C8 General Discussion The place to discuss the next generation of Corvette, be it mid-engine, Zora, or whatever form it may take.
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View Poll Results: would you perfer a mid eng or front eng corvette
keep front engine
46
24.60%
go to mid engine
37
19.79%
build both gives options to customers
87
46.52%
I don't care
17
9.09%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

Mid engine vs front engine

 
Old 09-14-2016, 11:53 AM
  #21  
PUGPROUD
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
The vast majority of Corvette owners are not capable of driving it to it's limits in it's present configuration, so what's to gain from the mid-engine layout? That same group pf people want a car that is comfortable driving on a trip with room for more than two toothbrushes.
While you are right its boys will be boys mentality that sells..."mine is faster than yours"...aka. "mine is bigger than yours."
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Old 09-14-2016, 12:57 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by gatti-man View Post
I don't know why they don't just go awd. The GTR is a pig and it really moves with awd. An awd c7z would be amazing.
AWD would require a different frame and body. Would it even be a Corvette at that point?

You can't just "go AWD." There are space and engineering requirements.
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Old 09-14-2016, 01:10 PM
  #23  
senah
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when Zora first started talking about a midengine corvette, the terms fmr and rmr had not yet been used. there were just front engine, midengine and rear engine cars. however, when mazda introduced the rx7, its engine was so far aft that they wanted to be able to call it a midengine, so they coined the designations front mid rear(fmr) and rear mid rear(rmr).

it seems that in order to avoid this constant discussion from now on, we'll have to use the more narrowly defined terms. the c2 to c7 are fmr cars and the new model is an rmr car.

nevertheless, the fmr c7 does not turn as readily, quickly and easily as the rmr zora spy photo version that we have seen photos of because it has about 270 pounds more weight on the front wheels than does the fmr c7s.
(assuming 3350 total weight for each, 50/50 weight distribution for the fmr c7 and 42/58 for the rmr zora)

every serious performance car manufacturer except mercedes, gm and jaguar have rmr versions available, and considering that fiat owns chrysler and ferrari, it is well represented in that department. mercedes plans this different approach non rmr awd hybrid
http://auto.ndtv.com/news/mercedes-a...r-2017-1454577

gm has the zora planned for introduction in 2019. that will leave just mercedes and jaguar without an rmr model. obviously, the handwriting is on the wall. most performance car manufacturers will build an rmr model because it is good for business and, all other factors being considered, has the edge in handling and performance on roads and race tracks that aren't short, straight and drag race only.

Last edited by senah; 09-14-2016 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 01:58 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by senah View Post
when Zora first started talking about a midengine corvette, the terms fmr and rmr had not yet been used. there were just front engine, midengine and rear engine cars. however, when mazda introduced the rx7, its engine was so far aft that they wanted to be able to call it a midengine, so they coined the designations front mid rear(fmr) and rear mid rear(rmr).

it seems that in order to avoid this constant discussion from now on, we'll have to use the more narrowly defined terms. the c2 to c7 are fmr cars and the new model is an rmr car.

nevertheless, the fmr c7 does not turn as readily, quickly and easily as the rmr zora spy photo version that we have seen photos of because it has about 270 pounds more weight on the front wheels than does the fmr c7s.
(assuming 3350 total weight for each, 50/50 weight distribution for the fmr c7 and 42/58 for the rmr zora)

every serious performance car manufacturer except mercedes, gm and jaguar have rmr versions available, and considering that fiat owns chrysler and ferrari, it is well represented in that department. mercedes plans this different approach non rmr awd hybrid
http://auto.ndtv.com/news/mercedes-a...r-2017-1454577

gm has the zora planned for introduction in 2019. that will leave just mercedes and jaguar without an rmr model. obviously, the handwriting is on the wall. most performance car manufacturers will build an rmr model because it is good for business and, all other factors being considered, has the edge in handling and performance on roads and race tracks that aren't short, straight and drag race only.
guess Pontiac had it right with the Fiero....is that the writing you mean?
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Old 09-14-2016, 03:26 PM
  #25  
JerryU
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Originally Posted by Rave View Post

As far as the mid-engine goes, I wonder about weight distribution issues. Seems GM prides itself on maintaining an approximate approximate 50/50 front/rear weight distribution with its modern designs. What happens to weight distribution when the front of the car is just an empty storage space?
My guess is they will aim for 45% front and 55% rear. With weight in the center and low polar moment of inertia (neither end acting like a pendulum, like my modified Corvair) that is a good ratio.

