Fore58

What is the conclusion on this topic of there is one? Seems like an ongoing debate that a few of us don't understand.

Thomasmoto

so you may as well stop it before it starts= Amen to that. The rumor mill goes at light speed. I had 2 different people ask me at the last Street Car Takeover if I was the one who broke a bunch of records with my stock ZR1. I just laughed and said, no it wasn't me, but they didn't even believe me either. What more can you do?

JMB

I'll make it short and sweet, the debate here is whether the use of VP MS100 "Oxygenated" fuel contributed to the record 140 MPH pass by Farmer over and above the fact that this fuel contains 100 octane to prevent detonation. Mr. Abbott contends that the use of this fuel "only" prevents detonation and likely causes the computer LTFT's (long term fuel trims) to actually add more fuel due it it's lower stoich (13.82) vs that of pump gas (14.7) which would make the car run richer AND slower because the ZR1 is too rich as delivered from the Factory already.

My contention is that since now that we know for a fact that Farmer not only ran 100 octane fuel but a 100 octane fuel that is highly oxygenated compared to pump gas that two things happened on Famer's runs, one, the lower stoich of VP MS100 caused the computer to lean out the mixture to actually increase HP because it takes a while as Nic pointed out for the LTFT's to actually make a significant difference in WOT fueling and then number two and more importantly, highly oxygenated fuel will make a nice HP bump in power, ESPECIALLY on a forced induction motor like the ZR1. My contention then is that likely ~3MPH of the 140 MPH is due to the use of this "special" fuel.

Since we are at a "he said/she said" without facts and date on the run I will buy some of that same fuel and personally test it with no tuning changes in a vehicle on my chassis dyno and report the results back to the Corvette Community later this year and this will irrefutably settle this issue so for now, stay tuned lol!

Thomasmoto

I'm looking forward to your results.
Thanks for doing that.

Fore58

Now that makes sense. Someone has to follow suit in order to prove an accurate point. FARMERS set up even without dyno information should be in the 700 rwhp range . 50 rwhp without a tune is amazing.

Zip Corvettes

[QUOTEWhen somebody is trying to BS somebody who has actually done the testing and knows the results it's like blood in the water to a shark. The more they talk the more apparent it is that they've never even touched one of these cars or done the testing and they shouldn't be making those statements because it spreads false information. I really dislike false information because before you know it people start to parrot it like it's a fact so you may as well stop it before it starts.][/QUOTE]

Let's address these. First NicD, nobody is BS'ing anyone. I have not calibrated this car and I have not scanned this one car either during any of the runs like I said very early in the thread. My whole statement about the A/F was based on how the car functions from how JMB was referencing. I also noted that and where you were correct and I was not basing the logic of the 14.10 vs 14.68 on the C7. I was just showing where those calculations were flawed. For you to make is sound like we or I was lying is a total farse and that is the real BS. Like I said you or anyone else is more then welcome to come visit and hang at the track. Now as far as JMB testing, I look forward to it since I have not had the ZR1 on the dyno yet. We talked about a lot of things and there were a lot of accusations made so I welcome any and all testing. I looked up the oxygenated percentage of MS100 which is 3.61%, Now reading about local fuels, there is not much information on it, but I was able to find something on our summer fuel being 2.5-2.75% Not a big difference but a difference, so with the stoich stock of 14.11 and then the MS100 at 13.82, I am still saying that we are not running leaner but richer once the fuel trims are taken into account. So once we are back at the track I will start logging the car and see what the fuel trims are. I also plan on running the car on the dyno and see what happens after Carlisle this year or maybe a little later depending on how busy I am. What nobody seems to mention though is why any of this matters. This fuel was not used in the car on the stock and DR runs, it was used on the last run to see what it would do. So if you have a ZR1 then who cares, if you are the track and are going to be racing the car, but 100 octane in it, remove the seat and remove the spoiler and have fun. For the purposes of testing though, I am all for it.

Zip Corvettes

Have I learned what from a class. I have calibrated a ton of Corvettes, it is one of the things I do for a living. I have not done a new ZR1, NO not many people have because of the new PCM and because most people purchasing a 130K plus car are not ready to void the warranty on it. I have calibrated many C7's, yes probably one of the first on the first day that EFILive released the update on it. I have done, NA and supercharged but not turbos on a C7. So are we comparing who had done what now, because that sounds pretty childish. As far and speaking in general terms, I do not ever get very specific unless I have to, but if you like me to I can. I was general in explaining the A/F ratio as mentioned early so anyone reading would understand. However if we are really being specific that car doesn't even ready A/F ratio so I guess all of you are wrong.

