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:-) from Nurburing times focused discussion to corvettes purported quality...(wrong thread?)
BTW I lost count of the number of low materials, technology and quality costs corvettes DS has picked up while awaiting the GT3RS..
By all means correct me if I am wrong DS; Chevrolet obviously loves you, but isn't it about 2 years that you are waiting to pick up the GT3RS?
;-)
Cheers
Not sure on the losing count comment... sort of like your 'weight difference' comments which I never followed...as you believed the ZR1 and the GT3/RS would be within 200lbs... we now have multiple mags weighing the same cars... and showing the ZR1 is 300+ lbs over the GT2RS (which weighs a 100lbs more than the GT3RS), same mags... same cars.
As for my RS... I received my 2018 GT3 in November of 2017, and received confirmation of my GT3RS in May of 2018, with a lock date of 10/23 and a build date of 11/09. The car will get stateside probably early January. Not sure where your 2 years comment comes from. Here's a pic of my GT3 & GT4 that I just early traded this past week, now that we're getting closer to a build date on the '19 RS... and a pic of the Z06 convertible I picked up to enjoy in the interim. Typically waiting 8 months for a new ordered GT car is actually pretty quick. People are still receiving new '18 GT3's...
18 GT3, 16 GT4, ST3 C4 RaceCar 16 Z06 Convertible
Originally Posted by johnglenntwo
He is at least consistent. His cars have a factory nannie MOD!
I love that you believe this... At the end of the day, I turn all nannies off when I get in the car... while I may not be able to turn off the 'electronic diff' (which my 6spd car didn't have) or the 'RWS'... I do turn off stability control and traction control... to whatever extent it 'actually allows to be disabled' is to be debated. I can tell you 'on the race track'... when I have either of those features on, you can 'feel' the car cut power to correct.. when they are 'off' the car will let you drift/spin/ do as you like.
Originally Posted by NORTY
The car clearly offers the performance of a 250k car. If the car was 250k, it would be a lot more exclusive than it is now. Limiting production to just 1,000 units per year would drive up it's value too. Think of what FORD is doing marketing wise with their GT.
The only downside to buying the $100k+ Corvette is unloading it in 5 years for half what you paid. That's a big depreciation hit.
Buying the $250K Ford nets you a profit of a hundred grand or better.
So, in the end, one helps you lose your ***, while the other one helps your retirement...
I think we're saying the same thing... with the exception... (and maybe to your point) the quality can't be there in a mass produced car. It was only when washing the Z06 that I was disappointed in the rear 'pieces'... but again... for $70 or $80K I get it. And it's why I choose to not buy corvette's new (usually) because they take such a big hit once they drive off the lot. Limited quantity would help this for sure... but when the C7 is a re-worked C6 which was a re-worked C5... what benefit does the General have in making them low production?
I'm hoping with all the development and engineering time spent on the C8, we get that world class Corvette, that deserves a $100K+.
LOL you’ve missed my point entirely. I could care less who sets the record as long as the cars competing are compared fairly. Having showroom stock cars on the same list as a third party modified car is not fair in my opinion. There should be two separate classes, lists, and records for “street legal” and “factory stock”. As it stands these “classes” are combined, at least in the public eye.
Anyone that expects the ZR1 to beat a race car with no creature comforts and lexan windows is kidding themselves. I do expect them to compete however as long as the street legal race car (GT2RS) is in factory stock condition as it would be delivered to a customer. That would also exclude the unobtainable Cup 2 R tires as well. On normal Cup 2s the ZR1 will hang with the GT2RS on almost any track and that’s impressive.
I love that you believe this... At the end of the day, I turn all nannies off when I get in the car... while I may not be able to turn off the 'electronic diff' (which my 6spd car didn't have) or the 'RWS'... I do turn off stability control and traction control... to whatever extent it 'actually allows to be disabled' is to be debated. I can tell you 'on the race track'... when I have either of those features on, you can 'feel' the car cut power to correct.. when they are 'off' the car will let you drift/spin/ do as you like.
Best Regards,
Dave
The Porsche GT3 manual spec writing does seem to have been a work in progress. I recall it reading similarly to that of the 911S, but, it is broken down more with respect to the PDK Ring model presently.
The always on aspect of the manual has a low traction necessary component.
We have seen the GT3 allow you to fail, so yes right! (Cup R's for all of them!!!)
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 11-04-2018 at 08:27 AM.
Not sure on the losing count comment... sort of like your 'weight difference' comments which I never followed...as you believed the ZR1 and the GT3/RS would be within 200lbs... we now have multiple mags weighing the same cars... and showing the ZR1 is 300+ lbs over the GT2RS (which weighs a 100lbs more than the GT3RS), same mags... same cars.
As for my RS... I received my 2018 GT3 in November of 2017, and received confirmation of my GT3RS in May of 2018, with a lock date of 10/23 and a build date of 11/09. The car will get stateside probably early January. Not sure where your 2 years comment comes from. Here's a pic of my GT3 & GT4 that I just early traded this past week, now that we're getting closer to a build date on the '19 RS... and a pic of the Z06 convertible I picked up to enjoy in the interim. Typically waiting 8 months for a new ordered GT car is actually pretty quick. People are still receiving new '18 GT3's...
