March

The C6 first year was 2015 but the XLR which is a C6, first year was 2014. C6 Caddy peak performance in 2006 XLR-V a very heavy luxury sports car but Corvette stayed true to sports car roots and was the real performance car with Z06 and ZR1. Is it possible the same progression will be true for the ME C8?

jimmyb

The Cadillacs racing in IMSA are about as much "Cadillac" as Jimmy Johnson's stock car is a "Chevrolet".
I wouldn't use the Cadillac racing program as proof of a ME Cadillac production car as the 2 have nothing do with each other. The Caddy prototypes use a Dallara chassis (as do others in the series).

As a final note: The cold weather testing with the ME car and ZR1 (?) together would lend some credence to the ME car being a Corvette, as I've never seen 2 divisions (Caddy and Chevy) testing together (not to say it's never happened, I've just never seen it).

JoesC5

^^^ When GM had their testing facility in Manitou Springs, CO, I saw a Cadillac 4 door sedan(completely covered in padded vinyl camo) and a Chevy Silverado dually(everything behind cab covered in padded vinyl camo) there at the same time.

I walked around them inside the fencing to get a good look.

Vette_DD

Wow, 18-year old article.

Don't bet any more on this than you can afford to lose.

jimmyb

2k07z06

If it happens me along with a lot of other loyal Vette owners will be gone from GM. Ford GT?

JoesC5

^^^ So, a bunch of loyal Corvette owners are going to trade their $70K Corvette in for a $450K Ford GT to teach GM a lesson. I really doubt that very many loyal Corvette owners can pony up an extra $380K just to show GM that they are messing with the wrong group of Corvette owners.

Plus I believe that every one of the 250 GT's that Ford is going to build annually for the next four years are already spoken for, so be prepared to pay way more than $450K for a used one.

2k07z06

^^^ Wll, you can get an '05 or '06 for a fraction of that price, I forgot not all Corvette owners can go out and get one if they want. My apologies but still would tick me off if they were to do that and I might be one to flee to the older GT

ksmithwick

^^^ Apparently you don't know the Ford GT market very well. A 2005 or 2006 GT with a clean title will run you $350-$500k. Or in other words the same price as the new one if you could get your hands on one.

GM sells 35,000 Corvettes a year, they probably don't care about the 200 people on this forum that they **** off.

CaliforniaJack

Cadillac made an upscale model on the Corvette floor awhile back. It didn't sell and was dropped. The volume potential lies within Corvette. If Porsche can sell a mid-engine car for $75k, why can't Corvette for less than 100k if it has much higher volume going for it?

born2beS12

[QUOTE=jimmyb;1594585096]The Cadillacs racing in IMSA are about as much "Cadillac" as Jimmy Johnson's stock car is a "Chevrolet".
I wouldn't use the Cadillac racing program as proof of a ME Cadillac production car as the 2 have nothing do with each other. The Caddy prototypes use a Dallara chassis (as do others in the series).
QUOTE]

Actually the imsa cars have everything to do with street cars. where do you think these manufacturers test their the next generation of performance parts for durability before being available to the public?

Ford tested and developed the entire Ford GT powertrain for 2yrs in the prototype class before actually installing it in the GTLM car. So why would Cadillac not also do the same with there mid engine development? its not the chassis they need to test its engine durability and this is the perfect place to test out in the open.

LIStingray

If you are considering a 350 hp 718 Cayman S as the benchmark - which is the $75,000 mid-engine Porsche (aka the modern equivalent of a second generation (1989-1999) Toyota MR2) - then what the hell is the point of a mid-engine Corvette - a Grand Sport will do the same will outperform a 718 Cayman S for less money.
And, the 718 is outsold 6:1 by the C7 - Porsche averages about 6,000 718's (Cayman & Boxster combined) sold in the US for 2104-2017. At 6,000 C8's per year, the cost per car compared to a C7 would have to go up quite a bit.

JoesC5

Porsche sells way more Boxsters/Cayman than the ~6,000 they sell annually in the USA. Porsche's largest market is outside of the USA, whereas the Corvette's market is 90% within the USA. The amortized cost is based on total sales, not just those sold in the USA. GM sold 29,995 C7's in 2016 in the USA and only a little over 2,400 outside of the USA.

