Mikec7z

okay... so lets say you wanted to take a corvette zr1 to canada within 30 days of buying it and registering it in california or washington where you have properties, which are huge sales tax states. You just paid over 10 grand in tax and registration fees.

Meanwhile, my buddy can buy the car in 0% sales tax state, and sell it to you the same day, but sell it to you in canada, so now the car is registered in canada. Yes there is paperwork, but you just saved over 10 grand.

Do you understand yet, or are you still going to point out the obvious that paperwork is difficult?

want to know whats more difficult than paperwork? Paperwork + losing over 10 grand in a day.

make sense yet? Or is still a sham to you?

PS, no one is giving you the CA or WA sales tax back after you pay it. No one is giving you a refund.

But the most important point here is, most people in canada do NOT live in the USA, nor do they have a USA address, so you just insulted my buddies business plan as a poinless sham, when the reality is canadians CAN'T buy zr1 from usa, without a usa address.

Meanwhile, you have a usa address, and you have to pay over 10 grand more for a zr1 than my buddy, out the door total cash.

So... i guess the politest way I can put this is... what was your point again in your first post? This thread is for people who live in canada, want a zr1, and cant get one. You live in the usa. See the mismatch/conflict of interest?

and thanks for wasting hours of my life, trying to explain to you, what you probably understood all along im guessing.

Thanks a million.

herohaki

... what are you so butthurt about... no one forced you to do anything you chose, you chose to stay and talk on the forum, thank yourself for wasting your life, you don't need to explain to me nor did I really ask you to, I couldn't care less about what you do or what people do to get their cars, I tried to state where I'm coming from which you keep ignoring and saying not important, and keeps on rambling about what you offer, no one is against you here, I already said you're free to offer whatever service you want, it's not my business and I'm just not buying the convenience you offer since for the final and last time is not the hardest part of the procedure...

Also many states have sales tax exemptions and especially CA I know because I had someone claim it back from the department... I don't spend alot of time in WA can't say there... It just shows how unclear you are all this time. I tried to end the conversation earlier but you keep coming back trying to show what you can do. You can buy a car from US good for you, but what about the rest, the client has to take care of everything else and if he never done that before he's gonna waste alot more time on that and probably get confused on the way. You can resell it to the client in the same day sure, but you can't sell directly to Canada and now the car is registered in Canada... its not that simple you skipped basically all the hard stuff not just paperwork but also inspection and scheduling arrival at the border, etc... And you think you are saving tax by playing that trick? Many people tried... including those in Canada. You still have to pay tax in a private sale or if you don't the border collects tax both ways...

And no one insulted you're buddies business or whatever, you called it a sham yourself... I'm only doubting the necessity and convenience of the what the service actually provides, since asking questions, if you or your buddy consider that as an insult then you're gonna have a tough time in business. No business starts or continues without people having doubts and if you can't take something like some simple questions, then that's your problem not mine, plus I never even insulted in the first place...

All I'm saying there are ways for Canadians and other foreigners to get ZR1s if they really wanted and what you offered doesn't help the real difficult problem, not saying it doesn't work... just two simple points you keep denying... So please don't waste more of your time as no one is asking you to.

Mikec7z

because im trying to help people, and then you.... who dont even live in canada.. want to throw mud that my buddy getting them a car with zero usa sales tax....

is a bad deal... since they still have to fill out paperwork...

because you lack the iq to understand the other option is... paperwork PLUS LOSE 10 GRAND.

Which one is worse? Your plan or my buddy's plan?

you are the one who came in and said his plan was the inferior way of doing it, and you have NO PLAN that is superior, you just think you do because you dont know how it works.

Thus... you are what we call, "in the way". Make sense, or no?

Mikec7z

lets get something straight, he has exported over 500 cars out of the usa... if there is a more efficient way of doing it, it saves him that dollar amount x 500.

Im going to go out on a limb and say... for you to think you know more than him about it... is massive arrogance... wouldn't you agree?

So time to ask questions to learn instead of ask questions to argue and throw mud and insults that his way of doing it is inferior to your ways.

your ways are inferior and/or, not viable whatsoever in 2019. Understand?

herohaki

lol I live in Canada and keep all my cars there, I have places in CA and WA that I can go when I want to, before I don't and I still bought cars.

