Should Corvette go the route of Mustang - Hybrid?
08-03-2017, 04:49 PM
#41
Team Owner
08-04-2017, 11:55 AM
#42
Race Director
Sadly it seems everybody is getting on the hybrid or full electric band wagon.
Audi, Porsche, Jaguar all left LeMans to race in Formula E
In 20 years it may not even be possible to buy a car w an internal combustion engine
Those will be sad days, at least I'll probably be too old to care by then
Audi, Porsche, Jaguar all left LeMans to race in Formula E
In 20 years it may not even be possible to buy a car w an internal combustion engine
Those will be sad days, at least I'll probably be too old to care by then
08-04-2017, 01:33 PM
#43
We have no choice...we have to stop polluting our place of birth or go the way of the dinos.
We humans can no longer **** in our own nest and just move on to the next valley.
There is only so much living space and only one planet.
We humans can no longer **** in our own nest and just move on to the next valley.
There is only so much living space and only one planet.
08-04-2017, 02:33 PM
#44
Race Director
Hybrids may actually caus more pollution than ICE cars cus of the toxic batteries & disposal.
08-10-2017, 02:18 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
Hybrids don't stop pollution. Modern car exhaust is cleaner than the air in most cities. Hybrids only relocate this minimal pollution from the tail pipe to the smoke stack of whatever powers that city such as coal, hydro, gepothermal, nuke etc.
Hybrids may actually caus more pollution than ICE cars cus of the toxic batteries & disposal.
Hybrids may actually caus more pollution than ICE cars cus of the toxic batteries & disposal.
Last edited by msm859; 08-10-2017 at 02:18 AM.
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phantasms (08-12-2017)
08-10-2017, 10:01 AM
#46
Team Owner
So you would start your car in your garage with the doors closed and feel safe with your clean air exhaust? With an electric car the answer would be yes. My house is powered by solar panels - no smoke stacks. By 2025 no electricity in California will come from coal. You are correct that it matters how the electricity is being produced, but that also makes the opportunity for an electric car to become cleaner with time.
Last edited by JoesC5; 08-10-2017 at 10:03 AM.
08-12-2017, 11:01 PM
#47
Leeds.io
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
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Best,
Gene
To the OPs question, if GM ever wants me to buy another Corvette they better make it at least a hybrid if not full electric. I don't buy Laserdiscs anymore.
08-13-2017, 01:23 AM
#48
If you're looking for a Corvette Hybrid, I suggest you watch what Cadillac does...
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phantasms (08-13-2017)
08-13-2017, 09:25 AM
#49
Leeds.io
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If I have to procharge my Z or drive an electric Mini while waiting I'm happy to. 
All the best,
Gene
08-13-2017, 11:47 AM
#50
Don't underestimate the Cadillac brand...they make fine vehicles IMO.
I have had 3 in the last 15 years: Escalade, XLR, CTS-V Coupe.
Loved 'em all.
Honestly, I wish I still had the last 2.
I have had 3 in the last 15 years: Escalade, XLR, CTS-V Coupe.
Loved 'em all.
Honestly, I wish I still had the last 2.
08-13-2017, 08:14 PM
#51
Leeds.io
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08-14-2017, 12:35 AM
#52
Well, different strokes for different folks and all.
I think modern Cadillac styling is very distinctive (a good thing when distinguishing between brands) and appealing.
Again, different strokes...
I think modern Cadillac styling is very distinctive (a good thing when distinguishing between brands) and appealing.
Again, different strokes...
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phantasms (08-14-2017)
08-14-2017, 11:29 AM
#53
Advanced
Thread Starter
Not that I'm stressing, because I don't plan on waiting for an electric, but how does this factor in?
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a6816786.html
"Ecars can contain circuits running at more than three times the 230 volts found in the mains supply, posing a real risk of electrocution and fire unless properly handled."
If I just bought a relatively expensive jack system and then found out working under the car is pointless because i MIGHT get deadly shocked, I'd be... I'd be so mad...
Fancy said system: https://www.quickjack.com/
Cruddy wheel changey guys I'm stuck with?
https://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ck-stands.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a6816786.html
"Ecars can contain circuits running at more than three times the 230 volts found in the mains supply, posing a real risk of electrocution and fire unless properly handled."
