NytmereZ

Ford also used the mustang motor which saved them a ton of money.

CRABBYJ

I owned an '88 Fiero GT for 16 years and it was a really fun car to drive, even in the snow. It was, however, under powered with a 140hp FI V6. Kept it factory stock and won a number of Fiero Show trophies where even today there continues to be a dedicated following. Buick GN V6's and Cadillac NorthStar V8's have even been used to mod with little effort. Even a Corvette LT1!!!!!



This read is all you need to know, if interested, about Fiero rise and demise.

http://jalopnik.com/5501545/pontiac-...nitive-history

JerriVette

Upposedly carrying golf clubs is a big deal for corvette owners? I don't play but that might be a downside to a c8 mid engine corvette.

I'm hopeful we still get a targa roof standard...as that's more important to me than golf clubs...

I'd like a dct if possible too.

RussM05

In the final analysis, there will be very few parts shared between the front and mid-engine Corvette. None of the body, which means very few under it such as chassis, interior, and suspension. Maybe a few parts will be shared such as switches, *****, and other minor parts.

Then there is the engineering and tooling cost to be amortized over the total production units.

So the final MSRP will depend on the total projected units over the life of the production. The marketing plan will define that number which will be a guess at the end day.

I contacted my dealer and they said the price will be $150k to $200k which makes sense to me.

jimmyb

How does your dealer know that (the price range)?

I would offer that wherever they price it, maybe taking a page from Ford with the new GT and cap the production might be the way to go. I think that the C8 is going to be an evolution of the C7 and the mid-engine car will be the "halo". It's human nature to want what you can't have...look at the Ford GT. People are trampling each other to get on the list. Cap the ME Corvette at 500 units a year and it would be Katy bar the door. And the C8 continues the volume needed.

Mjolitor 68

The issue is this is a mid engine Corvette

Not a Fiero, Corvair etc.

I'm guessing Corvette is aiming the C8 at the new Ford GT.

THat will require a carbon monocoque to be in same league and THAT will be the priciest thing about the C8 I imagine.

Carbon tubs have come down a lot but still far north of aluminum monocoque

jimmyb

^^^^^^
The thought is that the mid-engine car is NOT the C8. The C8 will be an evolution of the C7 (front engine/rear drive). I hope that GM is NOT aiming the mid-engine car at the Ford GT, but aiming at the 488/Huracan/McLaren/R8.

RussM05

I only repeated what my dealer said. I would wager GM hasn't set the MSRP yet. Its at least a year before they need to do that.

Only 500 units? That's about 2 cars a day. At that rate, they would have to price it very high to recoup development, marketing, and tooling expense. The dealers wouldn't agree to that either...they need a lot more than that. Remember the 1998 Pace Car addition? That model started out with GM saying production would be only 1 car per dealer then ended up with 6000+ being produced.

I really doubt GM management would sign off on only 500 units a year. At a minimum, I would guess they would have to sell 1500 to 2000 cars a year just to break even.

Mjolitor 68

Makes no sense to me that Corvette would abandon 100,000+ buyers.

My guess is the keep a base model well under $100,000

And a pricey mid engine exotic simultaneously

It's been done before w Base C6 & C6 ZR1 in less radical way.

I think we'll get a peak March 9 @ the Auto Show in Switzerland.

tbrenny33

I doubt they show anything over there. I bet they wait for a show in the US. I agree, I think they'll sell the ME car simultaneously with a front engine car.

jimmyb

I'm talking about 2 separate cars. The mid-engine car (IMO) is NOT the C8. The C8 will be (again, IMO) an evolution of the C7, and will be a volume car. Comparing the mid-engine car to a paint and tape job (the 1998 pace car) makes no sense. If the mid-engine car is $150K, that will be the limiting factor right there. The last thing GM should want is for the halo car (the mid-engine) to be a sales flop (like the NSX has been so far). If you limit it (like Ford has done with the GT and the GT350R), then the line forms because people thrive on what they CAN'T have.

KnightDriveTV

A lot of folks in here think on a very narrow scale. Let's look at some conflicting statements to what happens in the real automotive market, as it exists

"Too many variations of the same car"...while Porsche has 21 different variations of the 911.

"The mid-engine will replace the front engine car"...that'd be like the Cayman replacing the 911. Or the 960 concept (which will happen) replacing the rear engine line.

Look more closely at multiple brands and what you will see is modularity. Modular frame designs, modular transmissions and modular engines.

