/liter porsche flat 4 laying around somewhere do they? The best they have is 95 hp/liter, about 35% less power than where they really need to be. Even ford’s FPC is right at 100 hp/liter.
As another poster said, they will have difficult time tracking this car. Turbo is a lot more work than supercharger when it comes to cooling.
Aside from that above, another reason why I feel confident that it is turbo is because the sheer size of that car, potential weight of it, there is just no way chevy will get 0-60 time of 4 seconds or less with an N/A engine. They simply dont have 125 hp/liter porsche flat 4 laying around somewhere do they? The best they have is 95 hp/liter, about 35% less power than where they really need to be. Even ford’s FPC is right at 100 hp/liter.
As another poster said, they will have difficult time tracking this car. Turbo is a lot more work than supercharger when it comes to cooling.
#38
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#39
Whatever the engine is, it sounds like ****. GM is in for a big one when their entire waxer/lawn chair ownerbase who buys their cars for the big american v8 burble hears it when first reviews come out.
Last edited by UnhandledException; 10-19-2018 at 06:38 PM.
#40
Drifting
Thread Starter
There is a lot of wrong info here.
They run an E20 blend of race fuel. They do not even get close to 8k rpm. They are limited by the bop of a MAX rpm of 6800. They shift at about 6k rpm depending on if they need to stretch a gear for corners (but are still hard limited to the 6800). Even if they were not limited in max rpm by bop they would never be able to spin it that fast and make power with the tiny air restrictors they use (bop mandated 31.6mm for both of the restrictors). Corvette racing has never lost an engine due to failure in the whole C7 run. In the early races they had trouble with the DI fuel pump but no motor failures. Also they had a few dnf with overheating due to radiator leaks. Doug Fehan is the Program Manager, not race director. The first year of the C7 at Le Mans they took 2nd place, they did not loose a motor. My info is from living and breathing Corvette Racing, actually watching all the racing, and I have friends that are crew members for the #3 car.
They run an E20 blend of race fuel. They do not even get close to 8k rpm. They are limited by the bop of a MAX rpm of 6800. They shift at about 6k rpm depending on if they need to stretch a gear for corners (but are still hard limited to the 6800). Even if they were not limited in max rpm by bop they would never be able to spin it that fast and make power with the tiny air restrictors they use (bop mandated 31.6mm for both of the restrictors). Corvette racing has never lost an engine due to failure in the whole C7 run. In the early races they had trouble with the DI fuel pump but no motor failures. Also they had a few dnf with overheating due to radiator leaks. Doug Fehan is the Program Manager, not race director. The first year of the C7 at Le Mans they took 2nd place, they did not loose a motor. My info is from living and breathing Corvette Racing, actually watching all the racing, and I have friends that are crew members for the #3 car.
Last edited by Rinaldo Catria; 10-20-2018 at 10:16 AM.