sunsalem

Yeah, come to think of it, you're right about that.
We really haven't had any real information to sink our teeth into lately.
Gotta admire the secrecy bubble around the C8....

Chemdawg99

A mid-engine car, done right, would be very expensive to build, and thus would come with an equally expensive price tag. The comparison of a proposed/rumored mid-engine Vette to the Ford GT is an appropriate one.

A domestic automaker building a mid-engine, high-performance sports car.

If GM builds such a car, it would have to be a one-off, limited production offering. It's the only way to make the car profitable.

Chemdawg99

I agree. However, you must not have ever read "All Corvettes Are Red". The bean counters at GM almost killed the marque when the C5 was being designed. No way the C8 becomes strictly a mid-engine car. If a mid-engine Vette is built at all.

Bill Dearborn

Why do you assume a mid engine car is any more expensive to build than a front or rear engine car? They all have pretty much the same components and it really doesn't make any difference where the engine is located using the current production process. They build a body while at the same time they build the chassis with an engine and marry the two together by bringing the chassis up under the body. It only takes a couple of minutes for the workers to walk under the car and hit a few bolts with air powered tools. That is about as simple as it gets. There is very little difference between assembly times for cars/trucks no matter what brand or kind. The difference in price comes from what they can charge you. They all lose money on econo cars and make tons of money on trucks although the actual build costs are pretty much the same outside of how much sheet metal is used.

The way to make the car profitable is to build it quickly with high quality build and assembly processes that eliminate chances for human error and then build a lot of them at a reasonable cost.

Bill

Chemdawg99

Bill, I respect your acumen on all things automotive tech, so please don't take my response to you as anything meant to be disrespectful. However, the bolded part of your post is an overly optimistic, overly simplistic point of view. IOW, the bolded is easier said than done.

I posted this article earlier in this thread and I think the author makes a valid point, if for no other reason than it being realistic (as opposed to optimistic):

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ined-corvette/

As the author of that piece further opines, the Corvette of today and yesterday is affordable because its easy and affordable to maintain and service. A mid-engine car is not-so-easy and not so affordable to maintain. Just Google how much it cost to service a Lamborghini or a Ferrari. We haven't even touched the surface on the utility that would be lost on a mid-engine Corvette vs. what we have today in the C7, C6, C5, etc.

As the author also opines, I'd love to be proven wrong. An affordable mid-engine Corvette would certainly be appealing given the advantages of mid-engine designs in terms of performance and handling. However, very few automakers, especially domestic automakers, build affordable mid-engine cars, if for no other reason than the general public tends not to buy such a car because of the loss of utility that comes with a mid-engine design. That fact alone would drive the price of a mid-engine Corvette through the roof.

I'm sure you disagree, but I'm looking at this from a business (bean counter) perspective. It's the very thing that's kills the mid-engine Corvette talk every time it comes up, even when they've come close to actually producing them.

KrisColoradoLV

Lamborghini and Ferrari charge more because they can. Not because they have to. Most of those customers don't mind either. It makes them feel better to spend more. They love telling people that their Murcielago costs $2,000 for an oil change. It doesn't cost that much.


Some wealthy people actually like spending more. It makes them feel like they are getting more. They are getting more, but not that much more. It's why some women spend $5,000 or more on a purse. That's actually why they buy it, because it's expensive. If it wasn't that expensive, they wouldn't buy it. It's funny. But I'm glad there are so many wealthy people in this world so we can experience the nicest things.


Let's hope we add a mid-engine Corvette to that list of the nicest things. It can be built, sold, and maintained at a more reasonable cost than the Italian exotics. But maybe the top of the line mid-engine Corvette should be more expensive. The owners would be proud to spend so much.


One thing's for sure. You've got to be able to see the top of the engine from the outside. Even with the rear deck closed. Either exposed or under glass.

Chemdawg99

Not going to argue your perspective because there is a lot of truth in it. However, the premium that people are willing to pay and pay to maintain an exotic like the Lamborghini or a Ferrari isn't the only thing driving the cost to build it or the cost to maintain it. Mid-engine cars are expensive to maintain because they are not easy to work on. That $2000 Ferrari oil change is more than likely going to pay for the cost of the labor.

I've no problem with GM building a mid-engine Vette as a part of the stable. If they could build it and sell it at an affordable price, I'd even buy one. I'm just being realistic about the cost of building a mid-engine sports car that's worth buying and isn't a niche vehicle like an MR2 or the Fiero where compromises had to be made to keep the costs in line. It isn't going to be cheap to build and buy a mid-engine Vette, and if you think a mid-engine Vette will have the utility of the current Vette, you'd be sadly mistaken. The utility is what sets the Corvette apart from other sports cars.

The reality is that mid-engine cars cost more to develop and are not practical like current Corvettes are. It would take a "cost be dammed" attitude by GM to build a mid-engine Vette the right way, meaning as world-class performer to steal the Euro super car market. It's not like GM hasn't been down this road before and chose not to pull the trigger. The Ford GT is a $400,000 car for all the reasons I keep harping on.

sunsalem

You are mistaken.

The Ford GT's price is due to several factors:
1) DEMAND
2) Limited production
3) The incredible price of used GTs built a dozen years ago.
4) It's a true street legal race car with all of the exotic materials you would expect of one.
5) It's hand-built by a non-Ford constructor (Multi-matic).

