ZR1 and Mid Engine Testing Together - New Pics
02-13-2017, 06:36 PM
#221
The local dealer said I could come in tomorrow and put in a deposit for the ME so I'll be there tomorrow am. If it happens to be a caddy, no swet, I'll sure like to see someone else driving it.
02-13-2017, 06:59 PM
#222
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I still can't believe people would buy the car if it was a Corvette brand but not a Cadillac.
Both are GM cars and regardless the team working on the ME is the same team that works on the Corvette. In fact the only "good" cars at GM are made by the engineering teams under performance. Those cars are Corvette, Camaro, ATS, CTS, and CT6. The engineering teams are broken down into three groups: Corvette, Camaro, and Cadillac RWD.
Outside of that team I wouldn't touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole. This even before I went to work for Ford (but after I worked onsite with GM). After seeing how the company engineered products, I decided that the performance group was the only one who knew what was up.
Anyway, I got a little off topic there, but engineering wise it will be the same car regardless of the badge. Maybe you don't like A+S styling and that would be fine, but to hate the car because its a Cadillac is brand snobbery, and frankly dumb.
Both are GM cars and regardless the team working on the ME is the same team that works on the Corvette. In fact the only "good" cars at GM are made by the engineering teams under performance. Those cars are Corvette, Camaro, ATS, CTS, and CT6. The engineering teams are broken down into three groups: Corvette, Camaro, and Cadillac RWD.
Outside of that team I wouldn't touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole. This even before I went to work for Ford (but after I worked onsite with GM). After seeing how the company engineered products, I decided that the performance group was the only one who knew what was up.
Anyway, I got a little off topic there, but engineering wise it will be the same car regardless of the badge. Maybe you don't like A+S styling and that would be fine, but to hate the car because its a Cadillac is brand snobbery, and frankly dumb.
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02-13-2017, 07:06 PM
#223
Pro
Come on - time to get real everyone!
GM wants & is determined to have the best of both worlds - which is for the Corvette folks to stay happy buying & driving a RWD sportscar - Plus to be able to have a ME "Halo" car to sell at BIG $$ - to the Caddy worthy crowd.
We all know the increasingly high price of Corvettes is keeping the badge out of the hands of the young buyers - & the only way this can be corrected - is to stop new development in its tracks.
I mean - is there anyone out there who can truely say - they are not happy with the performance we have now???
GM wants & is determined to have the best of both worlds - which is for the Corvette folks to stay happy buying & driving a RWD sportscar - Plus to be able to have a ME "Halo" car to sell at BIG $$ - to the Caddy worthy crowd.
We all know the increasingly high price of Corvettes is keeping the badge out of the hands of the young buyers - & the only way this can be corrected - is to stop new development in its tracks.
I mean - is there anyone out there who can truely say - they are not happy with the performance we have now???
02-13-2017, 07:14 PM
#224
I still can't believe people would buy the car if it was a Corvette brand but not a Cadillac.
Both are GM cars and regardless the team working on the ME is the same team that works on the Corvette. In fact the only "good" cars at GM are made by the engineering teams under performance. Those cars are Corvette, Camaro, ATS, CTS, and CT6. The engineering teams are broken down into three groups: Corvette, Camaro, and Cadillac RWD.
Outside of that team I wouldn't touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole. This even before I went to work for Ford (but after I worked onsite with GM). After seeing how the company engineered products, I decided that the performance group was the only one who knew what was up.
Anyway, I got a little off topic there, but engineering wise it will be the same car regardless of the badge. Maybe you don't like A+S styling and that would be fine, but to hate the car because its a Cadillac is brand snobbery, and frankly dumb.
Both are GM cars and regardless the team working on the ME is the same team that works on the Corvette. In fact the only "good" cars at GM are made by the engineering teams under performance. Those cars are Corvette, Camaro, ATS, CTS, and CT6. The engineering teams are broken down into three groups: Corvette, Camaro, and Cadillac RWD.
Outside of that team I wouldn't touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole. This even before I went to work for Ford (but after I worked onsite with GM). After seeing how the company engineered products, I decided that the performance group was the only one who knew what was up.
Anyway, I got a little off topic there, but engineering wise it will be the same car regardless of the badge. Maybe you don't like A+S styling and that would be fine, but to hate the car because its a Cadillac is brand snobbery, and frankly dumb.
