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About Rim Diameter: why not 18’s?

Old 11-01-2018, 01:18 PM
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Rinaldo Catria
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Default About Rim Diameter: why not 18’s?

If GTLM cars cars shod 18’s and copious amounts of 18 track tires are available new and used, why doesnt the Corvette (and other track focused cars) come with them. (Comments from track rats especially appreciated)..
Old 11-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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Because the corvette isn't a track focused car.


GM has to ensure that the mass market and target demographic (older people who barely know how to drive) will still buy the car.


Last edited by lobsterroboto; 11-01-2018 at 01:22 PM.
Old 11-01-2018, 01:31 PM
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Rinaldo Catria
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Originally Posted by lobsterroboto
Because the corvette isn't a track focused car.


GM has to ensure that the mass market and target demographic (older people who barely know how to drive) will still buy the car.
ok.. lets limit the question to the Z06/07 or ZR1. Or Porsche GT3 (which has 20’s )..
Old 11-01-2018, 01:46 PM
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More than likely the demographic that doesn't like the 4x4 look and wants to plus size the wheels to make the car look like what they think a race car is supposed to look like, although you don't see many looking like that on the track. It would really help to reduce tire costs if they chose sizes that were more common with other high performance cars and in diameters used by track cars. I used to own a 1986 C4 that came with 255/50/16 tires. The Camaro's of those years came with 245/50/16 tires. Guess which ones are readily available from numerous name brand tire manufacturers now and which ones aren't.

Bill
Old 11-01-2018, 04:22 PM
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Bling! Plain and simple. There is no advantage to larger diameter heavier wheels with more limited tire selection other than aesthetic appeal. It looks cooler and more like the renderings. People like it. I don't mind it for the street. You just bend/break wheels easier.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:39 PM
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My least favorite word. "Stance"
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lobsterroboto
Because the corvette isn't a track focused car.


GM has to ensure that the mass market and target demographic (older people who barely know how to drive) will still buy the car.
Here we go again with the sweeping generalization "identity" crap. The so-called experts with opinions who can't make a point without attacking a particular group; especially among a group of professed fellow enthusiats. I would love to see some maket research that supports this position since it is well established that those older people who barely know how to drive are actually safer and better drivers than those who would be characterized as young or younger drivers. Hence, less violations, accidents and lower insurance rates for older drivers as a demographic.
Old 11-01-2018, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ROBWILKER
Here we go again with the sweeping generalization "identity" crap. The so-called experts with opinions who can't make a point without attacking a particular group; especially among a group of professed fellow enthusiats. I would love to see some maket research that supports this position since it is well established that those older people who barely know how to drive are actually safer and better drivers than those who would be characterized as young or younger drivers. Hence, less violations, accidents and lower insurance rates for older drivers as a demographic.

says the old guy.

We're talking about driving a car on the track. Old people who have been driving for centuries have zero ideal on how to drive a car at the limit on a track. They (and everyone else) who lack the experience do not in fact know how to drive.

The old guy with the car that spends more time at a cars and coffee isn't going to be trail braking around the starbucks parking lot.

Last edited by lobsterroboto; 11-01-2018 at 10:59 PM.
Old 11-01-2018, 11:19 PM
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Default Another Troll

Originally Posted by lobsterroboto
says the old guy.
Exactly. You don't realize 37 ain't exactly a springtime chicken do you? Here's an example of lobsterroboto's posting philosiphy and opinions regarding all Corvette owners. Just another antagonistic troll who knows everything (in his own mind). Never makes an actual contibution to a conversation. Just spews hate, criticism, no facts, for people he knows nothing about. Some of us have been driving our Corvettes longer than this person has existed. According to the lobsteroboto we forgot how to drive somewhere along the line according to experts like this. A serious case of class envy. Congrats on your recent accomplishment of being the newest member of the "ignore list."

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CF Senior Member





Member Since: Jun 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobydoobydoo
I can't believe you have a new member here that just bought his first Z , asks a simple question and for 3 pages he gets he's dragged over the coals. So much for the "brotherhood" of owning a Corvette.

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"TBF the worst part of having a corvette is being associated to the people that own corvettes."

Last edited by ROBWILKER; 11-01-2018 at 11:40 PM. Reason: sp.
Old 11-02-2018, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ROBWILKER
Exactly. You don't realize 37 ain't exactly a springtime chicken do you? Here's an example of lobsterroboto's posting philosiphy and opinions regarding all Corvette owners. Just another antagonistic troll who knows everything (in his own mind). Never makes an actual contibution to a conversation. Just spews hate, criticism, no facts, for people he knows nothing about. Some of us have been driving our Corvettes longer than this person has existed. According to the lobsteroboto we forgot how to drive somewhere along the line according to experts like this. A serious case of class envy. Congrats on your recent accomplishment of being the newest member of the "ignore list."

