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C7 ZR1 M7 or A8 for track?

 
Old 05-10-2019, 03:20 PM
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JanosNFS
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Default C7 ZR1 M7 or A8 for track?

Hi,

I own a 2019 Z06/Z07 M7 but am looking to upgrade to a ZR1/ZTK but there is only A8 available in our area at the moment an M7 will have to be ordered...

I love the M7 I have and am afraid that the A8 I won't be happy with. I take my car to the tracks for HPDE and road racing and was wondering the guys who track their cars have M7 or A8 and which is faster around the track?

Thanks for all the help!
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JanosNFS View Post
Hi,

I own a 2019 Z06/Z07 M7 but am looking to upgrade to a ZR1/ZTK but there is only A8 available in our area at the moment an M7 will have to be ordered...

I love the M7 I have and am afraid that the A8 I won't be happy with. I take my car to the tracks for HPDE and road racing and was wondering the guys who track their cars have M7 or A8 and which is faster around the track?

Thanks for all the help!
Get the M7 if you're a good driver and want to track the car. Any fast driver will over heat the A8 on track.
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:53 PM
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Sounds like your a M7 fan. If you are concerned about being disappointed - get the M7.

I have not heard of any cooling issues with the ZR1.

D.
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:05 PM
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I have the A8. Jim Mero (corvette guru, engineer and test driver) says the algorithm of the A8 is pretty darn good in track mode and is probably faster on the track than the M7. However, if you want to use that advantage on the track you have to leave it in auto. If you hit the paddle shift you are then relegated to only paddle shifting and it becomes sloppy with lag time between shifts. Personally, I found the auto track mode to work very, very well at the track. BTW, I have a manual '96 and '03 Z06. I can heel toe with the best of them but I do like the A8 on track, too. In town it is nice to hit the downshift paddle coming to a stop to hear the nice little burble of the exhaust. After ten seconds or so it goes back into auto. I like it.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:16 PM
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Thomasmoto
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I've got a 16 Z06 and a 19 ZR1 both A8's. I don't think you will overheat the A8 ZR1. It has so much more cooling capacity than the Z06 it's on a whole other level. My first Z06 was a 2015 M7 and I disliked the trans so much I sold the car in 3 months and ordered the 2016 Z06 A8 that I still have today. It's twice the car the M7 was to me, but I'm also a drag racer. That's very important to me. I've been doing it over 40 years and the A8 has so much better gearing than the M7. JMHO
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:48 PM
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The A8 is faster, it just is. When I was as Spring Mountain, there was an editor for Road and Track in my class. He asked my time, I told him (it was faster than his) and he responded with “yeah, but you have the auto, that’s not fair.” I wanted to say “then why is everyone always making fun of the auto?”

The A8 has had a lot of torque converter problems and the defining feature of the C7 might end up being “last Corvette with a manual.” The 2014 and 2015 A8s overheat on track, but that problem was solved with a front cooler in 2016. If I had it to do over again, I would get the manual (for reliability), but the A8 remains the fastest way to get around the track and unbeatable at the drag strip.

Last edited by Luke42_02; 05-10-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Luke42_02 View Post
The A8 is faster, it just is. When I was as Spring Mountain, there was an editor for Road and Track in my class. He asked my time, I told him (it was faster than his) and he responded with “yeah, but you have the auto, that’s not fair.” I wanted to say “then why is everyone always making fun of the auto?”

The A8 has had a lot of torque converter problems and the defining feature of the C7 might end up being “last Corvette with a manual.” The 2014 and 2015 A8s overheat on track, but that problem was solved with a front cooler in 2016. If I had it to do over again, I would get the manual (for reliability), but the A8 remains the fastest way to get around the track and unbeatable at the drag strip.
The Z06 cooling problems were NEVER resolved so you do not know of which you speak.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:25 PM
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I would not even consider the automatic for track use. I used to heel and toe my '10 ZR1, the 2019 with rev-matching is so easy even a Hungarian could use it (my background)

You will regret it if you get the automatic, garantálom!

Last edited by range96; 05-10-2019 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by range96 View Post
I would not even consider the automatic for track use. I used to heel and toe my '10 ZR1, the 2019 with rev-matching is so easy even a Hungarian could use it (my background)

You will regret it if you get the automatic, garantálom!
I have been heel-toeing my C5Z for almost 15 years on the track. The rev matching to me would be an absolute joke. Seriously, it really sounds like a dumbed-down feature. But, that could be just me.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Thomasmoto View Post
I've got a 16 Z06 and a 19 ZR1 both A8's. I don't think you will overheat the A8 ZR1. It has so much more cooling capacity than the Z06 it's on a whole other level. My first Z06 was a 2015 M7 and I disliked the trans so much I sold the car in 3 months and ordered the 2016 Z06 A8 that I still have today. It's twice the car the M7 was to me, but I'm also a drag racer. That's very important to me. I've been doing it over 40 years and the A8 has so much better gearing than the M7. JMHO
So many carryover complaints from model years past keep being regurgitated. The current models work just fine. The A8 is lightning quick and learns quickly the shifting points of a particular track. The computer algorithms really are amazing.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:36 PM
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthernSon View Post
I have been heel-toeing my C5Z for almost 15 years on the track. The rev matching to me would be an absolute joke. Seriously, it really sounds like a dumbed-down feature. But, that could be just me.
You lost me on this one. Please elaborate on your perceived failure of rev-match. Have you had a M7 car? You praise the computerized shift points on the A8 and find fault with the computerized rev-match on the M7. It seems to me automatic cars are available for sale at several dealers. Manuals, not so much. My first Corvette was an automatic. I wished it was a manual, since then all my other Corvettes have been manuals. Yes, I'm biased.
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:26 PM
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I love the rev match with the C7. Heck, I can heel toe, but the rev match does a great job.

