mityaz

Hey guys,

I am a relatively new member here, but have been learning a lot from this forum... Anyway, long story short, I got my ZR1 to about 1550mi or so as per GM's recommendation before tracking the car. I changed out the second fill of oil (this oil was put in at 500mi by the dealer). I used a PF64 filter (original part number) and Mobil 1 15w50 synthetic oil. I then proceeded to do a track day in Poconos. Everything went well. car ran great. Highest oil temp that i saw was 271*F (it was into the 90's in ambient temperature). Anyway, I then trailer the car home and as usual change the oil. Oil came out very clean and "looking almost new". I then proceed to open the oil filter with a "can-opener" tool. The tool is very neat and does not leave any shavings from the cutting itself. i then come to find a good amount of tiny flakes. Not just shimmer like you normally see inside of an oil filter, but actual tiny particles that i can distinguish with my eye. I will take some photos today but it looks EXACTLY like the video that i linked from youtube except that in my case it was a lot more of those shavings. But shavings themselves had the same characteristics - apparent yellow metal (bronze?).

I've been thru a fair share of engines in my other track cars and my idea of a ZR1 was that it would be a bullet proof track car out of the box. What do you make of these findings? Is this "normal"? BTW, the Oil filter that I removed at 1550mi had shimmer in it but no appreciable particulate (at least not to this extent).

hy_bmw_freak

i think its normal its if this that gets less next time.

23/C8Z

Filter puttin in work.. please report back at the next pm.

ZR-1DUDE

Send oil samples to Blackstone labs fro analysis.

Was the metal ferrous?

D.

mityaz

Yes, i was smart enough to capture a sample from the oil draining. This is before I saw the filter, so I will definitely send a sample. No, metal was not ferrous. It had the exact appearnce as the guy in the video - small yellow-ish particles.

SouthernSon

The dry sump system does require a much longer time for oil to come to temperature. I suppose you did give the oil plenty of time to warm up before going into T1. Spring Mountain lets their ZR1's idle first thing in the morning for several minutes to allow for it. I can imagine that many used ZR1's may suffer as a result of folks not adhering to this. I post this for benefit of those not so informed of it.

mityaz

yes, absolutely. I always warm it up to at least 140+*F on oil temp. Especially with w50 oil i want to make sure that it's liquid enough to flow well thru the engine. For example, once i unload it from the trailer i let it idle for a solid 7-10min first thing. Then each consecutive session requires less warming up as the oil doesn't quite get cold again between sessions.

SouthernSon

Hopefully others will to.

ZR-1DUDE

Does the redline on top of the tach not take that into account?

What parameters drive that warning above the tach?

Thanks,
D.

mityaz

that's a good point and i've thought about it. But that lowered redline is the same for 0w40 and 15w50 oil. I highly doubt that the engine has a viscosity meter (or maybe it deduces viscosity indirectly from pressure). And if you notice, the redline limiter goes to full at a very low oil temp (like 100F if i recall correctly)

ZR-1DUDE

I will pay closer to that. I just take it easy until the redline is gone. Maybe I need to wait a little longer.

D.

mityaz

So just spoke to the lead tech at my dealership. He says it's completely normal and that the filter is doing it's job. I will still send the oil for analysis and keep an eye on wear particles.

... I just don't wanna throw a rod going into the carousel from the back straight at Watkins Glen and hit the wall...

SouthernSon

Hopefully the surfaces are just getting friendly with each other and not having out! However, the comment "filter doing its job" is not a real confidence builder in and of itself. The engine could disassemble itself at redline destroyin every piece of metal inside the block and the filter would probably still "do its job". That little ditty is about as awe inspiring as shooters claiming a 4 MOA of accuracy is good enough for them because that is about as good as they can shoot anyway. If the shooter varies 4 moa and the firearm varies 4 moa you could end up with 8 moa! Sometimes these little oft repeated ditties are about as stupid as they get.

Dave02C5

Any info with the analysis?

mityaz

Well, the oil analysis at the time of shaving findings came back "normal". The shavings were too large (in my opinion) to cause much particulate showing up on the PPM level. I have since had 10+ track days, fresh 15w50 oil every time. After last track day i did oil analysis again. Again, oil came back flawless. No copper/tin wear whatsoever. And filters are coming out clean.

If it were the bearing wearing after the first track day the engine would have eaten itself alive at this point. I think maybe it may have been some "trash" at the assembly time that only was able to get flushed out under prolonged redline and 250+ F oil temp conditions. Wishful thinking?

SouthernSon

You are probably okay. Just monitor the gauges for a 'trend' in temps and pressure doing specific parameters. That is how the aviation community does it. One anecdotal incident in and of itself means little. But if a trend in a certain direction develops over hours of use it could be indicative of a problem developing. This, of course, does not mean a sudden catastrophic failure won't happen, even with a supposed good engine. This is a low percentage possibility, though.

BrunoTheMellow

Changing oil every track day? That's such a waste. Guys on here have done 10+ track days, sent oil to Blackstone and had it come back clean.

msdunkel

If you're driving it on the street between track events you're supposed to go back to the stock oil, which in turn would necessitate fresh 15-50 each track day.

Probably a dumb question, but could you store the track day 15-50 and save it in a container for the next one?

Bill Dearborn

There is no harm in leaving the M1 15W50 oil in the engine when driving on the street. Check the ask Tadge answer where he discussed why the M1 15W50 oil isn't recommended for street driving. Nothing to do with engine durability only catalytic converter emissions warranty claims and fuel mileage.

Ran my C7Z on 15W50 for three seasons. Changed from 5W30 in the spring and changed back to 5W30 in the late fall. Added 1 or 2 quarts of oil over a period of 7 months of street driving and 12 to 13 track days per year.

Bill

msdunkel

Thanks Bill, that could be a nice cost saving. A couple add on questions if you don't mind, 1st will my car fail an emissions test as a result of running 15-50? Also, if it's cold is 15-50 still the way to go for the track?
Mike