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You must be a joy to be around if that's how you react to anyone not in lockstep agreement with your opinions.
Hint: It's an anonymous internet chat forum. You know, where people post their opinions. Perhaps that's not the place for you.
1) You don't know me in real life. I AM the life of the party.
2) My complaint is about the idiots that came in here simply to complain about another C8 thread. Why take the time to read and reply to a thread you are already irritated about? They act like a bunch of Kia owners.
They've been predicting a mid-engine Vette for decades. They have a perfect record for being wrong.
There is much truth in what you say Kimosabe.
I remember when they urged buyers to go and buy a late, 1969 leftover Corvette to get the last of the front engine legends.
When there was a strike in 1969 GM could not manufacture any 69 Vettes for months. With the minor facelift to the 70 Vette, they had to use up the 69 fenders in stock so they ran the 69 model year into November 1969. Car & Driver took that to mean a huge change in the Vette after only two years of the C3 model run. We now know they didn't have a clue. They were not alone as several mags predicted a huge change to the Vette. They were only off by 14 years.
They've been predicting a mid-engine Vette for decades. They have a perfect record for being wrong.
gm filed bankruptcy in 2009. Lutz was there at the time and retired at the end of 2009, so he knew what was going on. what did he say about the Zora?
Lutz's quote from road and track:
I didn't want to move out of our price class, but Tadge explained that while the transmission would cost more, the list price would increase by no more than $5000. Imagine an American-built car with the proportions of a Lamborghini at that price point …that's pretty appealing.
We did two full-size mid-engine clay models around 2004—a Corvette and a Cadillac XLR replacement, each with entirely different bodies. We weren't sure whether they'd both use the small-block, or if the XLR would have a twin-turbo Northstar, but they were both gorgeous. We started working on it.
Around 2005, GM started having budget problems, so the mid-engine project got deferred; by 2007 or 2008, it was obvious that we were not going to have the money. A whole bunch of stuff got canceled. Impala was delayed. XLR was canceled. Camaro convertible was delayed. The CTS was delayed. For the C7, the Corvette team didn't get $900 million. Instead, it got the nominal sum of $250 million and "do the best you can." There's no way we were going to get a production-volume mid-engine car for $250 million.
and from an old article in corvette blooger:
General Motors announced last year that it will be ceasing production from its Australian brand Holden in 2017, which leaves the Continent without a proper muscle car from GM. Stefan Jacoby, head of General Motors’ international division, told Australian media in January that Holden will get a “halo model” after production of the V8 Commodore ends in 2017.
Chevrolet just launched its new sixth-generation 2016 Camaro and according to sources in the program, there are no plans to offer it as a Right Hand Drive model. That would be a requirement for a manufacturer to sell new automobiles in Australia. So that leaves Corvette as a possible choice for Holden. Except the current C7 Corvette is Left Hand Drive only as well and with no plans to reconfigure it for a Right Hand Drive Model, that could only mean a new Corvette will have to take its place.
According to the Wheels article, the Corvette would be offered for sale in Australia in 2018, which is also in the time-period that we would most likely see a new Corvette model. That date is significant in a number of ways, including the time frame for completion of the $400+ million construction project for Bowling Green Assembly’s expanded paint shop.
Chevrolet’s performance hero is due on sale here in 2018, rounding out a fleet of models set to replace the locally made HSV range once Australian manufacturing winds down in 2017.
(also, if they build a rhd model, they would have a lot bigger market for it in the UK, Japan, Australia and South Africa)
the plot thickens:
GENERAL MOTORS TO INVEST $439 MILLION IN BOWLING GREEN CORVETTE ASSEMBLY PLANT
GM to build a 450,000-square-foot paint operation
A major expansion is in the works at the Bowling Green Corvette Assembly Plant.
Lieutenant Governor Crit Luallen joined General Motors’ leaders and community officials to announce that GM will invest $439 million for facility upgrades, including a new paint shop. The 450,000-square-foot facility will be almost half the size of the company’s entire operation in Warren County.
current size, 1 million square feet
adding 450 k sq. ft. more, almost 50% increase for "facility upgrades, including a new paint shop", construction began in summer of 2015 to be completed by summer of 2017. So it appears that the "facility upgrades" are not just for the new paint shop.
if the handwriting on the wall were any clearer.....