I like it,
D.
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:33 PM
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Thanks guys for all the input.

I went to test drive one this afternoon thinking if I like the A8 I will drive it home...

I couldn't tell how much quicker it was going to be than my M7 Z06 since it had 9 miles on it and the rev band was limited at 3500rpm.

The car's acceleration is very smooth in Auto mode but is a bit of a let down for me when you use the paddle shifters. It feels a bit sluggish for a fraction of a sec when it shifts... maybe it's just me...

I don't know how much faster an A8 can be compared to a M7 but on Willow Springs Big Track Randy Pobst ran a few tenths faster lap times in the M7 Z06 compared to the A8 Z06. Does anyone have a comparison lap time for the same track on the M7 vs A8 ZR1?

One thing I realized for sure that the M7 is soooo much more fun to drive. I enjoy driving my M7 Z06 more than the A8 ZR1. I didn't have the grin from ear to ear when I was driving it unlike with my M7 Z06 and this would get worse on the track where half of the fun is the shifting up and down.

Just on a funny note in Hungary, where I am from originally, and in Europe in general only handicap people used to drive automatic transmission

The dealer is looking for an M7 for me right now so fingers crossed .
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by range96 View Post
You lost me on this one. Please elaborate on your perceived failure of rev-match. Have you had a M7 car? You praise the computerized shift points on the A8 and find fault with the computerized rev-match on the M7. It seems to me automatic cars are available for sale at several dealers. Manuals, not so much. My first Corvette was an automatic. I wished it was a manual, since then all my other Corvettes have been manuals. Yes, I'm biased.
My '96 LT4 with the dual mass flywheel (heavy) has a much different synchronizing rhythm than my '03 Z06 with the quartermaster clutch but I enjoy a smooth, quick downshift in both on the track. With the ZR1, I find the auto algorithms work very quickly and allow me to maintain concentration on momentum for maximum speed very easily. I like it. "sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't" to paraphrase a commercial from long ago. The point of my post is simply don't expect one to rule over the other. It doesn't. When I go auto, I like it pure and to the point. When I go manual, I like it pure and to the point. I don't want any outside help with either. Auto all the way or manual without rev match. Rev match would simply suck for me.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:09 AM
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Aside from personal preferences, the manual 7-speed may prove to be more desirable over the A8, especially if the C8 will only offer the DCT.
As it was pointed out, manual transmissions are the norm in Europe, automatics in the US. People who learned to drive in Europe have a strong preference for a manual (including me).

My '95 ZR-1 also had the dual-mass flywheel, the clutch had a restrictor in the hydraulics to delay engagement. The clutch engagement was smooth as butter, I think the C5 was a step back. My '19 ZR1 is as good, if not better than the '95 was. My C6 ZR1 clutch system was junk, but that's another story.

To OP (Jancsi bácsi) good luck finding a manual, it seems most cars available for sale are automatic.
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Old 05-11-2019, 02:19 AM
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Randy Pobst rode with me and drove my M7 ZR1 at COTA a few months back. He mentioned he liked and was faster in the A8. I live in Houston and track regularly in Texas so heat is a concern for me. I went with the M7 obviously and could not be happier. If the A8 is a bit faster, so be it, I know I’m having more fun in my M7! YouTube link to the session with Randy below. You can hear his comments on the cool down lap towards the end.


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Old 05-11-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HTXSkydiver View Post
Randy Pobst rode with me and drove my M7 ZR1 at COTA a few months back. He mentioned he liked and was faster in the A8. I live in Houston and track regularly in Texas so heat is a concern for me. I went with the M7 obviously and could not be happier. If the A8 is a bit faster, so be it, I know I’m having more fun in my M7! YouTube link to the session with Randy below. You can hear his comments on the cool down lap towards the end.

https://youtu.be/fgpLMCNNR2g
That is the beauty of the different ZR1 offerings; different strokes (pun) for different folks. If you really want to have fun with the manual learn to shift smoothly and quickly while threshold braking (heel/toe without rev match) and hitting full throttle at the end of the shift while lining up the apex.
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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Can not go wrong with either. For me, I like the fastest way around the road course, oval, drag stip or street- That is the A8.

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Old 05-11-2019, 10:57 AM
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I had, and still have the opportunity to buy two different A8 ZR1's (one is 10K under sticker and the other 8K under) and chose to pass on both. I don't track my cars and just like to play a bit on early morning back roads etc. For me, it's the fun and pleasure of driving and I just don't get that from an automatic. I came close to buying one of the A8's but knew deep down it wouldn't work for me.
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