Plus Tadge and team will not be in charge of the car if it's not a Corvette. I do however prefer if they sell Corvette's in certain remodeled Cadillac dealers or have Corvette be its own division sold in Cadillac dealers.
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conceptmachine (02-13-2017)
02-13-2017, 07:16 PM
#225
I still can't believe people would buy the car if it was a Corvette brand but not a Cadillac.
Both are GM cars and regardless the team working on the ME is the same team that works on the Corvette. In fact the only "good" cars at GM are made by the engineering teams under performance. Those cars are Corvette, Camaro, ATS, CTS, and CT6. The engineering teams are broken down into three groups: Corvette, Camaro, and Cadillac RWD.
Outside of that team I wouldn't touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole. This even before I went to work for Ford (but after I worked onsite with GM). After seeing how the company engineered products, I decided that the performance group was the only one who knew what was up.
Anyway, I got a little off topic there, but engineering wise it will be the same car regardless of the badge. Maybe you don't like A+S styling and that is fine, but to hate the car because its a Cadillac is brand snobbery, and frankly dumb.
Both are GM cars and regardless the team working on the ME is the same team that works on the Corvette. In fact the only "good" cars at GM are made by the engineering teams under performance. Those cars are Corvette, Camaro, ATS, CTS, and CT6. The engineering teams are broken down into three groups: Corvette, Camaro, and Cadillac RWD.
Outside of that team I wouldn't touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole. This even before I went to work for Ford (but after I worked onsite with GM). After seeing how the company engineered products, I decided that the performance group was the only one who knew what was up.
Anyway, I got a little off topic there, but engineering wise it will be the same car regardless of the badge. Maybe you don't like A+S styling and that is fine, but to hate the car because its a Cadillac is brand snobbery, and frankly dumb.
Last edited by conceptmachine; 02-13-2017 at 07:20 PM.
02-13-2017, 07:39 PM
#226
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Sorry to ruffle feathers but it's just the way I feel. I'm just not a Cadillac buyer, never have and never will be. Sometimes things never change, and I don't intend to start buying a particular badge now at the ripe old age of 45. I don't HATE the car because its a caddy, it's just something I will not buy under that title. I'll be happy to see them on the road tho.
I will only buy and recommend cars based on merit (there are Fords I won't recommend and I work for them). Brand is irrelevant. This even though I grew up in Metro Detroit and pretty much have owned GM's all my life except when I worked at Chrysler supplier (to park close to the building as I was onsite at the Technical Center) and now when I've work Ford (because my paycheck comes from them).
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-13-2017 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Merged Posts-use the Muti Quote button (the middle icon) in the lower right hand corner of each post to make your replies look like this!
02-13-2017, 09:12 PM
#228
All I can say is today's Cadillac is NOT your grandparent's Cadillac.
Anyone who thinks so obviously hasn't driven a modern one.
I've had an Escalade, XLR, and CTS-V...loved 'em all.
I wouldn't give up the time I spent with them for anything.
FWIW, here is my prediction on the ME...
YEAR ONE: will be badged as a Caddy, with a small displacement turbo (possibly hybrid 1st or 2nd year) and all of the Cadillac luxury and high tech bits.
YEAR TWO: first badging of a Corvette, will be thought of as a base C8. Will be powered with an NA of about 500hp and, of course, will be without the luxury items in the Caddy.
YEAR THREE: step up to a mid-level small V8 turbo performer, perhaps badged as a Z06. Approx. 600hp.
YEAR FOUR: the Big Dog arrives (Zora?). 700hp with the same powerplant as above with possibly a hybrid thrown in.
Anyone who thinks so obviously hasn't driven a modern one.
I've had an Escalade, XLR, and CTS-V...loved 'em all.
I wouldn't give up the time I spent with them for anything.
Come on - time to get real everyone!
GM wants & is determined to have the best of both worlds - which is for the Corvette folks to stay happy buying & driving a RWD sportscar - Plus to be able to have a ME "Halo" car to sell at BIG $$ - to the Caddy worthy crowd.
GM wants & is determined to have the best of both worlds - which is for the Corvette folks to stay happy buying & driving a RWD sportscar - Plus to be able to have a ME "Halo" car to sell at BIG $$ - to the Caddy worthy crowd.
