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After what GM said today after selling Opel after being in Europe for 90 years, I believe Cadillac will get the Mid Engine before Corvette, why ruin a good thing.
Are you implying a Corvette Mid engine supercar is ruining a good thing?
Now if they replace all FR layout corvettes with a single mid engine platform thats priced $100k + (far out of reach from the working man) then yes GM is officially killing Corvette as we know it.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 03-31-2017 at 11:05 PM.
No one (I should say not many) are going to buy an ultra expensive Cadillac Sports Car! The Corvette has a higher chance of selling much more! My guess would be 3 to 1.... $150K+ Cadillac 400-500 units $150K Corvette 1200-1500 units. If GM produces a legit ME Super Corvette (Zora) with a proper interior worthy of a $150K+ car and produces only 1200/year for say a pre-announced 3-4 year max run then they will sell each and every single one at MSRP!
Cadillac has a 4 door with the Corvette Z06 motor and the 8 speed! They sell them, they run $90-100K! But why would Corvette only build a mid engine when only a few can afford it.
so why does Cadillac have a mid engine race car, and Corvette doesn't???
After a 14-year absence, Cadillac is readying its return to endurance racing. The production-car tie-ins continue in the engine compartment. Behind the single-seat cockpit lurks a naturally-aspirated 6.2-liter V8, built by Earnhardt Childress Racing Engines of NASCAR fame, sharing displacement and piston layout (if little else) with the powerplant you can get in your Escalade or CTS-V.
Corvette racing quit in 2016, they are not racing this year, cause of rule changes. The Corvette DP is being phased out as IMSA moves to introduce new Prototype class regulations for 2017. The racecar won 36 races and took over 100 podium finishes in the 56 races it has been entered in since 2012. The DPs have been consistently faster than the Honda P2s they share the Prototype grid with, so many are welcoming the revised rulebook.
Eyes focused on new Prototype class at IMSA 24 Hours at Daytona
DAYTONA PROTOTYPE INTERNATIONAL CARS POWERED BY MAZDA, CADILLAC, NISSAN
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 04-17-2017 at 04:39 PM.
Reason: Merged Posts-please use the Multi-Quote button (the middle icon) in the lower right hand corner of each post to make your responses look like this!
No one (I should say not many) are going to buy an ultra expensive Cadillac Sports Car! The Corvette has a higher chance of selling much more! My guess would be 3 to 1.... $150K+ Cadillac 400-500 units $150K Corvette 1200-1500 units. If GM produces a legit ME Super Corvette (Zora) with a proper interior worthy of a $150K+ car and produces only 1200/year for say a pre-announced 3-4 year max run then they will sell each and every single one at MSRP!
+1
People thrive on what they CAN'T have. Ferrari is the master of this type of marketing. The new Ford GT confirms it.
I remember some years ago, Ferrari introducing a new car. Luca was asked by a car writer how many they were going to produce and he replied: "We are going to make exactly 2 less than the market requires". Brilliant.
I read the other day about the Ford GT Racing, how illegal it was racing that class without an assembly plant that produces the street version, the one they have isn't a Ford plant made in Canada, produces 250 a year at $400,000, can't buy one at a dealer! At $400,000 I could buy 4 Z06's!
No what I am saying is if it's not broke don't fix it, let Cadillac take the reins, they have one on the racing circuit already!
IMHO, it's just the opposite of your position. If Cadillac gets the mid-engine sports car and Corvette doesn't, that's a very bad note for Corvette. It means GM doesn't value Corvette as much as we think they do. It's not their "halo" car. Staying with the front engine design, as much as I like it, isn't moving the brand forward.
IMHO, it's just the opposite of your position. If Cadillac gets the mid-engine sports car and Corvette doesn't, that's a very bad note for Corvette. It means GM doesn't value Corvette as much as we think they do. It's not their "halo" car. Staying with the front engine design, as much as I like it, isn't moving the brand forward.