If I just bought a relatively expensive jack system and then found out working under the car is pointless because i MIGHT get deadly shocked, I'd be... I'd be so mad...
Fancy said system: https://www.quickjack.com/
Cruddy wheel changey guys I'm stuck with?
https://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ck-stands.html
Last edited by Drive_Sell_Win; 08-14-2017 at 11:29 AM.
08-15-2017, 01:03 AM
#54
IMO my biggest thing about the hybrid/electric is that there is currently no way to modify them and I much enjoy modifying my cars. I know the aftermarket will eventually catch up offering upgrades to batteries, motors, inverters, control units, gearboxes, cooling, etc.... in addition to all of the current non ICE related car mods. I just don't want any electrified cars until the mods become available, which is going to be awhile. If I have to have a hybrid I want it to be a parallel power boosting mild hybrid like the laferrari and p1. A small light weight system that adds 100-150hp. That's another thing, I really don't want the weight penalty that comes with electric. I know the p1 is pretty light but that has carbon everything to achieve that and there is no way any car under $200k is going to have that much carbon anytime soon so a hybrid corvette is going to be like 37-3800lbs. That's too heavy for me.
What a parallel mild hybrid would allow me to do is upgrade the ICE like I do now and leave the electric system alone as just a permanent boost to what every I can get out of the ICE as long as manufactures make it so a boost in ICE power doesn't throw off the electric motor. I also want them to keep the v8 if they go hybrid, like the p1, 918 and laferrari (v12) have, in order to maintain the modability. None of this v6 with electric crap.
But over all I want electrification to stay out of the corvette as long as possible but I do recognize that it will eventually happen.
What a parallel mild hybrid would allow me to do is upgrade the ICE like I do now and leave the electric system alone as just a permanent boost to what every I can get out of the ICE as long as manufactures make it so a boost in ICE power doesn't throw off the electric motor. I also want them to keep the v8 if they go hybrid, like the p1, 918 and laferrari (v12) have, in order to maintain the modability. None of this v6 with electric crap.
But over all I want electrification to stay out of the corvette as long as possible but I do recognize that it will eventually happen.
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Drive_Sell_Win (08-15-2017)
08-23-2017, 03:43 PM
#55
Melting Slicks
Electric car issues (some have been mentioned, but I will bring this all together in no particular order):
1) Vroom--no cool natural gas-engine sound except ersatz sound piped in through your stereo.
2) Change those plugs?--extremely complicated maintenance when they break--probably dealer-only service at high cost since most independent shops will not be able to work on them or could afford the EEs and complicated, expensive manuals to understand them. Also. I suspect they will be throw-aways if you have even a minor wreck.
3) Wicked pollution--just moves pollution from tailpipe to smokestack. Since the US has enough coal and natural gas to last for about the next 600 years, converting to nuclear (which has its own problems) or solar (which is expensive) has issues. Disposing of rare earth metals needed for batteries will be our downfall--nasty, nasty stuff.
4) Chinese laundry--since China is the world's major source of rare earth metals, going to batts will make them even richer and more powerful and further wrack our trade deficit.
5) Frack me--since we have developed fracking, the US is the world's largest producer of oil and since everyone else is going electric, gasoline will just get cheaper and cheaper as demand drops--just in time for us to quit using it.
6) Infrastructure--we do not have electric sources to recharge our electric cars. It will cost a fortune to produce and install all of the plug-in devices needed to feed our electric cars and replace gas stations.
7) Time--it takes 3 minutes to fill up a gas tank and be on your way. It takes about 25-30 minutes to fully recharge a typical electric car and be on your way. I do not want to pay for the Tesla three minute full battery change....
8) Upgrades--I doubt you will be hot-rodding your electric car with cool software without voiding your warranty. Remember, changing your electric car's software goes to the very heart of how it runs and there is no way the manufacturer will let you play with that. Hot-rodding and mods will be a thing of the past.