YEAR ONE: will be badged as a Caddy, with a small displacement turbo (possibly hybrid 1st or 2nd year) and all of the Cadillac luxury and high tech bits.
YEAR TWO: first badging of a Corvette, will be thought of as a base C8. Will be powered with an NA of about 500hp and, of course, will be without the luxury items in the Caddy.
YEAR THREE: step up to a mid-level small V8 turbo performer, perhaps badged as a Z06. Approx. 600hp.
YEAR FOUR: the Big Dog arrives (Zora?). 700hp with the same powerplant as above with possibly a hybrid thrown in.
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conceptmachine (02-13-2017)
02-13-2017, 09:35 PM
#230
It is rather shallow, i agree, but my mind is made up on it. More power to those that want own a cadillac ME. Enjoy it!
02-13-2017, 11:35 PM
#231
Exactly! I strongly believe if it's a Cadillac then it will be not be a success and they will have a very hard time selling it after the first few hundred orders.. The Corvette brand is a much, much higher & stronger brand than a Cadillac. Not even close! Cadillac is building great cars these days but they are still behind the rest of the World in perception of the brand. They need a true S Class rival at the moment imo.
The uber ME car belongs to a Corvette. It has more cachet, it's more World Class, long racing heritage and has a much more affluent customer base than a Cadillac. It is GM's Halo car! If anyone argues that then I'd be SMH.
The uber ME car belongs to a Corvette. It has more cachet, it's more World Class, long racing heritage and has a much more affluent customer base than a Cadillac. It is GM's Halo car! If anyone argues that then I'd be SMH.
Last edited by DaveFerrari458; 02-13-2017 at 11:35 PM.
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conceptmachine (02-13-2017)
02-13-2017, 11:52 PM
#232
All good points. I believe It would be a better business decision to bring it out as a stand alone model branded as a cheverolet than it would be intially as caddy.
Would be interesting to see if a response would come from lincoln, maybe a Pantera?
Would be interesting to see if a response would come from lincoln, maybe a Pantera?
02-14-2017, 02:22 AM
#233
Exactly! I strongly believe if it's a Cadillac then it will be not be a success and they will have a very hard time selling it after the first few hundred orders. The Corvette brand is a much, much higher & stronger brand than a Cadillac. Not even close! Cadillac is building great cars these days but they are still behind the rest of the World in perception of the brand. They need a true S Class rival at the moment imo.
The uber ME car belongs to a Corvette. It has more cachet, it's more World Class, long racing heritage and has a much more affluent customer base than a Cadillac. It is GM's Halo car! If anyone argues that then I'd be SMH.
The uber ME car belongs to a Corvette. It has more cachet, it's more World Class, long racing heritage and has a much more affluent customer base than a Cadillac. It is GM's Halo car! If anyone argues that then I'd be SMH.
Putting the Caddy badge on a technological marvel would be a great way to do it.
The Corvette is certainly GM's Halo MODEL, but not brand.
That would be Cadillac...it's the only GM brand known the world over.
From Tibet to Timbuktu, everyone has seen or heard of it.
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conceptmachine (02-14-2017)
02-14-2017, 01:47 PM
#234
Was going to put a deposit on it today, with the local dealer. Said he knew of it and that people were already asking to put in a deposit. I just figure why mess with a deposit until I know for certain what it's going to be.
02-14-2017, 02:37 PM
#236
Team Owner
GM has been wanting to upscale and bring more attention to the Cadillac brand for a long time.
Putting the Caddy badge on a technological marvel would be a great way to do it.
The Corvette is certainly GM's Halo MODEL, but not brand.
That would be Cadillac...it's the only GM brand known the world over.
From Tibet to Timbuktu, everyone has seen or heard of it.
Putting the Caddy badge on a technological marvel would be a great way to do it.
The Corvette is certainly GM's Halo MODEL, but not brand.
That would be Cadillac...it's the only GM brand known the world over.
From Tibet to Timbuktu, everyone has seen or heard of it.
A mid-engine sport car with the Cadillac badge would be to try to bring more attention to the Cadillac brand. Just as they tried with the XLR failure.
They are not doing it to just sell a few thousand extra cars. They are doing it to boost the brand(which I doubt it will).
Just like moving Cadillac's headquarters from Detroit to New York City. That was a move to try make the Cadillac brand more "up scale". LOL. They thought that distancing themselves from the remainder of GM would somehow make them "world class". LOL.
