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Mid-Engine C8 Corvette to boast near six-figure price, arrive in 2019

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Old 05-15-2018, 10:09 PM   #121  
MitchAlsup
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I also have a picture of my 7.0L Z06 averaging 33.0 MPG for 450 mile trip from Springfield, MO to Natchez, MS.
I now have a picture of my GLE 450 getting 32.2 MPG over 244 miles.

But my point was that a C7 has way smaller frontal area than a great big SUV--and thus its aero resistance should be significantly lower ( then the GLS) and its milage should reflect same.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:13 PM   #122  
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Forced induction engines get poor mpg, particularly when on boost and when running regular octane fuel for about 7 reasons: 1) lower effective compression required to reduce pre-ignition, 2) richer fuel mixture to reduce pre-ignition, 3) retarded ignition timing to reduce pre-ignition, 4) additional parasitic drag to run component, 5) increased weight. 6) additional coolers so more air resistance, 7) additional pumps to run.
So, if this is true, then why can I get 32MPG in a GLS?

Which weighs more than a Vette (by close to 1000 pounds) has close to 1.6X the frontal area of the Vette, and in my case the 450 engine is definitely Twin Turbo.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:56 AM   #123  
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You must have not been following GM's story on why they went through drastic changes in making the C7. They wanted to appeal to MORE people specifically the YOUNGER generation. Good luck achieving that with your guess about the C8. By the way, the "Halo Viper" has ended production. I wonder why?
I agree - the Audi R8 is reportedly dead and the Acura NSX is on death’s door. The business case does not close for ANY Corvette or ANY GM sports car unless they can sell 33,000 of them a year.

I think the GM Authority report may be based on the car that would go to Australia, which may NOT be the base model. Export Corvettes have been upmarket versions in the recent past. For instance, if the Australian base model is actually a Z06-equivalent with an LT4, then $89k makes sense, and would imply a base model with an LT1 for the US market at ~$70K. I think GM is betting they can sell 33,000 cars a year IF they can keep the US base model within $10K of the C7, AND they can expand export sales. Even so, they are hedging the bet by keeping the C7 in production for at least 2 more years.

As they say, we’ll see !!

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Old 05-16-2018, 02:35 AM   #124  
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With 505hp, that won't be close to Ferrari beating, unless they can get the weight waaaaay down, which I highly doubt. A 488 has 660hp and weighs about 3200. A 505hp m/e corvette would need to weigh only 2500lbs to be equivalent. I really don't see that happening. Maybe the high spec models will eventually, but surely not the base.

And anyone that thinks m/e corvette will cost 200k is smoking crack. Who would buy it over an exotic ? Not many, unless the performance was off the charts.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:57 AM   #125  
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I agree - the Audi R8 is reportedly dead and the Acura NSX is on death’s door. The business case does not close for ANY Corvette or ANY GM sports car unless they can sell 33,000 of them a year.

I think the GM Authority report may be based on the car that would go to Australia, which may NOT be the base model. Export Corvettes have been upmarket versions in the recent past. For instance, if the Australian base model is actually a Z06-equivalent with an LT4, then $89k makes sense, and would imply a base model with an LT1 for the US market at ~$70K. I think GM is betting they can sell 33,000 cars a year IF they can keep the US base model within $10K of the C7, AND they can expand export sales. Even so, they are hedging the bet by keeping the C7 in production for at least 2 more years.

As they say, we’ll see !!
Some good points, especially about exports. The one thing that I can't really wrap my head around is the idea of bringing out the ME and still producing the C7 simultaneously. I say that because from a marketing standpoint it's like saying, "Here you go, we've finally built the car we've been toying with for 50 years. But we're not sure you're gonna like it, so we'll keep making the old one, just in case you don't."
We're not sure you're gonna like it is not a winning sales pitch.

The only thing that would make any sense in that scenario is if the mid engine car came out as an ultra high performance model out of the gate. A special car following it's own generational timeline. Then in 2 years the C8, as the successor to the C7, in traditional FE format is revealed. I just don't see them rolling out a new generation while still building the last one. If the mid engine is the C8, they will tell us this is the latest and greatest and old one is obsolete in comparison.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:43 AM   #126  
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It’s possible to have 2 configurations of mid-engine and front-engine. These small block engines are pretty easy to fit even in the rear of a C7.
After all, there’s vents and wings that exist on both Z06 and base model that are non-functional on the latter.