9) Spyware--although this exists in our current cars, you can rest assured in the new world of electrics the manuf will collect data on you by the bucketload--where you drive, how you drive, where you shop, ad infinitum, and you will not be able to fix it by removing the air bag box--it will be embedded through the cars electronics. Didn't Orwell write about this? Of course, with the onslaught of self-driving cars (which is another serious point of contention in and of itself), the govt and big corporate entities will know where we are going before we get there....
10) Weight--batts and elec cars are heavy; tires, brakes, moving parts will wear out quickly and if not, they will have to be built from unobtanium that will cost a lot of money.
I suggest we get Livermore and White Sands to make us the best elec cars in the world and then build them and sell them to all foreign countries until we control the world; we can keep driving gasoline powered cars here, since gas keeps getting cheaper and bank everyone's money.
Frankly, this is testament to the adage that just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do something. I can feel our lost freedom screaming as it gets dragged away, kicking....
Also, the electric car thing has been engineered by the NWO. Electric cars are not competitve in the marketplace but for tax subsidy. It is being rammed down our collective throats....
All of this said, the die has been cast. Several Euro nations have said they will be all electric in a very few years and the USA's ongoing CAFE standard creep will necessitate many of them. Oh, boy!
1) Vroom--no cool natural gas-engine sound except ersatz sound piped in through your stereo.
2) Change those plugs?--extremely complicated maintenance when they break--probably dealer-only service at high cost since most independent shops will not be able to work on them or could afford the EEs and complicated, expensive manuals to understand them. Also. I suspect they will be throw-aways if you have even a minor wreck.
3) Wicked pollution--just moves pollution from tailpipe to smokestack. Since the US has enough coal and natural gas to last for about the next 600 years, converting to nuclear (which has its own problems) or solar (which is expensive) has issues. Disposing of rare earth metals needed for batteries will be our downfall--nasty, nasty stuff.
4) Chinese laundry--since China is the world's major source of rare earth metals, going to batts will make them even richer and more powerful and further wrack our trade deficit.
5) Frack me--since we have developed fracking, the US is the world's largest producer of oil and since everyone else is going electric, gasoline will just get cheaper and cheaper as demand drops--just in time for us to quit using it.
6) Infrastructure--we do not have electric sources to recharge our electric cars. It will cost a fortune to produce and install all of the plug-in devices needed to feed our electric cars and replace gas stations.
7) Time--it takes 3 minutes to fill up a gas tank and be on your way. It takes about 25-30 minutes to fully recharge a typical electric car and be on your way. I do not want to pay for the Tesla three minute full battery change....
8) Upgrades--I doubt you will be hot-rodding your electric car with cool software without voiding your warranty. Remember, changing your electric car's software goes to the very heart of how it runs and there is no way the manufacturer will let you play with that. Hot-rodding and mods will be a thing of the past.
9) Spyware--although this exists in our current cars, you can rest assured in the new world of electrics the manuf will collect data on you by the bucketload--where you drive, how you drive, where you shop, ad infinitum, and you will not be able to fix it by removing the air bag box--it will be embedded through the cars electronics. Didn't Orwell write about this? Of course, with the onslaught of self-driving cars (which is another serious point of contention in and of itself), the govt and big corporate entities will know where we are going before we get there....
10) Weight--batts and elec cars are heavy; tires, brakes, moving parts will wear out quickly and if not, they will have to be built from unobtanium that will cost a lot of money.
I suggest we get Livermore and White Sands to make us the best elec cars in the world and then build them and sell them to all foreign countries until we control the world; we can keep driving gasoline powered cars here, since gas keeps getting cheaper and bank everyone's money.
Frankly, this is testament to the adage that just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do something. I can feel our lost freedom screaming as it gets dragged away, kicking....
Also, the electric car thing has been engineered by the NWO. Electric cars are not competitve in the marketplace but for tax subsidy. It is being rammed down our collective throats....
All of this said, the die has been cast. Several Euro nations have said they will be all electric in a very few years and the USA's ongoing CAFE standard creep will necessitate many of them. Oh, boy!
Last edited by quick04Z06; 08-23-2017 at 04:24 PM.
08-24-2017, 12:33 PM
#56
Electric car issues (some have been mentioned, but I will bring this all together in no particular order):
1) Vroom--no cool natural gas-engine sound except ersatz sound piped in through your stereo.