Example of a recent post by the lobsterrroboto:

CF Senior Member





Member Since: Jun 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobydoobydoo
I can't believe you have a new member here that just bought his first Z , asks a simple question and for 3 pages he gets he's dragged over the coals. So much for the "brotherhood" of owning a Corvette.

Reply by:
LOBSTERROBOTO
"TBF the worst part of having a corvette is being associated to the people that own corvettes."
oh noes I’m being ignored by a stereotype!!!! What am I to do lol
Old 11-02-2018, 06:07 AM
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Rinaldo Catria
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I see plenty of guys driving in the “Brian Redman” and other Vintage Series races at Road America who are around my age or older (and I’ve been collecting SS for a couple years now) who kick *** on hots shots young enough to be their children or even grand children. One in particular I’m thinking of regulary runs his Benetton F1 car there and hits 200mph up the front stretch and under 1:50 lap times on the 4 mile track. Virtually identical times to his son who has a pro ride in an IMSA prototype car. Be careful about generalizing about “old guys”.

Last edited by Rinaldo Catria; 11-02-2018 at 10:00 AM.
Old 11-02-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Rinaldo Catria
I see plenty of guys driving in the “Brian Redman” and other Vintage Series races at Road America who are around my age or older (and I’ve been collecting SS for a couple years now) who kick *** on hots shots young enough to be they’re children or even grand children. One in particular I’m thinking of regulary runs his Benetton F1 car there and hits 200mph up the front stretch and under 1:50 lap times on the 4 mile track. Virtually identical times to his son who has a pro ride in an IMSA prototype car. Be careful about generalizing about “old guys”.
Thanks. While it is generally true that the human body seems to be less effective as one ages, knowledge, experience, judgement and skill often compensate for physical deficiencies in older people. To be aware of this fact a person only has to check out the older competitors and winners in sanctioned racing. There is even a seventy-eight year old competing champion straight line racer kicking butt in his '59 Chevy in Wisconsin. If you ask, most of the younger upcoming racing competitors will tell you they learned from experienced older mechanics and drivers who developed racing without the benefit of modern technology. I readily admit being a so-called "old guy", if sixty-four is actually old, having been fortunate to keep the fire inside alive through two muscle/ performance sports car eras. Yes, one should be very careful, because if they are lucky, they too may live to be one of those "old guys." What then?
Old 11-02-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Rinaldo Catria
I see plenty of guys driving in the “Brian Redman” and other Vintage Series races at Road America who are around my age or older (and I’ve been collecting SS for a couple years now) who kick *** on hots shots young enough to be their children or even grand children. One in particular I’m thinking of regulary runs his Benetton F1 car there and hits 200mph up the front stretch and under 1:50 lap times on the 4 mile track. Virtually identical times to his son who has a pro ride in an IMSA prototype car. Be careful about generalizing about “old guys”.

There are tons of older excellent drivers. those guys... dun dun dunnnn wouldn't be the target demographic I referred to.

Corvettes as a whole are owned by older people with zero training and in many many cases no actual desire to take the car to the track. I mean all you have to do is look at this forum where there is an inordinate amount of threads about washing your car. really?

So if yall want to get butthurt because you think im talking about you or anyone else that's your prerogative.

So yah, I'm gonna troll the **** out the people that reinforce the stereotype. If you're not the stereotype then im not talking about you.
Old 11-02-2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lobsterroboto
So yah, I'm gonna troll the **** out the people that reinforce the stereotype.
Why?


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Old 11-02-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Rinaldo Catria
If GTLM cars cars shod 18’s and copious amounts of 18 track tires are available new and used, why doesnt the Corvette (and other track focused cars) come with them. (Comments from track rats especially appreciated)..
I'm one of those “old guys” that actually tracks (road course) his car. I tracked my 2017 Z06/07 regularly and I’ve tracked my 2019 ZR1 this past season. I’m not a pro driver... it’s strictly fun for me... I’m better than some and not as good as others.

My first comment to your question is: the Corvette is NOT “a track focused car” as you stated. It is (at best) a Track “CAPABLE” car. After my experience with the Z06/07 I would argue the car was NOT really very track capable due to the unresolved heat issues myself and others continually experienced. I think the the ZR1 is VERY TRACK CAPABLE... to me it is the car the Z06 should have been (and buyers expected)... but that’s another discussion.

Corvette is a mass appeal car... selling to a wide demographic and range of buyers... male, female, young, old, rich, poor. It sells in respectable numbers BUT the vast majority are not buying the car as a track car. The majority will never track their car. Only a small percentage of owners actually track their cars and bought the car with that purpose in mind. GM is not (and should not) build the car for such a small portion of the market... it make no economic sense. They have it right... most buyers want the bragging rights (marketing and tests that shows the car is fast and can perform up with higher priced exotics) but most have no intention or desire to actually do it themselves... skill level aside. GM gives buyers exactly this. That majority buyer doesn’t care about 18” high strength racing wheels or the various tire options those wheels make available... it’s a small market and not where most buyers are interested in.