Bill Dearborn

Number 5 is critical. Being hand built they reduce tooling costs and can get into production quicker but give up speed of production and can get lower quality. Each time a human has to make a decision or do something is a chance for an error. Reducing errors increases quality.

Bill

firstgear

Chief Engineers approval only means that all engineering groups are in agreement that the design is set. They don't have final say so for funding required to go into production. That comes from the CEO.......

TGO

I stopped reading at " I swear 1500hp." The only thing missing from that article was a "bruh" here and there.

Honestly...this is the same nonsense that's been going around for years. Doesn't it get old?

sunsalem

Don't say that around the Viper aficionados...you'll have a fight on your hands.

Chemdawg99

No. I'm not mistaken.

1) The Ford GT is a one-off niche vehicle that ONLY someone in the 1% can afford. The demand is among THAT market, not the market that the typical Corvette or even Porsche owner belongs to.
2) The Ford GT is limited production because the market for a mid-engine sports car of its caliber is limited. It was built with exclusivity in mind, not volume.
3) A mid-engine Corvette will certainly not be priced like a used car. We are talking being able to buy one new. A mid-engine Corvette will be very expensive to build and very expensive to buy, because...
4) It would HAVE to be a street legal race car with all of the exotic materials to be worthy of the marque of "Corvette". That will drive the price up. WAY up.
5) Bill addressed your last point far better than I could have.

As I said, if GM can build an affordable, high-quality mid-engine Corvette, I'd be amongst the first to buy one. I'd like to see it happen.

However, I don't think a C8 mid-engine should be the ONLY Corvette offering in whatever model year this car happens to get built. It should be very much like the Z06 and the C6 ZR-1. An variant within the stable that represents the "lead horse". It should not supplant the Corvette as it has always been.

THAT would a huge mistake on GM's part.

BaylorCorvette

100% agree. I owned a 5th gen Camaro before my C7. The new Camaro's and Corvette's have the same engines in the them and many other components. Yet there really is a Corvette tax on similar parts.

Also, the Porsche Panamera is front engine and I guarantee the maintenance on it is substantially more than the C7. It has less to do with engine placement and more to do with the brand.

1KULC7

I believe the Corvette line will stay the same, but the mid-engine will be added on as RPO..... Like the Z06 vs the GS, and Stingray models.

Mid-engine cars are not difficult once the basic engineering issues are resolved on the frame, transmission transverses, and suspension. FYI, many production models such as the X/19, 914, MR2 and few others have been mass produced. The biggest problem is when you get to the high horse power and stress on frame, and suspension, but with today's new materials I think a lot of this is solved, it will be pricey, I predict the start price for the mid-engine Zora Corvette will be $100K, then go up. I also predict a more powerful mid-engine will follow after a year or so of the release of the mid-engine.... just a matter of time when they add the Z0(whatever) option to the mid-engine. Just my thoughts, not based on anything I heard through a brother in law who has a friend that works as office boy for the president of GM....you know what I mean, just observations on who this works.

DrDyno

Hi All,

I originally started this thread in the C7 Forum, as it was the first C8 ME article of it's kind to appear legitimate. Checking in the C8 forum before posting, it seemed to me that MacCaulkin Chevrolet would not have posted it if they didn't have some inside knowledge.

It was not my intention to start arguments about the veracity of an ME Corvette or ME in general. Apologies. However, that being said, I would like to point out that since the introduction of the (Ford imported) deTomaso Mangusta of the mid seventies, ME designs for the masses have not been well received. Even Ferrari has seen FE designs as some of their most successful cars (the 365 GTB4 Daytona, the 599, the California, the current F12 and their most powerful front engined car ever, the 812).

Having driven many ME Ferraris, I can tell you that my C7 feels every bit their equal in balance, ride quality and handling. I personally see no reason for an ME Corvette. The FE C7R has been beating ME Ferraris at LeManns and in the Rolex series for years.

Can't imagine why GM feels the need for an ME Corvette. A high priced ME Cadillac makes more sense to me, following the XLR-V.

Just my 2-cents. Can't imagine why this thread is even still alive!

sunsalem

Very well done, but your points don't address mine.
I was referring to the GT's pricing, not a possible ME Corvette price.
Two very different product marketing strategies involved.

mountainears

You assuming they are two very different product marketing strategies. That may not be the case.

No one knows for certain (at least in a public forum) if the ME is going to be a unique, exclusive type of vehicle to accompany the Corvette / Chevy brand or if it will attempt to do something different than that and become more mainstream.

Corvette Forum Editor

our front page take...
https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...rvette-rumors/

Chemdawg99

My points address yours perfectly.

The Ford GT's pricing, while not a direct comparison, is a comparable metric. The Ford GT is built by a domestic automaker (check) and is a mid-engine sports car (check). Ford marketed the GT the way it did because that is what their bean counters determined to be the best way to make a profit on the vehicle.

You have no idea what marketing strategy GM will take with a mid-engine Corvette. Ford took the marketing strategy it did with the GT because of the costs to produce it. A mid-engine Corvette will be no less costly.

I sincerely hope that it won't be, but I'm not optimistic about that.

I renew my concern should a mid-engine Corvette be considered a replacement for the entire line of Corvettes.