Sorry I must respectfully disagree with your thoughts. Corvette remains the halo car for Chevrolet, as Chevrolet remains the line that all middle class Americans readily relate too and can afford. Corvette is a line that sells to a wide consumer body, and will provide several body/model styles that can include more people in the middle class economy. In the future Chevrolet will focus on producing more electrical, hybrid, passenger cars, limit the gasoline passenger cars, might drop a line, and produce more SUVs and Trucks. I would not be surprised to see GM merge the Chevrolet truck line with GMC, and GMC merge its SUVs with Chevrolet. You do have a duplication of effort there.
Chevrolet lineup will remain to targeting specifically the largest part of the American demographic, the middleclass, the car for all people.
Now Buick is the Cadillac version of Chevrolet, targeting the demographic of 40 plus, with more refinements in their cars then Chevrolet and yet less then Cadillac. Buick fills and niche that will continue, as its SUV line continues to be profitable in the US, the passenger cars are extremely profitable, more then any other nameplate, in China. Owning a Buick in China has the mystic of owning a Mercedes in the US. Chinese LOVE Buicks, and its GMs most profitable venture overseas. Buick is changing much of its lineups to appeal to younger people in the 30s and 40s rather then the "Grey hairs" of the past few years. The re-design of the Lacrosse, although not being pushed, has been very successful for Buick in 2017. The new Lacrosse has been compared to the Lexus, Infinity and BMW 3 series, without the significant cost associated with the Lexus, Infinity etc. Re-design of the Lacrosse body, the style, lean look, and its updated finely appointed interior coupled with many of the same featured you find in the C7 Corvette, you have a sports sedan that is like no other Lacrosse of the past.
Buick's recent announcement of the Regal Hatchback and Sports Crossover, has caused a great response form the car buyers, Now Buick has established a waiting list of customer, they are to be release in fall of this year. Buick has not "officially" announced but did announce the Regal will be undergo a complete makeover for 2018 model year. The unofficial word is the Buick Gran National and GNX (limited model) will be release next year, using a supercharged V-6 engine for the Gran National and a twin turbo for the GNX pushing over 700 HP. Of course they will be Black with a light gray interior. Buick is dropping the GS Regal, as it is not selling, and will drop another model, maybe next year. The Envision is doing well, but it's big money maker continues to be the Enclave, and the Encore. Buick sales have increased a lot over the past two years thanks to the SUV lineup. GM is very happy with Buick. You will see more youthfull oriented adds for Buick in the coming year, as I have stated aiming for the market of the person in the mid-30 upward with an older family looking for the luxury without the Cadillac price. A market that focus on the refinement of Chevrolet lineup, with the intent to take that same mid-30 customer and graduate them in the late fourties to the Cadillac.
The tier marketing scheme has been developed in GM years ago. The Saturn, being dropped was for the first time buyer, and the person who wanted a cheaper but reliable form of transportation. Dropping Saturn and adding the smaller line cars in the Chevrolet lineup turned out to be a very successful venture for Chevrolet. Adding the Spark, Sonic, Cruz, and Trax, replaced the Saturn lineup. The Malibu was upgraded making it a more luxury, middle class car with addition of the hybrid line. The Volt and Bolt would cover the electric car market to keep develop going in GM for a better electric car that could be produced again for the middle class. The Impala was more of the fleet car purchased with the Malibu by many of the Car Rental, Company cars, and government, along with the lower end SUVs. Corvette, remained the HALO Sports car, and over course the Camaro (all models) the sports car for those that could not afford the Corvette or needed the backseat to justify buying it. Camaro sales remain flat this year, and we all now the Z-28 just did not make it, so that line was dropped for the ZL1. Camaro's future remains iffy.
Cadillac has always and will continue to target the upper 10%, more of the designer car for GM. Cadillac is VERY targeted to the upper middle and top 10% of the tax brackets, those that are financially well to do in the US. So producing a limited mid-engine car, that will cost more then the Corvette, making is exclusive, makes it very appealing to the higher income brackets, and will produce a bigger profit having a limited production, simply makes economical sense the mid-engine will carry the Cadillac nameplate.