Thomasmoto

I don't know how much this is worth for this subject, but my ZR1 on the dyno made 606hp on a 90 degree day with only 1 small fan in front of the car. I can't recall the torque right this minute, but will post it here when I find the printout. And this was on 93 pump gas from a local station.

I would think most all stock ZR1's in the same heat would be somewhere in that ball park. So what kind of power does it take to get that car to that speed and ET? I'm thinking the DA is the biggest reason and using as little gas as possible would be the others plus tires and track prep. My best 60' 1.60 to 1.75 and 1/8th mile ET's are 6.9 to 7.1 at 100 to 105 with 100 being see the most often. You guys are saying that these very fast runs are just accomplished with cold air and a little weight out of the car? My local track is 1/8th mile and I've been going there for 40years. For my ZR1 to run that it would need around a 200 shot of spray or some serious bolt on's. to get those times and speeds. I've driven both my 16 Z06 and my ZR1 in some pretty cold air. Yes, they feel very strong due to the temp, but I can't see it being worth 200 hp. I'm not calling anyone any names, I don't do that and I've seen some street cars being a little faster than others of the same model, mostly turbo Buicks back in the day, but this seems exceptional.
Congrats to those that have done it.
JMHO

BTW I plan on trying some 100 unleaded at my next trip to the track. I'll see what, if any, real changes that alone might make. Right now I have access to some Sunoco GT 100 unleaded.

Zip Corvettes

I think you will start seeing more and more getting close or beating those times that Farmer laid down. There just is not that many cars right now that are being run but as they start to trade hands I think you will see more. There is not HP difference between your LT5 and Farmer's but the weather has a lot to do with it, track prep, weight of the car and techniques. He could come really close to duplicated this or even possibly beat it in anyone else's ZR1 no doubt. I wish that I had some magic part or something that I could sell to make every ZR1 run this fast with anybody driving it, that would make me super happy because then I would have something to sell. We would love to have any of you out at Richmond, the more Corvettes the better.

PRE-Z06

Dynoing the car doesn’t show how much actual hp it was making on a particular day at the track as usually people post corrected numbers, but I would be curious how much the fuel makes a difference at the optimum engine temperature when it’s just poured in and then a pull is made. It does surprise me that as much as this car has been to the track that it’s never rolled across the scales, guess no one was curious like I am.

JMB

Not entirely true...in theory you could dyno on a mobile dyno at the track, the "uncorrected" power would be the actual power that you are making at that very moment given all weather conditions and altitude and if you rolled off this mobile dyno and made a pass it would be apples to apples! But the reality/practically of this? Slim and none but if you did happen to dyno on the same day that you went to the track your "uncorrected" number would be pretty darn close to what is happening at the track unless there is a very dramatic weather change.

PRE-Z06

Correct, but have you ever seen a mobile dyno at the track and how many people dyno the same day they race? Regardless it still doesn’t take into account airflow at speed, not saying a stock car will have much of a ram air effect. Though I know my the kpa in the manifold of my NA C5 with vararam was higher in 4th gear rolling than on the dyno.

JMB

Agreed and you're also right about the ram air, can add significant power that can't be properly quantified on a chassis dyno!

JMB

Mr. J Abbott. if you're a chess player I call "check" and if your not then I'm calling checkmate lol Put your stock ZR1 on Steroids…VP MS100 vs pump gas: 50+ RWHP!!!

SpeedyVette

I
would not worry there is such a thing as happy tracks and timers

moon2605

I have a 2019 stock ZR1. Was at the Texas mile a few weeks ago . Best quarter was 132.3. Last Spring we ran 135.5 with a top speed of 190.5 with spoiler in place( low wing car) , same event. The event a few weeks ago best top speed was 189.4 with the spoiler removed. Conditions make a huge difference on these cars plus whether you get a tailwind, headwind, no wind , etc. It is never apples to apples unless running cars back to back. Several years back during a hurricane ( we were pretty far inland) we ran 175 in to the wind on Friday evening , Rained out Saturday, Ran 187.5 Sunday once the wind got behind us. Conditions can make you a hero or a zero. I do believe farmer has these cars figured out and just like the rest of us they post the "great" #s. Not the stinkers. You never brag about losing money at the casino. But you sure tell your buddies when you hit a big jackpot.

robz

And?