Don’t get me wrong, I still want an ME (as long as it’s not $89k), but there’s a lot of freaking out going on for a car that doesn’t exist lol

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:52 PM   #127  
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That was for enduring nagging. A necessary survival skill for the married man.
You got that, man!
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:18 PM   #128  
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With 505hp, that won't be close to Ferrari beating, unless they can get the weight waaaaay down, which I highly doubt. A 488 has 660hp and weighs about 3200. A 505hp m/e corvette would need to weigh only 2500lbs to be equivalent. I really don't see that happening. Maybe the high spec models will eventually, but surely not the base.

And anyone that thinks m/e corvette will cost 200k is smoking crack. Who would buy it over an exotic ? Not many, unless the performance was off the charts.
A Grand Sport was only 2 secs behind the 488GTB at 2016's Lightning Lap. The Z06 stomped it.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:46 PM   #129  
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So, if this is true, then why can I get 32MPG in a GLS?

Which weighs more than a Vette (by close to 1000 pounds) has close to 1.6X the frontal area of the Vette, and in my case the 450 engine is definitely Twin Turbo.
Since it has a EPA rating of 17 city and 22 highway, I think you had better hermetically seal it in a vault, as it's a one of a kind SUV.

Bet I could leave Fernley, NV(elev 4,160 feet) on I-80 and drive the 244 miles to Emeryville, CA(elev 26 feet) and get around 60 MPG average for that 244 mile downhill run in my Z06. Driving back wouldn't be so great, though.

While I haven't driven from Fernley, NV, I have driven from Truckee, CA down to Emeryville, CA on I-80. Left Truckee with a half tank of gas and I had to stop in Sacramento to drain some gas out of my tank, as it was near overflowing.

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Old 05-16-2018, 04:27 PM   #130  
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If we assume the article is correct and the base ME starts at $89k, then the typical Corvette (based upon current profiles) Stingray (not GS or Z06) leaves BG at an average MSRP of $69,000 - $14,000 above starting price, then the average ME will be priced at $103,000.
There are a boatload of people who can and do stretch to afford a $69k car that just can't afford a $103,000 car; and more to the point for anyone to suggest with a 50% increase in base price that GM will sell 30,000+ per year C8's is just insane. The number of single car models that cost $100,000 or more and sell at more than 30,000 units per year in the US is = ZERO. Corvette won't change that.
Once Corvette goes mid-engine only, you remove those who use the Corvette for anything but track or weekend around town use - I am willing to bet those people represent 25-30% of buyers; from there you can also remove 75% of the approximate 18% (6,000/yr) of buyers who purchase convertibles as there can me no mid-engine convertible; and that leaves you with a pool of buyers (not factoring in the cost issues) that is 40% smaller than the current Corvette pool.
If GM does go down the ME only plan, I hope the plan amortizes the tooling and costs for an average of 10,000 cars per year - because if they don't and GM loses money on the C8 (something it hasn't done since the early days of the C1), the Corvette will disappear in any form forever.
I think there may a be a ME convertible on the horizon. Ferrari has the F360, F430, 458 Spyder and 488 Spyder, and all are mid-engined. You can't tell me the Italians have more engineering capability than our GM engineers.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:52 PM   #131  
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"Utility?"
In a Sportscar?
Buying a Sportscar for its utility is like dating Scarlett Johansson for her culinary skills.
Hey, Scarlett made me breakfast last Saturday morning. She's a GREAT cook!......
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:05 PM   #132  
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So, if this is true, then why can I get 32MPG in a GLS?

Which weighs more than a Vette (by close to 1000 pounds) has close to 1.6X the frontal area of the Vette, and in my case the 450 engine is definitely Twin Turbo.
Unless you compare that exact vehicle under the same conditions to a NA version, your statement is essentially nonsense.

So a good comparison of the exact same vehicle, with identical gearing and architecture would be like a C6GS vs. a C6 ZR1 or a C7GS vs C7Z06. In both of these comparisons the NA engine wins handily in regards to mpg.

In the Autocross section right now member 'Poor-sha' compared a C7GS vs a C7Z06 on the same track and compared many parameters of their lap times. One parameter that was noted was mpg, where the GS got approximately DOUBLE the fuel economy of what the Z06 got. Such is the reality of a Forced Induction car under boost. Fact is a built NA GS would be a far superior track car to the C7Z but I digress...

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Old 05-16-2018, 07:34 PM   #133  
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As a McLaren and C7Z owner, I don't want an $89K base mid engine car. There's no way the quality will be anywhere near that of exotics at that price point. I'd much prefer the car to start in the $200K range and be an exotic killer. I, for one, am not interested in buying an updated Fiero.

Keep the front engine platform similarly priced to where it is, and offer us a Ford GT fighter for a little less dough and I'm in.
Most of us don't have near $300,000 to buy cars with so we want a Corvette Mid Engine that we can pay for and enjoy
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:36 PM   #134  
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so.. The base or near base price of the c8 will be 120,000$? In two years.