Porsche sold 6060 Boxsters and Caymans worldwide in the 1st Quarter, 2017, and that doesn't count the 911's which sell higher than the Boxster/Cayman.. In the USA, the 1st quarter sales of the Boxster and the Cayman was 1,494. The USA 1st quarter sales of the 911 was 2,159. The 1st quarter USA sales of Corvettes was 5,804.

Porsche sells more sports cars than GM does.

1KULC7

I would agree with your statement....

sunsalem

The line is starting around back.

Exactly right, Joe.

True.


Your logic is sound, but I'm not so sure GM is doing this right now...at least not in a big way.

Corgidog1

If the Oldsmobile was still in production, that might have been the first GM car to have a mid engine as Olds was the brand GM used to try new things, i.e. front wheel drive and a host of other innovations first tried on Olds.

hitthegopedal

Couple points:

1. XLR? GM made the assumption that badge engineering was for enthusiasts and not just for the feeble minded public. The problem was that while the XLR was pretty, it didn't perform as well as the vette and they wanted more money for it. "Upscale" needs to be "better" and it wasn't. Have you driven one? Anemic is the word that comes to mind.

2. Porsche is a world renowned brand that specializes in sports cars. Corvette is a model of sports car from Chevrolet - a company that makes a great sports car, but also makes the Spark. Porsche has proven that they can build a non-performing ****box and people will buy it (I call this the BMW effect) because of the pedigree. Corvette has this same position (as a model), but I'm still not sure why people speak of Corvette like it's a brand.

3. I'd bet that out of all GM's efforts to come out with a Ford GT competitor, none of those efforts have gone into selling it for less than a Z06.... Comparing whatever GM has up their sleeve with a $75k Cayman/Boxer is like comparing apples and firetrucks because they're both red.

jimmyb

They (Cadillac) are not developing an engine the way Ford did. The Cadillac prototypes use the good old 6.2L small block Chevy engine. Most feel that the ME car (Caddy or Corvette) will have the LT5 DOHC engine in it.

JoesC5

While Cadillac has decided to use the 6.2L V8 in it's prototype race car, they have been working on their TT V6 engines, just like Ford.

Ford has the 3.5L V6 at 325/450, 375/470 and the H.O. version at 450/510, in their trucks.

Then they upped it to 647 HP for the expensive Ford GT mid engine sports car.

Cadillac has the 3.0L V6 at 404/400 and the 3.6L V6 at 464/445 in their sedans, which is higher horsepower than Ford(not counting the GT version).

It wouldn't take much to raise the level of the Cadillac 3.6L V6's horsepower to near Ford GT levels for their expensive mid-engine sports car(but not near as expansive as the Ford GT, as they will tool up for a much higher production level than Ford did with the GT).

I can see the Cadillac version with a low horsepower( 404 TT 3.0L V6) and a mid horsepower(475-500 TT 3.6L V6) and a high horsepower(550-575 TT 3.6L V6) based on their current TT 3.6L V6 and the Corvette version with a mid horsepower(500-525 NA DOHC V8) with a high horsepower (650-750 FI DOHC V8), to dissuade people from saying the Cadillac version is nothing more than a rebadged Corvette, but at a higher price. BUT, to pull it off, Cadillac has to make sure their version doesn't look like a Corvette with slightly different body panels.

I really doubt that GM will have the Cadillac version with a higher horsepower than the Corvette, as it would be competing against Mercedes AMG GT(456 & 503 & 577 HP), and the Mercedes SL Roadster(362 & 449 & 577 & 621 HP) and Acura NSX(573 HP) while the Corvette would be competing against Ford GT & Porsche, etc.

Cadillac = expensive luxury with good performance while Corvette = high performance with a low(er) price tag

sunsalem

Not to quibble, but the failure of the XLR wasn't its performance.
It was meant as a competitor for the MB legendary GT, the SL500, not the Corvette.
FWIW, its power rating was on par with the baseline SL.
The problem was MB customers, ultimately, were not willing to cross the line to a Cadillac as GM had hoped.

I don't see the GM ME as being designed as a competitor to the Ford GT $400k+ hypercar...far from it.
By comparison, it will be a high volume car.

And/or a V6 TT hybrid.