Cadillac's downfall started when they started using an Oldsmobile engine instead of their own designed and manufactured engine. Believe me when I say that it pissed off a lot of loyal Cadillac owners when they discovered they were paying top dollar for a lessor model's engine.
Cadillac has continued to do the same with their latest example being the sales disaster ERL. They threw a Caddy badge on it but everyone knew it was designed and manufactured side by side using the same parts and people as the Cheaper CHEVROLET Volt. After spending a boat load of money bringing the ERL to market, it is now out of production. Another sales failure for Cadillac.
The only really successful Caddy sales is the Escalade that everyone knows is a gaudy Chevrolet with a cult like following. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...3-escalade.htm
Last edited by JoesC5; 02-14-2017 at 03:44 PM.
02-14-2017, 03:20 PM
#237
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Sad about Cadillac because I thought the remodeled and aggressive CTS from a few years ago that ushered in the sharp-edge design was a step forward in the right direction. They have since softened that edge which IMO is what moved them forward. The current CTS and ATS sedans look more like Hondas than Cadillacs.
02-14-2017, 03:48 PM
#238
02-14-2017, 04:37 PM
#239
Safety Car
Exactly why Cadillac got into racing back in 2000(and quickly disappeared) and again with their DPi-V.R race car.
A mid-engine sport car with the Cadillac badge would be to try to bring more attention to the Cadillac brand. Just as they tried with the XLR failure.
They are not doing it to just sell a few thousand extra cars. They are doing it to boost the brand(which I doubt it will).
Just like moving Cadillac's headquarters from Detroit to New York City. That was a move to try make the Cadillac brand more "up scale". LOL. They thought that distancing themselves from the remainder of GM would somehow make them "world class". LOL.
Cadillac's downfall started when they started using an Oldsmobile engine instead of their own designed and manufactured engine. Believe me when I say that it pissed off a lot of loyal Cadillac owners when they discovered they were paying top dollar for a lessor model's engine.
Cadillac has continued to do the same with their latest example being the sales disaster ERL. They threw a Caddy badge on it but everyone knew it was designed and manufactured side by side using the same parts and people as the Cheaper CHEVROLET Volt. After spending a boat load of money bringing the ERL to market, it is now out of production. Another sales failure for Cadillac.
The only really successful Caddy sales is the Escalade that everyone knows is a gaudy Chevrolet with a cult like following. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...3-escalade.htm
A mid-engine sport car with the Cadillac badge would be to try to bring more attention to the Cadillac brand. Just as they tried with the XLR failure.
They are not doing it to just sell a few thousand extra cars. They are doing it to boost the brand(which I doubt it will).
Just like moving Cadillac's headquarters from Detroit to New York City. That was a move to try make the Cadillac brand more "up scale". LOL. They thought that distancing themselves from the remainder of GM would somehow make them "world class". LOL.
Cadillac's downfall started when they started using an Oldsmobile engine instead of their own designed and manufactured engine. Believe me when I say that it pissed off a lot of loyal Cadillac owners when they discovered they were paying top dollar for a lessor model's engine.
Cadillac has continued to do the same with their latest example being the sales disaster ERL. They threw a Caddy badge on it but everyone knew it was designed and manufactured side by side using the same parts and people as the Cheaper CHEVROLET Volt. After spending a boat load of money bringing the ERL to market, it is now out of production. Another sales failure for Cadillac.
The only really successful Caddy sales is the Escalade that everyone knows is a gaudy Chevrolet with a cult like following. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...3-escalade.htm
I wish that car would've been produced in a normal version instead of the electric. It was a good looking car. I wanted one, but like many people I still don't trust EV's..... I know they've got better with EV's, but that "cautious feeling" about the cars is still there... They would have def. sold a lot more if it was not an EV, because the car did look pretty good.
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conceptmachine (02-15-2017)
02-14-2017, 05:00 PM
#240
I'll throw my .02 in. I personally like the new Cadillacs, but I feel if GM offers a ME for both Cadillac and the Vette it would be wrong. They would be accused of their old nasty habit of badge engineering and more importantly the Caddy would be uber $$$ and wouldn't sell as good as the Vette. I think keeping it exclusive to the Vette would really help further cement the Vette's reputation as America's true sports car.
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conceptmachine (02-14-2017)