2) Change those plugs?--extremely complicated maintenance when they break--probably dealer-only service at high cost since most independent shops will not be able to work on them or could afford the EEs and complicated, expensive manuals to understand them. Also. I suspect they will be throw-aways if you have even a minor wreck.
3) Wicked pollution--just moves pollution from tailpipe to smokestack. Since the US has enough coal and natural gas to last for about the next 600 years, converting to nuclear (which has its own problems) or solar (which is expensive) has issues. Disposing of rare earth metals needed for batteries will be our downfall--nasty, nasty stuff.
4) Chinese laundry--since China is the world's major source of rare earth metals, going to batts will make them even richer and more powerful and further wrack our trade deficit.
5) Frack me--since we have developed fracking, the US is the world's largest producer of oil and since everyone else is going electric, gasoline will just get cheaper and cheaper as demand drops--just in time for us to quit using it.
6) Infrastructure--we do not have electric sources to recharge our electric cars. It will cost a fortune to produce and install all of the plug-in devices needed to feed our electric cars and replace gas stations.
7) Time--it takes 3 minutes to fill up a gas tank and be on your way. It takes about 25-30 minutes to fully recharge a typical electric car and be on your way. I do not want to pay for the Tesla three minute full battery change....
8) Upgrades--I doubt you will be hot-rodding your electric car with cool software without voiding your warranty. Remember, changing your electric car's software goes to the very heart of how it runs and there is no way the manufacturer will let you play with that. Hot-rodding and mods will be a thing of the past.
9) Spyware--although this exists in our current cars, you can rest assured in the new world of electrics the manuf will collect data on you by the bucketload--where you drive, how you drive, where you shop, ad infinitum, and you will not be able to fix it by removing the air bag box--it will be embedded through the cars electronics. Didn't Orwell write about this? Of course, with the onslaught of self-driving cars (which is another serious point of contention in and of itself), the govt and big corporate entities will know where we are going before we get there....
10) Weight--batts and elec cars are heavy; tires, brakes, moving parts will wear out quickly and if not, they will have to be built from unobtanium that will cost a lot of money.
I suggest we get Livermore and White Sands to make us the best elec cars in the world and then build them and sell them to all foreign countries until we control the world; we can keep driving gasoline powered cars here, since gas keeps getting cheaper and bank everyone's money.
Frankly, this is testament to the adage that just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do something. I can feel our lost freedom screaming as it gets dragged away, kicking....
Also, the electric car thing has been engineered by the NWO. Electric cars are not competitve in the marketplace but for tax subsidy. It is being rammed down our collective throats....
All of this said, the die has been cast. Several Euro nations have said they will be all electric in a very few years and the USA's ongoing CAFE standard creep will necessitate many of them. Oh, boy!
1) Vroom--no cool natural gas-engine sound except ersatz sound piped in through your stereo.
2) Change those plugs?--extremely complicated maintenance when they break--probably dealer-only service at high cost since most independent shops will not be able to work on them or could afford the EEs and complicated, expensive manuals to understand them. Also. I suspect they will be throw-aways if you have even a minor wreck.
3) Wicked pollution--just moves pollution from tailpipe to smokestack. Since the US has enough coal and natural gas to last for about the next 600 years, converting to nuclear (which has its own problems) or solar (which is expensive) has issues. Disposing of rare earth metals needed for batteries will be our downfall--nasty, nasty stuff.
4) Chinese laundry--since China is the world's major source of rare earth metals, going to batts will make them even richer and more powerful and further wrack our trade deficit.
5) Frack me--since we have developed fracking, the US is the world's largest producer of oil and since everyone else is going electric, gasoline will just get cheaper and cheaper as demand drops--just in time for us to quit using it.
6) Infrastructure--we do not have electric sources to recharge our electric cars. It will cost a fortune to produce and install all of the plug-in devices needed to feed our electric cars and replace gas stations.
7) Time--it takes 3 minutes to fill up a gas tank and be on your way. It takes about 25-30 minutes to fully recharge a typical electric car and be on your way. I do not want to pay for the Tesla three minute full battery change....