18 GT3, 16 GT4, ST3 C4 RaceCar 16 Z06 Convertible
I love that you believe this... At the end of the day, I turn all nannies off when I get in the car... while I may not be able to turn off the 'electronic diff' (which my 6spd car didn't have) or the 'RWS'... I do turn off stability control and traction control... to whatever extent it 'actually allows to be disabled' is to be debated. I can tell you 'on the race track'... when I have either of those features on, you can 'feel' the car cut power to correct.. when they are 'off' the car will let you drift/spin/ do as you like.
I think we're saying the same thing... with the exception... (and maybe to your point) the quality can't be there in a mass produced car. It was only when washing the Z06 that I was disappointed in the rear 'pieces'... but again... for $70 or $80K I get it. And it's why I choose to not buy corvette's new (usually) because they take such a big hit once they drive off the lot. Limited quantity would help this for sure... but when the C7 is a re-worked C6 which was a re-worked C5... what benefit does the General have in making them low production?
I'm hoping with all the development and engineering time spent on the C8, we get that world class Corvette, that deserves a $100K+.
Best Regards,
Dave
Sort of like the 911 since the 1964 introduction (same basic architecture)? Of course, the big chassis leap of the corvette was hydroforming with the introduction of the C5 in 1997. And, as we all know, most everyone else in the automotive industry has followed suit.
The Porsche GT3 manual spec writing does seem to have been a work in progress. I recall it reading similarly to that of the 911S, but, it is broken down more with respect to the PDK Ring model presently.
The always on aspect of the manual has a low traction necessary component.
We have seen the GT3 allow you to fail, so yes right! (Cup R's for all of them!!!)
So you are capable of real English. All of your other posts are just a ruse then? You are some kind of mega troll intentionally trying to annoy people by talking in fragments?
I do find it funny (sorry) but to see LG, post about 15 pages of how he was going to over to the Ring in a 'lightly modified' Z06, and Shock the world... and is completely modified car (which was the farthest thing from a street Z06) barely broke the 8 minute barrier! Slower than GM did with a 'Stock C6 ZR1' !? Just proving.. 'it ain't easy' to run fast laps at the ring.
Best Regards,
Dave
Did you read any of Lou's actual experience? The lack of a laptime had nothing to do with the speed of the car.
So you are capable of real English. All of your other posts are just a ruse then? You are some kind of mega troll intentionally trying to annoy people by talking in fragments?
And don't you dare respond to me in gibberish.
Yes, I recall Dave writing how magazines and car manufacturers can write wrong information.
Now mind you I first looked into this based on GT3 owners on rennlist who had concerns with respect to their rear brake pad track wear, but, clearly the Porsche writings for the GT3 manual actually now are as Dave had said with this. Did he contact them, seems different!? (not my original scope)
Anyway, it doesn't really matter since the PDK working as I said with the Cup 2R's are the stars at The Ring, and at our tracks.
Furthermore, a VID I saw had the driver having to wait for mid corner to kick the tail out.
I always attempt to get my facts right!
And, was it pretentious to say a graph showing approximately a 300 lb MAX DF at 80 MPH interpreted as a 50% less significant couple hundred with respect to the ACR and its lower speed handling? Let see a C7 ZO6 ZO7 DF at 150 MPH is what!? Big guy.
P.S. The good part about trying and hopefully getting information correct eliminates the need for further investigations. IE My digging up the ACR Engineer MPG losses towing the ACR. ETC Gibberish is easy!
Coming back with 'Just the Facts Man!?'
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 11-04-2018 at 11:11 PM.
Did not watch the video but for a 358K car + 107k Manthey worth of mods it must be a nice video for sure. What is that....465K? Does Porsche charges me if I click on the video?
Did not watch the video but for a 358K car + 107k Manthey worth of mods it must be a nice video for sure. What is that....465K? Does Porsche charges me if I click on the video?
Don’t worry you need an allocation to be able to see the video and they are impossible to get
Traind, I did read it, and watched his lap. I think he drove extremely well.
Best Regards,
Dave
Where is this lap posted?
NM I found it. You could tell based on his throttle feathering he wasn't sure of what was coming or what to expect from each turn. There was very little time in full confidence and commitment. Typical for installation laps when learning a track. He also lost several seconds lifting for traffic. Also, I don't know how you fully commit there without a clear track or at least spotters. A broken down car, like he passed towards the end is a sure crash at full bore, even some of the cars he passed would not have been avoidable if he caught them at the wrong spot. That car has a ton of time in it once he learns the track and has a clean lap.
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-05-2018 at 02:31 PM.
Did not watch the video but for a 358K car + 107k Manthey worth of mods it must be a nice video for sure. What is that....465K? Does Porsche charges me if I click on the video?
make sure to take sips of water during the vid to get the full effect....