1) You don't know me in real life. I AM the life of the party.
2) My complaint is about the idiots that came in here simply to complain about another C8 thread. Why take the time to read and reply to a thread you are already irritated about? They act like a bunch of Kia owners.
I couldn't agree more.
My complaint is about the people who come into a c8 thread and complain about the complainers that are complaining about another c8 thread.
Ah come on guys.... you know some people would complain about being hung with a new rope!
Me I am finding it amusing even reading the na-sayers posts! And jest like the houraw on the c7 ya never know what the bow tie elvis's will reveal next!
It's a 2019 at this point (was originally a 2017 but was delayed).
It will be very exotic from what I understand (458 Speciale is the target car, GM has one torn apart in Warren). The issue, and from what I understand the cause of the delay, is a lack of a powertrain.
GM originally was going to do a Twin Turbo V8 (RPO LT6) and while this engine might still be in development, it might only be for the Cadillac version of the car (which is an on/off again variant, my understanding is that currently it is on). The rumor now is (and I have this coming from multiple sources now) that GM is going to build a flat-plane crank V8. Since the 458 was the target car and Ford throwing down the gauntlet with the GT350R, the new LT7, as it will be called, flat plane crank V8 is for both the Corvette ZR1 and the "Hi-Po" Camaro.
Regardless of which of these engines makes it to production, the belief is that a custom engineered dual clutch box (made with help from Allison Transmission) will be the only option. No manual, and no traditional torque converter automatic.
The program exists, and people are working on it, its just the scope and feature set is in flux.
This car is NOT the C8, that is a different program entirely and at this point a 2021 car.
It's a 2019 at this point (was originally a 2017 but was delayed).
It will be very exotic from what I understand (458 Speciale is the target car, GM has one torn apart in Warren). The issue, and from what I understand the cause of the delay, is a lack of a powertrain.
GM originally was going to do a Twin Turbo V8 (RPO LT6) and while this engine might still be in development, it might only be for the Cadillac version of the car (which is an on/off again variant, my understanding is that currently it is on). The rumor now is (and I have this coming from multiple sources now) that GM is going to build a flat-plane crank V8. Since the 458 was the target car and Ford throwing down the gauntlet with the GT350R, the new LT7, as it will be called, flat plane crank V8 is for both the Corvette ZR1 and the "Hi-Po" Camaro.
Regardless of which of these engines makes it to production, the belief is that a custom engineered dual clutch box (made with help from Allison Transmission) will be the only option. No manual, and no traditional torque converter automatic.
The program exists, and people are working on it, its just the scope and feature set is in flux.
This car is NOT the C8, that is a different program entirely and at this point a 2021 car.
But with that said, i am kind of against having the base car be mid engine. I just think that would be kind of goofy to see a bunch of mid engine sports cars driving around town.
I definitely think the car is in motion. There has never been a better case for such a car to exist, the market is there. The new "target sector" is the up and coming 150-300 range (NSX, GTR, "Supra", Mclaren 570S, etc) where I think a Corvette platform could really disrupt with an affordable killer.
The NSX targeted the 458 also, and in their own way executed a "budget" supercar using a mixture of technologies, an aluminum frame, etc. So, I often look at that platform for comparison and could see how Corvette could execute this maneuver.
On the C6 to C7 frame, the differences are pretty apparent. The C7 is modular, in that it can vary its cast sections to change mounting configurations, then add on existing extrusion shapes (cut to different lengths) to complete the chassis. The upper "open air" structure is also something easily changed.
When you look at the Lambo approach, or any other monocoque car, it starts with the center capsule. Loads are transferred through the capsule and that capsules stiffness is critical to the performance. With the Corvette having a very strong center tunnel design, it may even be a possibility you see open air/closed top with that platform as well.
As seen below, here is the C6 frame design versus the new C7 "modular" design. (Disclaimer: JVP openly states I'm an inflammatory moron who pontificates and hates C7's, don't believe a word I say, he's far more an authority than I...I talk to entertain myself solely as an enthusiast)
I colored these two photos the same to point out the differences. Sorry if you're color blind...