I have often thought that GM could and should have offered a more realistic “track option” version of the car... a special order, specific track oriented version... roll cage, race seats, harness, 18” track wheels, stripped down interior finish, less weight. Having said that... I’m not actually sure I’d have bought it. I probably drive my ZR1 90% of the time on street and 10% on track. One of the things I appreciate is that it’s a pleasure to drive on street and losing the nice interior finish and comfy seats would detract from those street miles. Roll cage makes entry exit more difficult... less weight would mean less sound control and noisier road driving. Do I really want to do that... for minimal track improvements?

On the other side... if I want track tires I can buy good 18” track wheels from multiple sources... so I don’t need GM to offer me their pick... I can just buy what’s important to me, if I choose to do so.

I think so few buyers would actually buy a track optioned car that it’s simply not worth it to GM to even offer this.

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Old 11-02-2018, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Questar


I'm one of those “old guys” that actually tracks (road course) his car. I tracked my 2017 Z06/07 regularly and I’ve tracked my 2019 ZR1 this past season. I’m not a pro driver... it’s strictly fun for me... I’m better than some and not as good as others.

My first comment to your question is: the Corvette is NOT “a track focused car” as you stated. It is (at best) a Track “CAPABLE” car. After my experience with the Z06/07 I would argue the car was NOT really very track capable due to the unresolved heat issues myself and others continually experienced. I think the the ZR1 is VERY TRACK CAPABLE... to me it is the car the Z06 should have been (and buyers expected)... but that’s another discussion.

Corvette is a mass appeal car... selling to a wide demographic and range of buyers... male, female, young, old, rich, poor. It sells in respectable numbers BUT the vast majority are not buying the car as a track car. The majority will never track their car. Only a small percentage of owners actually track their cars and bought the car with that purpose in mind. GM is not (and should not) build the car for such a small portion of the market... it make no economic sense. They have it right... most buyers want the bragging rights (marketing and tests that shows the car is fast and can perform up with higher priced exotics) but most have no intention or desire to actually do it themselves... skill level aside. GM gives buyers exactly this. That majority buyer doesn’t care about 18” high strength racing wheels or the various tire options those wheels make available... it’s a small market and not where most buyers are interested in.

I have often thought that GM could and should have offered a more realistic “track option” version of the car... a special order, specific track oriented version... roll cage, race seats, harness, 18” track wheels, stripped down interior finish, less weight. Having said that... I’m not actually sure I’d have bought it. I probably drive my ZR1 90% of the time on street and 10% on track. One of the things I appreciate is that it’s a pleasure to drive on street and losing the nice interior finish and comfy seats would detract from those street miles. Roll cage makes entry exit more difficult... less weight would mean less sound control and noisier road driving. Do I really want to do that... for minimal track improvements?

On the other side... if I want track tires I can buy good 18” track wheels from multiple sources... so I don’t need GM to offer me their pick... I can just buy what’s important to me, if I choose to do so.

I think so few buyers would actually buy a track optioned car that it’s simply not worth it to GM to even offer this.


This is a great post. Pretty much where I was going just 1000% more eloquent.

For the record I'm as stated above not exactly a spring chicken myself. ;D

My car is a 100% track car without carpet, panels and a cage.
Old 11-03-2018, 07:11 PM
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:45 AM
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:31 AM
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It is for looks, I think the 19/20 looks awesome. Not so great for performance or durability. Pretty much that simple.

If you want a dedicated set for the track...you will get the widest 18's all around on Hoosiers.
Old 11-09-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Poor-sha
My least favorite word. "Stance"
Hey look, someone who "gets" it.

This has nothing to do with "bling" or "old guys" vs "young guys". It has to do with aero stance and angle of attack. Period. You'll note, of course, that they're using two different diameter tires. Why? To keep the front end a bit lower than the *** end for AoA. Yeah, it matters for down force and stability. Shrinking the tires down further would require a 17" front with an 18" rear. And that would then require a smaller caliper and rotor up front.

Or they could do a 19 rear and 18 front; but the cost of the 18" wheels that barely (and I do mean barely) clear the calipers up front will be immense. And the risk of caliper and rotor damage with the 18" front wheel also shoots way up. Get a little tire snot on the inside of an 18" wheel and you can kiss the pretty caliper's color good bye. It'll be scraped right off in one, long scratch.

You can also play games with the rear's OD by putting tires on that have a massive sidewall in comparison to the front's teeny sidewall, thereby allowing for the same diameter wheel all around. But think bending your wheels is bad now? Wait till you see what happens with the fronts after that change!

Last edited by jvp; 11-09-2018 at 03:40 PM.

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