If Corvette made a 6 cylinder?
06-19-2017, 12:48 PM
#41
Team Owner
2017 Z06 with a 6.2L 650 HP engine with an auto transmission gets 13 city/23 highway.
Now lets look at the Ford GT with a 3.5L HP 647 HP with an automatic transmission that gets 11 city/18 highway.
Now lets look at the Audi R8 with a 5.2L V10 with an automatic transmission with 610 HP that gets 14 city/22 highway.
If you want to compare lower HP models(460-470 HP), then the base Stingray has a 6.2L V8 automatic transmission with 460 HP that gets 15 city/ 25 highway(30+ highway in the real world), but the Cadillac ATS-V with it's 3.6L V6 and 364 HP automatic transmission gets 17/25 MPG. Not much of an improvement(only in the city) and the ATS-V won't accelerate 0-60 in 3.2/3.4 seconds(it will do it in 3.8 seconds with a top speed higher than the Corvette at 189 MPH, because of it's better aerodynamics vs the C7).
When you look at cars with comparable horsepower, the small displacement V6 gets worse gas mileage than the larger displacement V8/V10.
My honkin' 7L 505+ HP C6 Z06 is rated at 15/24, but in the real world, it gets over 30 MPG on the highway. I can add an E-Force to it and have 657 HP(comparable to the C7 Z06 and the Ford GT), and my city/highway gas mileage wouldn't drop below what I now get, as the EPA does not measure fuel economy with your right foot on the floor.
That's my argument for the Corvette staying with a big V8.
Now lets look at the Ford GT with a 3.5L HP 647 HP with an automatic transmission that gets 11 city/18 highway.
Now lets look at the Audi R8 with a 5.2L V10 with an automatic transmission with 610 HP that gets 14 city/22 highway.
If you want to compare lower HP models(460-470 HP), then the base Stingray has a 6.2L V8 automatic transmission with 460 HP that gets 15 city/ 25 highway(30+ highway in the real world), but the Cadillac ATS-V with it's 3.6L V6 and 364 HP automatic transmission gets 17/25 MPG. Not much of an improvement(only in the city) and the ATS-V won't accelerate 0-60 in 3.2/3.4 seconds(it will do it in 3.8 seconds with a top speed higher than the Corvette at 189 MPH, because of it's better aerodynamics vs the C7).
When you look at cars with comparable horsepower, the small displacement V6 gets worse gas mileage than the larger displacement V8/V10.
My honkin' 7L 505+ HP C6 Z06 is rated at 15/24, but in the real world, it gets over 30 MPG on the highway. I can add an E-Force to it and have 657 HP(comparable to the C7 Z06 and the Ford GT), and my city/highway gas mileage wouldn't drop below what I now get, as the EPA does not measure fuel economy with your right foot on the floor.
That's my argument for the Corvette staying with a big V8.
06-19-2017, 08:43 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
Small Turbo Engines Don’t Deliver on Fuel Economy Promises: Consumer Reports
Michael
06-20-2017, 12:23 PM
#43
Race Director
If corvette made a 3.9L 235ci engine like the one that was in the original C1 would you be interested?
I was thinking about it and something like the LZ9 with 240hp and 240ftlbs could work. Modernized that engine could work and give better gas milage and a lower cost.
but would corvette owners go for that?
honestly I would be interested.
I was thinking about it and something like the LZ9 with 240hp and 240ftlbs could work. Modernized that engine could work and give better gas milage and a lower cost.
but would corvette owners go for that?
honestly I would be interested.
06-25-2017, 08:00 PM
#45
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St. Jude Donor '05
No V8 no interest no matter how much power it made;same goes with no manual trans option
Sound is part of its character.
Sound is part of its character.
Last edited by cv67; 06-25-2017 at 08:02 PM.
06-28-2017, 08:59 PM
#49
Sounds like a lawn mower, i.e., terrible.
06-28-2017, 09:02 PM
#50
I also think they are trying to sell their turbo v6's in there pickup trucks. It is a bad idea in the pickups too. If you could gain mpg or save weight with the v6 maybe the crappy exhaust note would be more acceptable, as it is why bother. So many new things are just trends without justification or improvement other than being different.
06-29-2017, 02:05 PM
#51
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The Cadillac ATS-V has a 425 HP 3.6L Twin turbo 6 that does 0-60 in 3.9 and the 1/4 mile in 12.1. The car weighs in at 3400 pounds, a bit more than a Vette. Tweak those numbers up a notch or two and they would beat a base model Corvette. So from a strictly performance-related point of view, the 3.6 stuck in a Vette can do it, if not exceed current performance. Aesthetic issues like the V-8 rumble are emotional ones, and people who claim "I'll walk!" if they can't have a V-8 or can't have a manual are mostly bluffing. If that's what is available, that's what they will buy. Besides, where will they go? These trends are industry-wide. They don't apply only to Corvette. It's kind of like the round tail lights or exposed headlights. If you read the forums when those changes were implemented, you'd believe the Corvette was going to die. But it didn't, and you don't hear much about those issues any more. I'm sure there will be another firestorm if it happens, but most of the planet will move on and leave the diehards in the dust, growing increasingly more lonely. Besides, there will be a 'Lectric Vette along in a few years with unbelievable torque and speed. And you will be panting over it.