You're not making things better, "they still have to fill out paperwork" exactly which they do... I never said its a bad deal, I said it doesn't make sense or seem necessary, you are the one who keep coming up with stuff you made up and getting butthurt from it. I'm saying to Canadian buyers there are ways to get ZR1 or other rare cars, sure one way is you can find someone to buy it for you either using your buddy or a friend in the US, that doesn't solve the ultimate border problem which is true... While there are dealerships and companies that can take care of all this for you because that's what I use and what many people choose to do to save the trouble doing it themselves...

Also stop bringing up the 10 grand... you're not saving 10 grand no one is... really use common sense, if its that easy to avoid tax everybody's gonna do it, you're not the only one that knows the little tricks, and the government aren't dumb... And thanks for bringing up iq, you reminded me time to stop talking to someone that has no brain, you clearly lack the ability to understand what people are saying.

Funny the more butthurt and defensive you are, the more you are proving that you're offering something inferior so thanks for proving my point, a point which I never actually said until now, cuz you're clearly lacking confidence in what you do that you need to constantly jump out to say what a "good plan" you have by offering something non substantial. Lol just makes me laugh, you really using the unproven "10 grand" as your only benefit now, if nothing thanks for telling me a joke.

I don't need a plan cuz I've done it and know what to do... Also pleased to be in the way this time, had fun, by all means have your way now, hopefully never talk to you again.

herohaki

500 cars wow, impressive, so much compared to thousands of luxury dealerships doing countless number of deals and then tens of thousands collectors if not more that export and import cars out of country and buys straight from dealerships that sort everything out.

I never said or thought I know more, just typing out what we do, didn't say insults until you did, all of these are what you are making up yourself once more. Plus now you busted out numbers, now I actually do think I know more since I've been through many more deals and know many collectors, being one of them, we know how we get our cars. Now you opened up I can admit yes your way is one of the inferior ways to do this, you convinced me more of my own point, congrats.

I helped many clients already in 2019 getting their cars not just from US but some from Europe too. I also just got my Mclaren and shelby from US this year, so jokes on you being not viable in 2019. lol thanks again for making me laugh a second time, appreciate it.

Mikec7z

i hope you call a few chevy stores and a few ferrari and porsche stores today, and talk to them about buying their USA NEW car and shipping it to canada.

You still dont get it, everyone has to pay sales tax in the USA on every NEW USA car sold. THe rules changed in the last 5 years.

Once you understand all of that, then maybe youll appreciate he is saving people 10 grand.

As far as the paperwork goes, he can take care of that... but that is not the hard part... thats not the bragging point. thats a 500 to 1000 dollar swing if he does it or the person does it.

The bragging point is the lack of usa sales tax being paid... and once you go argue with dealerships and USA dmv's, instead of me...

then maybe you will appreciate what is being offered here, because as of right now, if you tried to export a zr1 to canada, you would pay over 10 grand more to make that process occur than my friend would.

Keep pretending otherwise. Go try your imaginary way where washington or California sales tax is NOT collected and KEPT.

cartester

I don't really want to get in the middle of this but I bought my ZR1 from MacMulkin in NH even though I live in CA. They sent me the signed MSO (I kept a scanned image of it) and temporary NH registration and shipped me the car.

Now they did have my verified US address, received funds from a CA bank, and had my stated intention to register and title the car in CA which I did but I suppose I could not have. That must have been sufficient. Is there more to it?

Mikec7z

they took a gamble.

had you then taken that MSO to canada boarder, and instantly exported the car there...

at minimum, you would have gotten a nasty phone call from the GM of that dealership.

But like you said, they did not see a risk, and they did not want to BOTHER with dealing with the state of california.

So, you may have just discovered a loophole. Perhaps they would make this same decision again.

I guess an appropriate thread should be created to find out which dealers do what they are not supposed to concerning MSO's

The long short of it... IF you had taken the car to canada or china or brazil, etc....