"Can't put a mid-engine transaxle in trucks and passenger cars"...of course you can, you just can't use the entire thing. Keep in mind, the C5/C6 already uses a "transaxle" that is used in other platforms. Take it a step further, and use components that share, with different cases. You don't have to use the ENTIRE transmission, to spread that value across a lineup. Also keep in mind, you could bolt and LSx directly to the Corvette "transaxle" it just made the setup pretty long, though there are a few kit cars that use it as is. You can certainly compact that design further.

"Bandwidth"....that's what it's about. Tadge repeats it. You see Mustang, Porsche, Mclaren, Lexus...all doing the same recipe here. Create one platform that sells from 25k to 80k, then one that overlaps that sells from 55k to 155k, etc. The mid-engine car will supplement the front engine car and that's what will create a Corvette that can go from 55k to potentially 200k in C9, who knows.

Give it time.

Michael A

The price of the base Cayman is less than of the base Corvette, and the Cayman has much lower production volume. So apparently, a mid-engine sports car is not particularly expensive to build.

Michael

jimmyb

You never know...they intro'd the C7 GS in Geneva

Rkreigh

This is very true. But if we learn the lesson of the old C4 ZR-1 outsourcing steps in where GM doesn't have an in house solution

buy the tranny from audi and be done with it. sure it's expensive, but so is the R&D. Now that audi is doing a bit more volume, the exotic stuff is coming down.

shoot, repeat history and give a contract to ZF The old Pantera has the base technology, so does porshe.

I have no issues at all putting a good box in the car, it's what's been lacking for a while and "not invented here" isn't worth making it less of a car.

The new 8 spd and 10 spds are pretty strong, and making a transaxle that would handle the torq is not insurmountable, just expensive.

The car will quickly grow in cost, but keep some of the gizmos and boxes off the car and make it a bit smaller with solid engineering and the mid engine car will be lighter which is what the corvette really needs.

there are so many "no" reasons to not do the mid engine car if the price of the base car swells over 100k. You won't sell very many corvettes. I think you'll see a front engine base car and a mid engine exotic (at an exotic price tag) and chevy will gradually figure out how many of each to make.

I hope I can afford the mid engine car. It's the vette I've been waiting for, and I'm fine with 100k, not 150.

Tadge posed that the mid engine components won't make the car crazy expensive and 6k of additional cost was kicked around. While I don't buy that I wouldn't be surprised if the new car hits a 120k price pointg.

LIStingray

You do realize Porsche hasn't made a dime on the Boxter/Cayman in many years - 95% of its profit and 60% of its sales come from 2 models: Cayenne and Macan - their SUV's.

jimmyb

^^^^^
So we can have real numbers
Porsche 2016 U.S. Sales:
Cayenne/Macon: 34,705
911/Cayman/Boxster/Panamera: 19,564

No doubt the SUV's benefit from the economies of scale, sharing chassis with VW/Audi. But 95% of the company's profit? I'm gonna have to see proof of that, especially since the above shows that the SUV's aren't 60% of sales volume (I assume you meant units and not dollars). No doubt Porsche doesn't make 911 money on the 718 twins, but I'm sure they don't do it (offer those cars) to be nice. I was VERY surprised by the LACK of volume in the 718 twins. Together, they sold (in 2016) 6,280 cars verses 8,901 911's

A final point, using 2017 base prices on all vehicles (I know no one buys a stripped Porsche but it is an apples/apples comparison. I used BASE model MSRPs for the below numbers, no doubt the real dollars are MUCH higher but I have no way of knowing what the average 911 went out the door for, for example).
Gross SUV Sales dollars: $1,834,621,800
Gross Car Sales dollars: $1,513,025,400

torquetube

I too am skeptical. There's this story everyone tells that the Cayenne saved the company and pays for the 911. Except the timelines don't line up - Porsche sports car sales rebounded in the late '90s and the company was profitable for years before the Cayenne was introduced. No doubt Porsche makes a lot of money selling trucks now, but I seriously doubt the sports car division is a charity.

jimmyb

^^^^

Clearly the cars carry their weight.
Average price SUV: $52,863
Average Price Car: $77,337

So, I'll chalk this up to an urban myth as the numbers show the cars are clearly not "charity"!!!

LIStingray

You are correct, 60% was an underestimate; from your numbers the Cayenne/Macan are actually 65% of sales volume. In revenue they are probably less because 911 & Panamera have higher average transaction prices.