Suspect that light weight turbo V6 I bet they use to help their corporate mpg average will keep the overall weight low. While speculating on the engine, one reason for mid engine is the overhead cams it will no doubt have are too high an engine profile for the current Vette low hood!
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Old 09-14-2016, 03:37 PM
  #26  
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Since Tadge and Lutz are both on record stating going mid engine only adds $5k to the C6 Corvette, I have to shake my head at anyone voting for them retaining a Front Engine car, even as an option.

Polls like these are why I'm embarrassed to be a lifetime Corvette owner sometimes.
I wish the DMV required a IQ test to register a Corvette.

Last edited by 16sedanSS; 09-14-2016 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:26 PM
  #27  
senah
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
guess Pontiac had it right with the Fiero....is that the writing you mean?
try harder, you'll get it.

Originally Posted by JerryU View Post
My guess is they will aim for 45% front and 55% rear. With weight in the center and low polar moment of inertia (neither end acting like a pendulum, like my modified Corvair) that is a good ratio.

Suspect that light weight turbo V6 I bet they use to help their corporate mpg average will keep the overall weight low. While speculating on the engine, one reason for mid engine is the overhead cams it will no doubt have are too high an engine profile for the current Vette low hood!
there was a report on another thread of orders for about 400 lt5 type 32 valve dohc engines connected to the zora program, so doubt that a twin turbo v6 will be their only engine, but could be on a list of choices since it's already available in the cadillac lineup.

Last edited by senah; 09-14-2016 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:34 PM
  #28  
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I want them to move to mid-engine. GM is already offering amazing performance that competes with most exotics. Why not match them in the wild design category as well? The ME layout allows GM to start with fresh designs.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:36 PM
  #29  
senah
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Originally Posted by 16sedanSS View Post
Since Tadge and Lutz are both on record stating going mid engine only adds $5k to the C6 Corvette, I have to shake my head at anyone voting for them retaining a Front Engine car, even as an option.

Polls like these are why I'm embarrassed to be a lifetime Corvette owner sometimes.
I wish the DMV required a IQ test to register a Corvette.
i'm guessing gm won't abandon selling about 3k cars a month in the $50-80k performance sports car market sector.

the world economy is on very shaky grounds at the moment, so cheaper might very well be better should a serious downturn happen between now and 2019.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:44 PM
  #30  
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I would like to see (and own) a mid-engine design Corvette, but most likely the price will be close to $150K, so it may price a lot of Corvette owners out of the market.
Right now, I would be more likely to buy a mid-engine than a Z06, even at the higher cost.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:48 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Rave View Post
I read somewhere the C7 design will probably continue through 2021, and the C8 (probably mid-engine) will be introduced in 2018. If that's true both production lines will be running for 4 years. GM may do this to see where the sales numbers go on each design.

As far as the mid-engine goes, I wonder about weight distribution issues. Seems GM prides itself on maintaining an approximate approximate 50/50 front/rear weight distribution with its modern designs. What happens to weight distribution when the front of the car is just an empty storage space?
What I was told the car you see testing will be the special zora car. It will arrive in late 2018 as a 2019. The C8 "stingray" or "Manta Ray" will arrive in 2021 as a 2022 based off of a less expensive mid engine version of the Zora car with a V6 and with lesser specs with its own modified exclusive body work. The folks at Cadillac will also get a version of one or the other. Effectively the Corvette in its pure form will be dead after the 2021 model year. It will also be the last year of the Corvette convertible that hole will be filled by the next generation Camaro.