The dealer gets fined by GM and loses future zr1/z06 allocations and if the dealer is caught doing it again, GM can strip them of their franchise....

this is all in a dealers franchise agreements with the manufacturer/GM

Rest assured, if a person requests the MSO before they decide to do business with a dealer, i dont think any dealer in their right mind will then agree to give MSO... since they know the customer is requesting it (not a normal request unless a person intends to export)

herohaki

lol its you thats not getting it, now you're even messing up basic ideas. In the beginning I thought you actually understand something but now it seems like you completely can't understand what the basic law is and what other people are saying and is just self arrogant on thinking your way is the one and only best way. Did explain to you multiple times and you're just being ignorant, just do a google search, ask around and learn the basics before you come here and talk. Sigh... do whatever you want, none of my business and don't want to care anymore, while all other car collectors across the world and not just Canada we'll continue doing things the way its done, which seems like you'll never understand something so simple.

Mikec7z

i have 2 friends who own chevy stores, among many other brands... and non expoting and no mso given at time of sale is GM policy, as well as porsches, and many other brands. Even VW wont give mso.

Without MSO, you must have title. Its one or the other.

Otherwise you dont own the car.

So without mso, there is only title, and with title, there is no option to export, instead only register in that state and pay taxes and then export. You must pay sales tax upon receiving a title, otherwise its called jumping title, which is highly illegal.... so you cant go title to export without paying taxes.

....thus, exporters would prefer it would go from mso to export (no usa tax), instead of mso to title (usa tax).

In the past, you did mso to export (and you think that is still the way it works, when its not).

That is no longer an option that GM allows their dealers to perform. GM mandates dealers register and title vehicle in a selected usa state.

After you pay usa taxes, then you can export if you choose.

only 2 options. Mso to export.... or..... mso to title.

Since the dealers are supposed to file for title according to GM's rules, "mso to export" is no longer an option because the MSO is gone, it becomes the title.

Title to export is an option to you. And that means you already are obligated to pay state sales tax.

So keep throwing your empty insults. Im aware what usa law is. Im aware exporting is legal.

Im also aware what GM's laws are for their dealers... and that "mso to export" causes GM dealerships huge penalties on zr1, with the threat of "total loss of franchise" as one of the penalties.

I dont know how many more times i have to explain it... the only way your way works is if a dealer is dumb enough to give out the MSO when GM's rules say they can lose their franchise if they do.

Goodluck getting an MSO, the other guy says its possible at that dealer if you live in cali. so genuinely, good luck, maybe you will get lucky if you buy one from them. I would not ask for mso up front, i would wait till after you buy the car and call title lady directly... but now you are in vegas... because if she does not give you the mso... you have already bought the car and are obligated to pay 14 grand in tax if its cali. Have fun in vegas.

herohaki

no crap genius, great job switching concepts. You were talking about all the benefits of what you offer and that is customers who go through you save tax which is bs, now you're talking about process to export with either title or MCO and talking about having to pay tax, which is right and I never said against... Plus I never said MCO to export you were the first to bring it up when I questioned what you offer... not just GM, manufacturers have to obey the same general law, but the car market is much more flexible when its dealer to dealer and not dealer to manufacturer or dealer to individual... both the manufacturer and the dealer wants to make money, once everything is properly done locally, they don't care what the end consumer does to it. Btw a person or the final buyer doesn't have to own the title in the beginning before export there are companies and luxury dealerships who work together and stock their inventory with rare and limited cars internationally all the time, they'll take care all of this so the final buyer doesn't have to go through, a fact you kept denying. All the insults are brought to you by yourself, no one's here to insult you or target you from the beginning until you did. I never said whatever you offer doesn't work, it is certainly a way but not the easiest way, and as I said many times, people hold different opinions, if you think its the best by all means do it, keep dreaming about how the world actually works, but I know there are better ways than finding a person to buy a car for you and doing all the stuff yourself afterwards. You don't have to explain further as no one asked you to and clearly its not helping, not trying to convince you either but you also haven't said anything substantial, if you still can't get the hint, this conversation is over long time ago.

