Is GM capable of making a quality Mid Engine car?
#21
Melting Slicks
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I see no reason why they can't. (or at least as reliable as any other mid-engine produced today).
Based on the comments here, I'd have thought I was on the Mustang forums.
Most every high performance sports car produced have had issues as those models age. Porsche sits atop the heap as the "Drivers Car" to own, but when compared to others and if you read a Porsche buyers guide, you'd be surprised at the number of issues each generation has had, leaking oil, intermediate shaft bearings, water leaks, timing belts, etc.,. Many of the recommendations are to buy a high mileage specimen as the previous owner has likely had fixed the issues plaguing that particular model (as those fixes are expensive).
Actually the Corvette is a decent daily driver and one hell of a performance car value that can be maintained and fixed relatively cheaply compared to other cars in it's class. Not many Ferrari Daytonas used as daily drivers for reasons that go beyond just the price of admission to that party.
Based on the comments here, I'd have thought I was on the Mustang forums.
Most every high performance sports car produced have had issues as those models age. Porsche sits atop the heap as the "Drivers Car" to own, but when compared to others and if you read a Porsche buyers guide, you'd be surprised at the number of issues each generation has had, leaking oil, intermediate shaft bearings, water leaks, timing belts, etc.,. Many of the recommendations are to buy a high mileage specimen as the previous owner has likely had fixed the issues plaguing that particular model (as those fixes are expensive).
Actually the Corvette is a decent daily driver and one hell of a performance car value that can be maintained and fixed relatively cheaply compared to other cars in it's class. Not many Ferrari Daytonas used as daily drivers for reasons that go beyond just the price of admission to that party.
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Theo Harris (07-04-2016)
#22
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Surprised at the negativity in this thread. And you all have Corvettes.
A modern motor car is a very complex machine.
At least express a bit of encouragement and show some optimism that the engineers and designers will bust their asses to get it right - if the accountants ever approve the model in the first place.
A modern motor car is a very complex machine.
At least express a bit of encouragement and show some optimism that the engineers and designers will bust their asses to get it right - if the accountants ever approve the model in the first place.
But no way are they as bad as some make it out to be.
Maybe I'm bias because I've only owned GM vehicles and maybe it's all relative.
But IMO the C7 is pretty awesome
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Theo Harris (07-04-2016)
#23
Burning Brakes
"Everyone involved in bringing a product to market has to keep the price in line with it's intended function in the marketplace, not just the so-called "bean counter's". In all my years in manufacturing(engineering and management) I never saw an office door that was labeled "Bean Counter". Never saw a business card that was printed John, Doe, Executive Manager of Bean Counting. "
My dad worked for Chevy for 50 years...everyone in sales lamented the intrusion of the financial guys over the product guys... just saying it seems a little better these days.
My dad worked for Chevy for 50 years...everyone in sales lamented the intrusion of the financial guys over the product guys... just saying it seems a little better these days.
#24
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Whatever GM does, it really won't matter to me because I'm sure the price of a mid-engine Vette will be so far out of my budget that I'll have sticker shock.
I'm confident they could build the car, but question whether it will be reliable (especially at first) and whether a local mechanic will be able to repair it. Hope GM proves me wrong.
I'm confident they could build the car, but question whether it will be reliable (especially at first) and whether a local mechanic will be able to repair it. Hope GM proves me wrong.
#25
Team Owner
"Everyone involved in bringing a product to market has to keep the price in line with it's intended function in the marketplace, not just the so-called "bean counter's". In all my years in manufacturing(engineering and management) I never saw an office door that was labeled "Bean Counter". Never saw a business card that was printed John, Doe, Executive Manager of Bean Counting. "
My dad worked for Chevy for 50 years...everyone in sales lamented the intrusion of the financial guys over the product guys... just saying it seems a little better these days.
My dad worked for Chevy for 50 years...everyone in sales lamented the intrusion of the financial guys over the product guys... just saying it seems a little better these days.
When the 1968 Corvette was designed, the molded interior door panels were designed and the molds were purchased and engineering parts were run off and delivered to Duntov.