8) Upgrades--I doubt you will be hot-rodding your electric car with cool software without voiding your warranty. Remember, changing your electric car's software goes to the very heart of how it runs and there is no way the manufacturer will let you play with that. Hot-rodding and mods will be a thing of the past.
9) Spyware--although this exists in our current cars, you can rest assured in the new world of electrics the manuf will collect data on you by the bucketload--where you drive, how you drive, where you shop, ad infinitum, and you will not be able to fix it by removing the air bag box--it will be embedded through the cars electronics. Didn't Orwell write about this? Of course, with the onslaught of self-driving cars (which is another serious point of contention in and of itself), the govt and big corporate entities will know where we are going before we get there....
10) Weight--batts and elec cars are heavy; tires, brakes, moving parts will wear out quickly and if not, they will have to be built from unobtanium that will cost a lot of money.
I suggest we get Livermore and White Sands to make us the best elec cars in the world and then build them and sell them to all foreign countries until we control the world; we can keep driving gasoline powered cars here, since gas keeps getting cheaper and bank everyone's money.
Frankly, this is testament to the adage that just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do something. I can feel our lost freedom screaming as it gets dragged away, kicking....
Also, the electric car thing has been engineered by the NWO. Electric cars are not competitve in the marketplace but for tax subsidy. It is being rammed down our collective throats....
All of this said, the die has been cast. Several Euro nations have said they will be all electric in a very few years and the USA's ongoing CAFE standard creep will necessitate many of them. Oh, boy!
08-30-2017, 05:05 PM
#57
Melting Slicks
I could talk about your entire post as I have things to say about every point you made but I'm just going to address #8. This is what everyone said when the gas car first started getting popular. Yes manufacturers have the right to void your warranty but they do that now with gas cars anyway. It's not a matter of manufacturers "letting you" as when you buy it, it is your property. They(lol) might try to make it difficult to crack the software, which will make them quite unpopular among car lovers, but that will be quickly broken by the aftermarket. It will take several years but the aftermarket will come out with a large amount of drivetrain upgrades for electric cars. The only thing they might do in the future is make it so when you modify your car it has to be tested and re-certified to make sure that it is still safe to drive much like current emissions testing.
GM retains ownership of its software now. This will just grow in a car in which everything about it runs from the software down to the door locks.
Last edited by quick04Z06; 08-30-2017 at 05:15 PM.
08-31-2017, 10:40 AM
#58
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...omers_buy.html
GM retains ownership of its software now. This will just grow in a car in which everything about it runs from the software down to the door locks.
GM retains ownership of its software now. This will just grow in a car in which everything about it runs from the software down to the door locks.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/28/its-ok-to-hack-your-own-car-us-copyright-authorities-rule
Even if they say you can't modify things like infotainment systems and safety systems, an aftermarket manufacturer can make an external module that intercepts the stock software and alters it before it gets to the motors. I'm just specificity talkig about performance mods. The throttle will be percentage based so you can put a more powerful motor with out altering anything.
Last edited by theboom; 08-31-2017 at 10:54 AM.
09-01-2017, 11:47 AM
#59
Leeds.io
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
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This is a super/hypercar vs not even a sports car but a family sedan that seats 7. The future is good guys no reason to fight it. It's like whale blubber vs electricity FFS. Some of the "info" in this thread is scary and it's eye opening to see these false facts because it explains how anyone could be against what's coming. Shame those facts simply aren't true. The only sensical thing here is a modding concern which I totally agree with. However I'm sure with some time we'll figure out how to put more powerful motors in the wheels and wire up supercaps instead of nitrous.
Best,
Gene
PS and before the "oh but you never see those on the road" guys come into the thread. How much have we discussed that abomination called the Demon? There will be WAY more P100DLs on the road than Demons. There will be one in my garage next week.
Last edited by phantasms; 09-01-2017 at 11:50 AM.
09-21-2017, 02:40 PM
#60
Leeds.io
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
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Yet another one for all the haters.
We've got a P100DL in the family now and there's no way in hell any variation of a C8 is touching it unless they go electric themselves.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/world...t-drag-race_7/
Best,
Gene
We've got a P100DL in the family now and there's no way in hell any variation of a C8 is touching it unless they go electric themselves.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/world...t-drag-race_7/
Best,
Gene