Last edited by UsaBest; 09-14-2016 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:56 PM
  #32  
16sedanSS
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Originally Posted by senah View Post
i'm guessing gm won't abandon selling about 3k cars a month in the $50-80k performance sports car market sector.

the world economy is on very shaky grounds at the moment, so cheaper might very well be better should a serious downturn happen between now and 2019.
All Corvettes should be mid-engine.
If so, the Economy of Scale will keep the prices in check.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:02 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by UsaBest View Post
What I wss told the car you see testing will be the special zora car. It will arrive in late 2018 as a 2019. The C8 "stingray" or "Manta Ray" will arrive in 2021 based off of a less expensive mid engine version of the Zora car with a V6 and with lesser specs with its own modified exclusive body work. The folks at Cadillac will also get a version of one or the other.
The above makes sense.
I was told over a year ago that all major improvements for Corvette (mid engine, DCT, AWD) would come from Cadillac.
So, what we are seeing is either a Cadillac, or a Corvette that shares Cadillac components.

The pushrod V8 engine with a stick is the only reason I buy GM.
I do not want, nor will I buy, a V6 Corvette.

If federal government regulation forces Corvette to go V6, it had better make ZO6 power in a mid engine layout with both DCT and AWD for me to consider it. If not, the 911 Turbo is the choice for a 6cylinder performance car.


Originally Posted by UsaBest View Post
Effectively the Corvette in its pure form will be dead after the 2021 model year.
Please explain your "pure form" comment as I bite my tongue.

Last edited by 16sedanSS; 09-14-2016 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:11 PM
  #34  
Higgs Boson
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Originally Posted by 16sedanSS View Post
The pushrod V8 engine is the only reason I buy GM.
I do not want, nor will I buy, a V6 Corvette.

If federal government regulation forces Corvette to go V6, it had better make ZO6 power in a mid engine layout with both DCT and AWD for me to consider it. If not, the 911 Turbo is the choice for a 6cylinder performance car.
I may not always agree with your posts, but when I do, it's about Corvette drivetrain layout.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:31 PM
  #35  
UsaBest
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Originally Posted by 16sedanSS View Post
The above makes sense.
I was told over a year ago that all major improvements for Corvette (mid engine, DCT, AWD) would come from Cadillac.
So, what we are seeing is either a Cadillac, or a Corvette that shares Cadillac components.

The pushrod V8 engine with a stick is the only reason I buy GM.
I do not want, nor will I buy, a V6 Corvette.

If federal government regulation forces Corvette to go V6, it had better make ZO6 power in a mid engine layout with both DCT and AWD for me to consider it. If not, the 911 Turbo is the choice for a 6cylinder performance car.



Please explain your "pure form" comment as I bite my tongue.
Front V8 push rod engine rear wheel drive. In simpler terms it will be a mid engined car that follows nothing of its seven generations before it. It will be called a Corvette in name only. The true Corvette will die in 2021.

Last edited by UsaBest; 09-14-2016 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:26 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Gary '09 C6 View Post
build both..ME should be "halo" model
must agree, the halo mobile would be out of my price range but I hate the idea of not being able to have another Corvette.
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:27 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
AWD would require a different frame and body. Would it even be a Corvette at that point?

You can't just "go AWD." There are space and engineering requirements.
Corvette gets a new frame every other generation. Are you trying to say a 911 TT is larger or higher than a z06? Somehow they do it just fine.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:23 PM
  #38  
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Bingo! You're right! And as far as a "mid-engined" Corvette make that too for the wealthy folks. As for me the 50-50 bias now is about as good as anyone can get on a front engine car. Why screw it up?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by gatti-man View Post
Corvette gets a new frame every other generation. Are you trying to say a 911 TT is larger or higher than a z06? Somehow they do it just fine.
yeah they hang the motor behind the rear bumper of a VW Beetle, that frees up a lot of space. The 911 is a rear engine car, not even a mid-rear engine. As a mid-front rear drive vehicle, the Corvette is not conducive to AWD. And quite frankly the spy shots of the mid-rear car look pretty terrible, hopefully it doesn't have anything close to the same shape. There are some beautiful cars out today and leave it to GM to late release something that looks like it was dreamed up in 1989.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:39 PM
  #40  
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What would I rather? I mean, mid engine is objectively better, all else being equal (this poll doesn't have other considerations)

GM isn't just abandoning it's mass produced 60k great performer market segment it basically outright owns. It's not just going to make all Corvettes $150k.

I'm guessing a lot of you aren't involved in running a business.

Last edited by village idiot; 09-14-2016 at 07:45 PM.
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