06-29-2017, 08:31 PM
#52
Team Owner
The Cadillac ATS-V has a 425 HP 3.6L Twin turbo 6 that does 0-60 in 3.9 and the 1/4 mile in 12.1. The car weighs in at 3400 pounds, a bit more than a Vette. Tweak those numbers up a notch or two and they would beat a base model Corvette. So from a strictly performance-related point of view, the 3.6 stuck in a Vette can do it, if not exceed current performance. Aesthetic issues like the V-8 rumble are emotional ones, and people who claim "I'll walk!" if they can't have a V-8 or can't have a manual are mostly bluffing. If that's what is available, that's what they will buy. Besides, where will they go? These trends are industry-wide. They don't apply only to Corvette. It's kind of like the round tail lights or exposed headlights. If you read the forums when those changes were implemented, you'd believe the Corvette was going to die. But it didn't, and you don't hear much about those issues any more. I'm sure there will be another firestorm if it happens, but most of the planet will move on and leave the diehards in the dust, growing increasingly more lonely. Besides, there will be a 'Lectric Vette along in a few years with unbelievable torque and speed. And you will be panting over it.
06-30-2017, 11:36 AM
#53
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Keep thinking that you speak for everyone. I wouldnt be panting over a V6 Corvette or an Electric one. And I'm not an old-timer, but in my mid 30's so I'll be around a long time still. if Corvette goes the way you wish, those that are like minded towards FR and V8, will find another model. There will always be a market for what we want. Since you feel it fit to change something, and make it into something else instead of creating a different model for your market.
06-30-2017, 01:14 PM
#54
Team Owner
The Cadillac ATS-V has a 425 HP 3.6L Twin turbo 6 that does 0-60 in 3.9 and the 1/4 mile in 12.1. The car weighs in at 3400 pounds, a bit more than a Vette. Tweak those numbers up a notch or two and they would beat a base model Corvette. So from a strictly performance-related point of view, the 3.6 stuck in a Vette can do it, if not exceed current performance. Aesthetic issues like the V-8 rumble are emotional ones, and people who claim "I'll walk!" if they can't have a V-8 or can't have a manual are mostly bluffing. If that's what is available, that's what they will buy. Besides, where will they go? These trends are industry-wide. They don't apply only to Corvette. It's kind of like the round tail lights or exposed headlights. If you read the forums when those changes were implemented, you'd believe the Corvette was going to die. But it didn't, and you don't hear much about those issues any more. I'm sure there will be another firestorm if it happens, but most of the planet will move on and leave the diehards in the dust, growing increasingly more lonely. Besides, there will be a 'Lectric Vette along in a few years with unbelievable torque and speed. And you will be panting over it.
C&D showed the 2016 ATS-V M6 at 0-60 in 4.2 seconds and the 1/4 mile at 12.5 seconds at 117 MPH and a top speed of 189 MPH
Where did you come up with 425 HP and 3400 pounds weight?
It's going to take a hell of a lot of 'tweaking" to get the ATS-V to match the 0-60(3.4 seconds) and 1/4 mile(11.4 seconds at 127 MPH) times, with a 198 MPH top speed, of my old obsolete C6 Z06 M6 with it's 7L V8 with 505 HP at 3175 pounds that is rated 15 city and 24 highway(and my best average was 33.0 MPG(DIC) on a 450 mile drive from Springfield, MO to Natchez, MS) and my normal average on week long road trip to the mountains is around 29 MPG.
Drop that 464 HP TT V6 into my C6 Z06 and it will be like deploying a parachute while having to stop more often for gas.
Last edited by JoesC5; 06-30-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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JustinStrife (06-30-2017)
06-30-2017, 09:17 PM
#55
Team Owner
Wrong on both counts. I don't claim to speak for everyone, and what I outlined is not the way I wish it to go. But I can see market trends and forces, including pressures from areas other than what consumers think they want. When gas is $20 a gallon you'll be thinking the 'Lectric Vette is pretty cool and be bragging how it beats a Tesla. You seem to think V8s, like manuals, will always be around simply because you want them. Tadge has said, "Enjoy the manuals while you can." Why would he say that? Well, sales are down to 22% for 2017 and at some point the companies that make them will go out of business. YOU, the consumer (in general) have already said you don't want them. Where will you get the manuals when they're no longer made? Where will you get your beloved V8 when it's no longer an option? You will be relegated to the used market, or you will change your mind.
People thought we would have flying cars a decade ago. Hasnt happened yet. When the day does come, maybe 50 years down the road, then I may not be driving anyway. Or I may have my classic C11 sitting in the garage with a tank full of petroleum ready to go out on cruise night.