Duntov was a very small man and he felt the interior was to small. He wanted to redesign the molded door panels and then purchase new molds to increase the interior space. Upper management(who was trying to keep the development costs under control) said no. Duntov, the engineer, persisted and won, and $150,000 was spent on new molds to gain an additional 1/2" of interior room on each door panel.
#26
Burning Brakes
Right, that's why all the old shareholders were shafted, as well as taxpayers, to "re-organize", why saving a few pennies to send out faulty ignition switches was ok, why new tech is released before it is ready and owners are kept at arms length until hopefully the newly shortened powertrain warranty expires?
#28
Le Mans Master
#29
Team Owner
Apparently you don't know the difference between a Daytona Prototype mid engine race car(which you showed a photo of in your first post) that is not based on ANY production Corvette ever built, and a C7R which you now show a photo of. The point of your original post with the photo of the Daytona Prototype car was to "prove" that GM had experience designing and building mid engine production sport cars. GM didn't design nor did they build the Daytona Prototype car that you showed the photo of.
Entirely two different cars from your first post and this post. GM has absolutely no experience in designing and building high performance mid engine cars that are legal to drive on a public highway. I don't consider the Pontiac Fiero a legit mid engine high performance sports car. All they did was to take the front engine/transaxle/front suspension out of the 'X' platform FWD cars and stick it in the rear of the Fiero and then used the front suspension from the Chevette at the front.
Just a cobbled up parts bin mess of a car.
Entirely two different cars from your first post and this post. GM has absolutely no experience in designing and building high performance mid engine cars that are legal to drive on a public highway. I don't consider the Pontiac Fiero a legit mid engine high performance sports car. All they did was to take the front engine/transaxle/front suspension out of the 'X' platform FWD cars and stick it in the rear of the Fiero and then used the front suspension from the Chevette at the front.
Just a cobbled up parts bin mess of a car.
Last edited by JoesC5; 06-28-2016 at 12:21 PM.
#30
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I'm just finishing up "All Corvettes are Red" by James Schefter. It is an account of the nearly cancelled C5, which was introduced just after "The Troubles" at GM. It's amazing that the Corvette even survived that ever-changing bureaucracy. One point worth sharing is that the "bean counters" had a big part in saving the Corvette.
How? They charged invoices off to different accounts to hide the costs and keep under budget. At one point the budget for development was down to $12 million and they needed a test vehicle. So Chevrolet as an organization (as opposed to GM) gave $1 million to the Corvette team to build the car off campus and hide the cost. If they had done it outright GM would have cut the budget to $11 million. It took a couple of years before auditors sniffed out the ruse. They thought it was a case of embezzlement, so the head of Chevy fessed up and the auditors said "OK" and went home.
It's popular to criticize "bean counters," but the fact is, sometimes they can be your friend. Without bean counters the Corvette would now be a distant memory.
How? They charged invoices off to different accounts to hide the costs and keep under budget. At one point the budget for development was down to $12 million and they needed a test vehicle. So Chevrolet as an organization (as opposed to GM) gave $1 million to the Corvette team to build the car off campus and hide the cost. If they had done it outright GM would have cut the budget to $11 million. It took a couple of years before auditors sniffed out the ruse. They thought it was a case of embezzlement, so the head of Chevy fessed up and the auditors said "OK" and went home.
It's popular to criticize "bean counters," but the fact is, sometimes they can be your friend. Without bean counters the Corvette would now be a distant memory.
#31
Team Owner
I am confident GM can build it, sell it and it will be worldclass.
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marc4427 (07-29-2019)
#32
Race Director
#33
Team Owner
#34
Race Director
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timgman (06-30-2016)
#37
Race Director
#38
#39
Melting Slicks
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Mid-Engine Corvette?
GM has only been bringing out new car models for about 100 years, just give them a chance.
What can go wrong?
GM has only been bringing out new car models for about 100 years, just give them a chance.
What can go wrong?
Last edited by warren s; 06-28-2016 at 02:22 PM.
#40
Yes, GM can make a mid-engine car.
They just need to source their transmission from a company that can make a proper dual clutch transmission without any weak excuses.
If GM puts a torque converter transmission in a mid-engine Corvette, I will lose all the respect I have left for the company and product.
Last edited by 20171LE; 06-28-2016 at 02:43 PM.