The C6's frame ran front to rear entirely. All suspension was mounted to the frame, with extrusions at the ends.
The cast aluminum sections (seen above) can be reconfigured, as stated, keeping the core center as is. GM's (co-developed in house as an engineer told me) stir friction welding process allows these cast members to be attached to the aluminum frame, so changing them only involves casting new structures. We could see a bolt on (roof insert) frame like the C6Z had, or an entirely different top structure. The point to make here is, development cost of interior, seals, fitment stuff...it's very costly, so having that cost spread through the lineup really allows the costs to be reduced with a midengine variation. For this reason, using the C7's cockpit structure has cost benefits if it can be incorporated into another car.
Now look at Lamborghini, for example. They use a carbon tub, with attached front and rear structures. This is a traditional method for carbon monocoque construction, even former aluminum monocoques, which reinforce the tub at the mounting points.
Another cockpit cell
Now let's look at the NSX (below), which also has a modular look to it. Note the differences supporting the loads in the rear (in yellow), as they use members to transfer and reinforce the rear through the curved roof structure, etc. I colored everything like the C7 above to show how the similarity is definitely there, and we know the NSX is done and happening.
Added again for direct comparison
In the end, you have a cockpit cell with a large tunnel for torque tube, exhaust, etc. With the current Corvette, fuel tanks are behind the seats, but in front of the wheels. It may be possible to leave them there, or move the fuel cell into the tunnel (partially or entirely). Alternatively, you could see some battery pack go in there, or eliminate the tunnel and go fixed roof. GM has a patent on electrically driven and stimulated superchargers. We see a growing interest in hybrid technologies capturing energy and using it to stimulate a compressor. To me, the C7's real accomplishment, is the core...the frame/chassis.
For these reasons, I think the car is absolutely possible and happening (if budget allows and GM's health remains positive).
It's a 2019 at this point (was originally a 2017 but was delayed).
It will be very exotic from what I understand (458 Speciale is the target car, GM has one torn apart in Warren). The issue, and from what I understand the cause of the delay, is a lack of a powertrain.
GM originally was going to do a Twin Turbo V8 (RPO LT6) and while this engine might still be in development, it might only be for the Cadillac version of the car (which is an on/off again variant, my understanding is that currently it is on). The rumor now is (and I have this coming from multiple sources now) that GM is going to build a flat-plane crank V8. Since the 458 was the target car and Ford throwing down the gauntlet with the GT350R, the new LT7, as it will be called, flat plane crank V8 is for both the Corvette ZR1 and the "Hi-Po" Camaro.
Regardless of which of these engines makes it to production, the belief is that a custom engineered dual clutch box (made with help from Allison Transmission) will be the only option. No manual, and no traditional torque converter automatic.
The program exists, and people are working on it, its just the scope and feature set is in flux.
This car is NOT the C8, that is a different program entirely and at this point a 2021 car.
This is good stuff man...
Now dig and find out what that spy shot really captured. Is that just a chassis mule with a random drivetrain that would work stuffed in, or what was in there?
Now dig and find out what that spy shot really captured. Is that just a chassis mule with a random drivetrain that would work stuffed in, or what was in there?
From what I know it was to test out the suspension setup and weight distribution (so chassis). The thing could have had a prototype motor, but if it was going at any sort of speed then probably not.
The "Mule" C7's which had C6 bodies had LT1's in them and mostly they were "un-drivable" until they had some significant powertrain calibration updates.
Most early engine work is done exclusively on dynos.
My complaint is about the people who come into a c8 thread and complain about the complainers that are complaining about another c8 thread.
Bunch of Hyundai owners!
Jeez man, you sure complain a lot....
Jimmy
PS. I'm not sure why certain people get so pissed off about this subject. If indeed this is a forum for opinions (someone said that), then why not have "opinions" on the C8. And since there's no "C8" sub-forum (yet), these "opinions/pontifications" land here. Don't won't to read it, don't click on it. Seems simple to me. You guys act like you're paying for the band width. Or go start a "Beating a dead horse" thread so everyone can roll out their various picture versions of this time honored expression....that sure would be a thread I would enjoy.
01-18-2016, 04:41 PM