Or is that australian dollars? If us dollars that puts it out of reach of the tradition corvette buyer.
zr1 next decade???
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:41 PM   #135  
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If we assume the article is correct and the base ME starts at $89k, then the typical Corvette (based upon current profiles) Stingray (not GS or Z06) leaves BG at an average MSRP of $69,000 - $14,000 above starting price, then the average ME will be priced at $103,000.
There are a boatload of people who can and do stretch to afford a $69k car that just can't afford a $103,000 car; and more to the point for anyone to suggest with a 50% increase in base price that GM will sell 30,000+ per year C8's is just insane. The number of single car models that cost $100,000 or more and sell at more than 30,000 units per year in the US is = ZERO. Corvette won't change that.
Once Corvette goes mid-engine only, you remove those who use the Corvette for anything but track or weekend around town use - I am willing to bet those people represent 25-30% of buyers; from there you can also remove 75% of the approximate 18% (6,000/yr) of buyers who purchase convertibles as there can me no mid-engine convertible; and that leaves you with a pool of buyers (not factoring in the cost issues) that is 40% smaller than the current Corvette pool.
If GM does go down the ME only plan, I hope the plan amortizes the tooling and costs for an average of 10,000 cars per year - because if they don't and GM loses money on the C8 (something it hasn't done since the early days of the C1), the Corvette will disappear in any form forever.


Who are these "just about everyone " thinks the C8 will be a front engine model? Didn't GM show dealers a peek at the car and wasn't it a MID ENGINE CAR?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 PM   #136  
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So, if this is true, then why can I get 32MPG in a GLS?

Which weighs more than a Vette (by close to 1000 pounds) has close to 1.6X the frontal area of the Vette, and in my case the 450 engine is definitely Twin Turbo.
Who averages 60mph for 244 miles?
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:55 AM   #137  
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Who are these "just about everyone " thinks the C8 will be a front engine model? Didn't GM show dealers a peek at the car and wasn't it a MID ENGINE CAR?
Sure, they showed them "a" mid engine Corvette. This really doesn't mean anything more than they are most likely going to produce a mid engine Corvette. However, there may also be a new generation FE Corvette to follow shortly behind.

Let's not forget that GM has officially said nothing about any new Corvette to date.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:06 AM   #138  
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Sure, they showed them "a" mid engine Corvette. This really doesn't mean anything more than they are most likely going to produce a mid engine Corvette. However, there may also be a new generation FE Corvette to follow shortly behind.

Let's not forget that GM has officially said nothing about any new Corvette to date.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:40 AM   #139  
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I think it is entirely possible for GM to build two different models on one line in Bowling Green - they are already doing it for other cars in other GM plants. Also Kai Spande pointed out at that Bash that the ZR1 is completely unique from the windshield forward, and it is being successfully built on the same line as base model Stingray's today without (much) drama.

I think it is also entirely possible that Corvette will split into two models in 2019, a FE Stingray, and an ME Zora. There could also very well be a FE Stingray replacement coming in 2022, depending on market uptake of the C7 and C8 in 2020 and 2021. For GM to try this is not really out of character, because, in fact, the Corvette is THE HIGHEST MARGIN vehicle it produces today, and has been for many, many years. Ever see TV commercials for it ? No, because it sells itself - as long as GM keeps it interesting and doesn't price it too high.

For sake of clarity, maybe we need to add a letter and call the ME a C8M, and the follow-on to the FE Stingray a C9F. There - fixed it for everybody !!

Cheers, Binger
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:58 AM   #140  
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I think it is entirely possible for GM to build two different models on one line in Bowling Green - they are already doing it for other cars in other GM plants. Also Kai Spande pointed out at that Bash that the ZR1 is completely unique from the windshield forward, and it is being successfully built on the same line as base model Stingray's today without (much) drama.

I think it is also entirely possible that Corvette will split into two models in 2019, a FE Stingray, and an ME Zora. There could also very well be a FE Stingray replacement coming in 2022, depending on market uptake of the C7 and C8 in 2020 and 2021. For GM to try this is not really out of character, because, in fact, the Corvette is THE HIGHEST MARGIN vehicle it produces today, and has been for many, many years. Ever see TV commercials for it ? No, because it sells itself - as long as GM keeps it interesting and doesn't price it too high.

For sake of clarity, maybe we need to add a letter and call the ME a C8M, and the follow-on to the FE Stingray a C9F. There - fixed it for everybody !!

Cheers, Binger
I feel like the mid engine is going to be something seperate. However, even if it is the C8, GM is not going to price it out of the current demographic. They know full well that they are not going to get the Ferrari crowd to sell off their cars and jump to the bowtie.
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