Regarding GT2RS, here are some objective turn offs:
- Sounds absolutely atrocious compared to N/A Porsche GT cars or ZR1 or any N/A track car we have in production car today.
- The water spray makes a huge impact on car’s performance. Apparently the tank needs to be filled once every 1 nurburgring lap. Thats around 4-5 laps of anything here. And probably once every couple of weeks of weekend driving. Its something that will not be very durable either, BMW GTS owners already complain lots of failures.
- GT2RS is extremely uncomfortable to drive anywhere but track. The wheels each cost $8,000 to replace. It is simply not practical to even take your significant other out for dinner.
Car is useless to 98% of average sports car enthusiast.
Regarding GT2RS, here are some objective turn offs:
- Sounds absolutely atrocious compared to N/A Porsche GT cars or ZR1 or any N/A track car we have in production car today.
- The water spray makes a huge impact on car’s performance. Apparently the tank needs to be filled once every 1 nurburgring lap. Thats around 4-5 laps of anything here. And probably once every couple of weeks of weekend driving. Its something that will not be very durable either, BMW GTS owners already complain lots of failures.
- GT2RS is extremely uncomfortable to drive anywhere but track. The wheels each cost $8,000 to replace. It is simply not practical to even take your significant other out for dinner.
Car is useless to 98% of average sports car enthusiast.
Regarding GT2RS, here are some objective turn offs:
- The water spray makes a huge impact on car’s performance. Apparently the tank needs to be filled once every 1 nurburgring lap. Thats around 4-5 laps of anything here. And probably once every couple of weeks of weekend driving. Its something that will not be very durable either, BMW GTS owners already complain lots of failures.
Ot ask any Oldsmobile Jetfire owners. It's why OIds stopped building turbo cars.
NM I found it. You could tell based on his throttle feathering he wasn't sure of what was coming or what to expect from each turn. There was very little time in full confidence and commitment. Typical for installation laps when learning a track. He also lost several seconds lifting for traffic. Also, I don't know how you fully commit there without a clear track or at least spotters. A broken down car, like he passed towards the end is a sure crash at full bore, even some of the cars he passed would not have been avoidable if he caught them at the wrong spot. That car has a ton of time in it once he learns the track and has a clean lap.
I think this is a good perspective, of the different league the GT3RS is in vs. the ZR1 (or LG modified Z06). And We're not even comparing to a GT2RS...
Heavy, when you have a minute, Check these two links out, this has Kevin Estre, who ran the 6:56 in the GT3RS, doing 'parade laps' with traffic on the ring... and he's running the 'standard Cup 2' tires... you can see the full tread when they are switching tires at the end of the video.
With a passenger, and a fully equipped car, NAV, Radio, Talking to his rider, he wasn't able to run the entire course, so you have to Compare the LG video starting point from 2 seconds to the GT3RS w/Passenger Starting point of 1:49. And then you can run the video until the Red Audi Sport Bridge, and you'll see Lou's segment time from those two mile marks was 6:46... and Kevin's is a 6:31! This is with dozens of cars on track, a passenger and the full tread Cup 2's... not the Cup 2R's.
The GT cars are truly in another league at the Ring. Doesn't mean they will be around US' much shorter tracks,... but I think it also lends merit to not just the confidence and capability of the GT Cars, but the drivers Porsche has, clearly know that track incredibly well.
I think this is a good perspective, of the different league the GT3RS is in vs. the ZR1 (or LG modified Z06). And We're not even comparing to a GT2RS...
Heavy, when you have a minute, Check these two links out, this has Kevin Estre, who ran the 6:56 in the GT3RS, doing 'parade laps' with traffic on the ring... and he's running the 'standard Cup 2' tires... you can see the full tread when they are switching tires at the end of the video.
With a passenger, and a fully equipped car, NAV, Radio, Talking to his rider, he wasn't able to run the entire course, so you have to Compare the LG video starting point from 2 seconds to the GT3RS w/Passenger Starting point of 1:49. And then you can run the video until the Red Audi Sport Bridge, and you'll see Lou's segment time from those two mile marks was 6:46... and Kevin's is a 6:31! This is with dozens of cars on track, a passenger and the full tread Cup 2's... not the Cup 2R's.
The GT cars are truly in another league at the Ring. Doesn't mean they will be around US' much shorter tracks,... but I think it also lends merit to not just the confidence and capability of the GT Cars, but the drivers Porsche has, clearly know that track incredibly well.
Soooo, you want me to compare Lou's never been to ring before, race world challenge several yeas ago (not sure if raced professionally since) very first few laps at the LONGEST LAP IN THE WORLD to factory Porsche driver and ring expert Kevin Estre........
You can't even begin to make an argument that it's a car thing and not a driver familiarity wihh track/talent thing. Lou may have won some in World Challenge, but you can't with a straight face make an objective case that these cars were driven with equal talent and track knowledge.
I'm sure you will try anyways but you know I know better and I know you know better. Hard to take your opinion serious when it's so heavily biased so often. It's ok to have a reasonable opinion in spite of your preference.
11-04-2018, 01:45 AM