Mikec7z

so... assuming you understand you wont get mso (its called MSO btw),

assuming you wont get mso... and you will pay usa sales tax of 10 grand in WA and over 13 in cali.....

why are you confused what my friend offers to a canadian buyer who wants a zr1?

his state is zero percent, so instead of the buyer paying 10-13 grand more, if they use an address anywhere in the other 46-47 states...

they use him, he buys it, no tax, and then he sells it to canada.

10-13 grand is saved.

Plus he qualifies for usa vette loyalty, a canadian with a canadian registered vette does not... so there is another 3 grand.

how many times do i have to explain this? its a 13 -16+ grand difference.

What is so hard to comprehend?

You also accuse me of denying that companies give cars to people without title? I never said that... i said he would bring the car across the boarder to canada the first day he buys it, or if the person prefers, it can stay in america until title comes in the mail.

Please, dont put words in my mouth, its all written above.

Mikec7z

I finally figured out where you must be missing the boat... lol... pay attention, you are going to feel super intelligent with this next line...

If a dealership does not allow a car to be exported to canada, do you think the dealer is going to sell a car to a company that is KNOWN to export cars out of the usa... like... thats their job and the dealer can find their website just like the person in canada found them?

The answer is "no" my clever being.... the dealer will not sell such a company a car.

So when you keep saying "there's companies who do this for you"

yes, those companies OVER 5 YEARS AGO, WERE able to tell dealers what they were doing over 5+ years ago and they could still export... but then the dealers stopped selling to them 5 years ago, and have not sold to them since... GM's rules

Make sense, or did i lose you already?

So now... those companies that still exist... guess how they do it? They send in a person to buy the car, like my buddy, who lives in a no sales tax state.

He then resells to the company which has a dealers license and does not pay tax, and then they resell to the canadian. Its the only way its possible.

I guess i did not mention this to you earlier, GM does not allow dealers to register zr1 in companies that are tax exempt, because those companies are obvious vessels for "export"

GM mandates that zr1 are registered in the usa, to a tax paying company or tax paying human.

So the only way to buy a zr1 without paying over 10 grand in tax, is to have a human, who lives in a no tax state, go in and buy the car with a check from their personal account, not an export biz or person in canada's account. GM cant say no to that sale.

I'll pause so all of that can compute for a bit.






So, the companies who hire a guy like my friend who lives in a no sales tax state, they take a cut, and they pay him a cut. He is their employee/contractor

So the fees are going to be 3 grand for the service to the customer. 2 grand goes to the company, 1 grand goes to the guy who goes in and buys the car first.

meanwhile, instead of my buddy charging the 3 grand, he saves the canadian 3 grand with the vette loyalty... so its a 6 grand spread. If he charges 3 grand for his service, its still a 3 grand spread.

The amazing companies you keep pointing to and say that they do the same thing...

RIGHT!!! ... they do the same thing, and you end up paying MORE!

Did it all absorb this time?

if not, just re read, because im tired of typing you the same thing over and over.

Questar

Two points neither of you are mentioning, which are pretty important for any Canadian buying the car in the US...

First, currency exchange at the moment is @ 1.34 to 1.35 (actual cost to buy a US dollar with Canadian funds. What that means is: if you can buy the ZR1 at US MSRP then you’ll actually be paying @ $20,000 more than the Canadian MSRP... so you’ve paid a $20,000 premium just based on currency alone.

Second, with any GM car exported US to Canada or Canada to US by a third party (ie by anyone other than GM) there is a “catch” with getting warranty service... for the first 12 months warranty work is ONLY available in the country where originally sold. So... if you’re an American visiting Canada with your ZR1 and you have a problem, it’s okay to go to any GM dealer in the US or Canada and you’ll get warranty service no problem... same for a Canadian visiting the US with his Canadian licensed car. BUT... if your US ZR1 is exported to Canada and licensed in Canada, then GM will not pay for warranty at a Canadian dealer for the first 12 months (or “x” number of miles... I forget the exact number). To get warranty the car has to be driven or towed to a US dealer back in the States. This is how GM discourages the grey market in cross border vehicles.

Mikec7z

i agree with both of those points. Again, since the exchange rate went bonkers, GM has no incentive to ship the cars to canada, they make more money selling to people in the states. Only once usa citizens pass on open allocations, will GM consider building more for the canadian market.