07-01-2017, 08:46 AM
#56
Team Owner
Can you explain when and why gas prices will reach 20 dollars a gallon? No matter what you think, there will always be a market for a V8 as long as gasoline is the premier source of fuel for our vehicles. And that will not be changing yet.
People thought we would have flying cars a decade ago. Hasnt happened yet. When the day does come, maybe 50 years down the road, then I may not be driving anyway. Or I may have my classic C11 sitting in the garage with a tank full of petroleum ready to go out on cruise night.
People thought we would have flying cars a decade ago. Hasnt happened yet. When the day does come, maybe 50 years down the road, then I may not be driving anyway. Or I may have my classic C11 sitting in the garage with a tank full of petroleum ready to go out on cruise night.
Minimum wage will be $75 per hour
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-01-2017 at 08:48 AM.
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JustinStrife (07-01-2017)
07-01-2017, 11:52 AM
#57
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When his gas price hits $20 a gallon, electricity for his EV will be at $2 kWh.
Things are happening fast and market forces will determine the outcome based on prices, not on your desire for a V8. Nobody needs a V8. You just want one, but that alone is insufficient to keep them in production. I want a manual transmission, too, but my guess is my M7 will be the last one. I had to order it from the factory because they are rare on dealer lots. With a 22% market share and falling, dealers don't want to stock them. Old farts still think they own the show, but it's the younger guys that do the majority of the buying overall, and they don't know how to drive them. Sorry, but things are changing. Get your head up off the speedo and take a look around.
Last edited by mschuyler; 07-01-2017 at 11:54 AM.
07-01-2017, 03:04 PM
#58
Sure I can. You have three basic forces at work. One is that oil is not an infinite resource. We may be swimming in it now, but the combination of a finite resource and increasing demand from the developing world, not to mention China, will put severe pressure on prices. Thirdly, there's this little problem with carbon. I don't happen to share in the Doomsday Prophecies of Climate Change, but there's no doubt it is warming up and there's no doubt that CO2 is the highest it's been in about 60 million years. And even if you and I don't believe the hype, the rest of the world does. That means there will be enormous pressure to cut fossil fuels, and the way government does that is through taxing the hell out of something they don't want you to use. (Funny how they always benefit.) In Great Britain today gas prices are approaching $10.00 a gallon. They are already half way there.
Or maybe it will be a penny. My cousin just bought a Tesla Model S. He also has solar panels on his roof. He is essentially off the grid and runs his Tesla for free. The new Cadillac CTS has an EV option that lasts for 60 some odd miles. At first I thought this was kinda silly, but there's method to their madness. Most trips are less than 50 miles--to the store and back. I talked to a guy last week who has an earlier version. He said after a year he got a message on his dash telling him the car was going to force him to use a tank of gas because the gas in his tank was too old. As people figure out this idea actually works well there will be more and more of them very quickly.
Things are happening fast and market forces will determine the outcome based on prices, not on your desire for a V8. Nobody needs a V8. You just want one, but that alone is insufficient to keep them in production. I want a manual transmission, too, but my guess is my M7 will be the last one. I had to order it from the factory because they are rare on dealer lots. With a 22% market share and falling, dealers don't want to stock them. Old farts still think they own the show, but it's the younger guys that do the majority of the buying overall, and they don't know how to drive them. Sorry, but things are changing. Get your head up off the speedo and take a look around.
Things are happening fast and market forces will determine the outcome based on prices, not on your desire for a V8. Nobody needs a V8. You just want one, but that alone is insufficient to keep them in production. I want a manual transmission, too, but my guess is my M7 will be the last one. I had to order it from the factory because they are rare on dealer lots. With a 22% market share and falling, dealers don't want to stock them. Old farts still think they own the show, but it's the younger guys that do the majority of the buying overall, and they don't know how to drive them. Sorry, but things are changing. Get your head up off the speedo and take a look around.
^Something
I would have to agree.
I have the same feelings about V8's, I want to keep them. However the simple truth is at the end of the day it's all about the "bean counters" if they know they are going to make bigger margins with V6's and AT's then what we want becomes incidental because we are a niche market for all intents and purposes and like it or not it is what it is and for the powers that be to entertain any other thinking would be fiscally irresponsible... That makes what we want irrelevant, I don't like either but lets just hope it takes longer than expected for said transitions to come to fruition. But I don't have any delusions about want VS bigger profit margins.
07-01-2017, 05:35 PM
#59
The new GT is sharing the same engine as the Raptor and those sound awful, my Business Partner has one. In the Truck it "fakes" the exhaust thru the speakers... not sure on that one however.
Again. This is why I bought my 2014 before the government mandated that I drive an iRobot piece of poop electric.
People keep saying the bubble is gonna burst on the Older Car market, not if our Government has its say. Hi MPG Turbo whistling pieces of poop for All
Again... my preference, my opinion. YMMV (Mine will be 12 LOL)
Last edited by Kruegmeister; 07-01-2017 at 05:37 PM.
07-03-2017, 10:43 PM
#60
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St. Jude Donor '05
imagine how many Vipers would have sold if they sounded like the Hellcat not a UPS truck 
l
l