The mid-engine is scheduled to be a limited run production car, I would venture to guess about three of four year run. Cadillac runs its sport version line up three of four years in production, the drops that line for a few years. Just reading many of the posts on the C8 forum, you get a good sense the diehard Corvette owner does not want the mid-engine, it wants the ZR1. Corvette traditionalist have spoken up in the past to stop Duntov's mid-engine several times.
Look back at the history of how Cadillac operates, and how Chevrolet operates. You will see the mid-engine is destined to be a Cadillac with a limited run. Most likely built in the Bowling Green plant, and many of the parts from Corvette will be shared with the mid-engine, just makes sense. If anything the article shows that GM is trimming down, finding more ways for production cost saving, to maximize profits....
Separate the passion you have for loving cars, and look purely at the business end of this, just follow the money. The cost and profit, shareholders, and market place, it make sense. GM is not in the car business, its in the business of producing cars for a profit. You will see some big changes over the next year or so, as GM does get smaller, but will produce a much better product. Compare the cars from the 80's to the cars being produced in 2017, what a long way the American Car business has come and it will get even better.
^^^ I'm not sure I agree with all the Buick emphasis, other than it is a good play for export sales, but I can't help notice the preponderance of Chevy and Cadillac dealership mergers over the whole country, and corresponding Buick and GMC dealerships mergers. I don't think this is an accident. If this is indeed, the intended market approach (in the USA) for GM, then arguing over whether the new ME is a Chevy or a Caddy is really splitting hairs. The big strategy at GM right now is pushing Cadillac sales growth, which is lagging Chevy, GMC and Buick sales growth. In that sense, adding a hot new mid-engine sports car to Cadillac's brand may work, particularly if the it is in the same dealership with Corvette fans.
What we will likely end up with is an lower cost sports car branded Corvette for Chevy, and a higher cost model for Cadillac. I think there will be ONE chassis which will be 90% common between the brands. If you remember the mid-1990's, we have seen this play out before...it worked a lot better for Chevy than for it did Cadillac the last time out. Whether this will work well time remains to be seen, but the strategy gives GM a lot of options to respond to market conditions and adjust as need be.
Everybody just needs to chill out a little as to whether its will be a Caddy or a Corvette. In the end it WILL be a Corvette family with two badges on it, depending on the BUYER. The Stingray will be the Chevy brand, the Zora or ZR1 will be the Cadillac brand. For most buyers, they will be displayed in adjacent showrooms.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 04-17-2017 at 04:38 PM.
Having driven the C7 for almost 2.5 years I will say this. The Corvette should be built by a GM subsidiary that has the best working culture. I don't care that it's a Buick or Chevy as long as it's built to last and it is designed well.
To be frank, I think the Camaro team are best of the bunch and their product is far more robust. The ZL1 has the edge, and not by a little in optimization, aero, and thermal management. Give the helm to Al Oppenheiser.
Just in case anyone forgot how this turned out the last time, take a look. Corvette guys have nothing to worry about. The Cadillac will provide the money to get the mid-engine off the ground, but "Art & Science" will insure that the only GM mid-engine left standing in 2025 will be a Corvette.
Just in case anyone forgot how this turned out the last time, take a look. Corvette guys have nothing to worry about. The Cadillac will provide the money to get the mid-engine off the ground, but "Art & Science" will insure that the only GM mid-engine left standing in 2025 will be a Corvette.
Twin sons from different mothers
I hope you are right, but if history repeats itself, the XLR was a dismal failure for Caddy. Much fewer were sold and the run was cut short by almost 2 years, was suppose to be a 5-6 year run. If the mid engine is priced too high, again few can afford to purchase. The C7 Corvette has pushed the envelope on affordability for most, going way above the 100K mark will cause people to think twice before laying out the same cash you could to purchase and established Porsche. Its rather a risky endeavor at this junction in the political and economical state we (the U.S.) is in. Let's see what happens.....
03-30-2017, 11:00 PM
GM downsizing
