cv67

Seems the big sore spots of these cars are electronics being too complicated/integrated, paint has been addressed of course trans

why cant these systems be simpler? Do power windows really need to communicate with everything else, HVAC, etc

Id think the consumer knowing these were simpler to figure out would increase the audience thats all (not to mention cost of maintenance & repair)

Does anyone really need more than 6 or 7 gears? (dont phase out the manual!)

Most new cars are throwaway items due to these issues may less is more.

Flame away guys

Dutch08

Yep you're correct. In the future you'll say, "Car go to XXX" and it will drive there, the traffic lights will optimize for the trip, and you'll automatically pay road use taxes, electricity tax, state border tax, pollution tax, etc, etc,etc. You won't do anything, car will play soft music while you sleep.

The only hope will be that some car company will splinter off a true sports car for drivers, that is more for the enjoyment of driving. Of course we will be banned from most streets.

We are seeing the start of the trend with all the electronic assist and complexity.

KnightDriveTV

Trying to not phase out the manual is why you end up with 7 gears. Many choices made on these systems aren't the result of what engineers WANT to do, it's what regulation and reducing costs require. The 7th gear was solely for mpg, as is the cyl deactivation, as is the skip shift feature and the drive by wire throttle dampening, etc. They are trying to give you a performance product that satisfies the regulatory requirements of multiple nations.

Modern construction is about modularity and using the same systems, fuse box, controller, etc, across as many models as possible. Having these systems communicate through a central source allow for troubleshooting, etc., versus each model of car having to electronically function in a completely bespoke manner.

There is a level of complexity that comes with the lengths you see German cars rising to, versus GM or Ford. There are some necessities you can't avoid, but I think the American companies are doing the best they can to avoid it.

Racer86

I'm guilty of thinking that all this electronic stuff is way cool. But , I think my next car will be a kit car, built without all the things only a dealer can service with software I can't get.

vetteship

Well said, less is more approach is always a winner, and I'm all for the K.I.I.S. principle (for the non engineers: that's Keep It Simple Stupid !)

Rkreigh

parts left out don't break or weigh much

make the car a little smaller on the outside, and just as big inside

make the seats simple, comfortable, and light

don't need no stiiiinnnnkin power windows, make mine phone glass please with a super lightweight and elegant crank system (bet u never saw that one coming)

overall, add lightness the corvette can do more with less

cv67

Theres a term for electronics thats basically the size of a cable that contains what a large harness does internally
Anyone know what Im talking about? Seems it would be simpler and lighter

RK agree!! Also believe an option that had the good stuff mechanically but sparse inside/light would sell! Windows, Ac stereo at the most
0LT....swipe an EBT card to open your door


x2 on us tall guys....I know GM can do this but....

John B

Lurker? AWD

Bill Dearborn

The electronics actually provide what Customers in general want and in a lot of cases are lower cost ways of doing things than having mechanical parts. I am pretty sure the power window electronics no more to produce than the mechanical window regulators and weigh less as well. People complained about the doors not closing easily on C5s due to the pressure build up inside the car. So they fixed that in the C6s and C7s by indexing the windows. Since a fair number of Customer's want power windows and want the doors to close why would they even think of installing a mechanical window regulator? Just having an unpopular part in inventory requires money to manage the inventory and money to manage the engineering records related to the design along with different procedures for cars coming down the line. They give the Customers what they want, reduce costs and improve quality by doing that. A triple play. There are other features in the car that provide the same type of benefit. Hell it is even better to have the power seat track when on track because you can use the seat belt cinch mode and the power seat track to get the stock 3 point belt tight as hell. A mechanical seat track like they offered on the C4, C5 and C6 passenger side just didn't cut it from helping to get the belts tight as required.

Maybe the C8 will also introduce a 48 Volt electrical system which is one thing manufacturers are studying since it can cut down on wire size thus reducing weight even more.

Bill

Greg00Coupe

I think like Bill says that the keep it simple concept is not what the majority of buyers want. They want the latest whistles and bells even tho they don't use them or know how to use them.

When the C5 came out the uproar was about cupholders!! Cupholders are a priority?

I know its impractical but I'd like to order options ala cart instead of bundles. We're forced to pay for stuff we don't want to get stuff we do. Then I look at the Porsche order book and am overwhelmed!!!

stevebz06

Multiplex, is what comes to my mind, but it's been around for over 40 years in the aircraft industry.

stevebz06

We want at least 22 inch wheels so that when we are due for tires we will have to skip a mortgage payment and we will have to leave the state to find a shop that can mount them (they will also eat up a lot of that extra horsepower so that we don't scare ourselves too much).

GMJim

Those that can afford to replace their Corvette with the latest technological marvel when the warranty expires love the technology but those of us who can't afford a new Corvette every few years are faced with paying for repairs and dealing with garages that don't know what they're doing. In some cases only the dealers have the equipment and knowledge to do the repairs and as we all know you have to bring your bank manager with you or an armored car to pay the bill. Do we need an electrically controlled parking brake? Maybe it was done because of packaging issues but gone are the days when you can fix it with a new cable.

I purchased a brand new Volvo C30 (Wife's car) a few years ago and though I would dress it up with a few accessories. I decided to install a factory fog light kit and asked the price? $135.00 the parts guy says. I bought the kit and went home to install it and about a half hour later (the harness and other parts were already pre installed at the factory) was ready to try them out. What? No worky! I called the parts guy to ask if it were possible I got a bad switch or bulbs and he said he's never had a problem but did you have the computer programmed for the lights??? Ah....... NO. Well bring it in and we'll hook it up to the global system and program those lights. It will only cost $110.00 plus tax. The only advantage to this technology is for dealers to make money.

Another issue I've run into is bearings. Used to be you could run down to the bearing store and buy a replacement alternator or belt tensioner or some other bearing to repair your Corvette or other GM car but GM is getting smarter and are making their assemblies in odd sizes and have the bearing manufacturer make bearings for them in those odd sizes that you guessed it are ONLY available at the dealer for 50 times the cost or not sold separately at all.

Dutch08

He hits the nail on the head. Maybe in 20 years we will have aftermarket substitution parts or work arounds, but now we are in the dealer or its not made anymore territory.

Bill Dearborn

The domestic auto manufacturers used to permit that. They had several models of cars with different trim levels but you could put just about any option into any of those trim models and you didn't have to choose a package to do that. If you wanted power door locks but didn't want power windows then you could order the car that way. If you wanted the biggest engine offered in the cheapest model you could do that. At one time windshield washers and 3 speed wipers, turn signals and mirrors were options that you had to make sure you remembered to order or the car would be delivered without them.

The big problem is that configurability cost a lot of money and when Toyota and other Japanese manufacturers started offering fully loaded cars as the only option the domestic brands started reducing the number of variations permitted which reduced costs considerably.

Bill

NocarbutaVetteforme

That should be KISS.

JoesC5

Incorrect statements.

At speed the windows on the C5 would pull away from the weather-stripping at the top of the glass, creating a high level of wind noise. The window indexing used on the C6(and the C7) allows the door glass to fit INTO the weather-stripping(tongue and groove) to prevent the window from pulling away.

That necessitated the automatic indexing of the window to be added to the C6 and the C7. The C6 and C7's have the trunk pulldown because of the tight cabin, and the doors are hard to close even with the windows indexed down. Both the C6 and the C7 have a separate vent to help with the tapped cabin air, even though the C6 and the C7 have indexing windows.

Common complain on the C6(and the C7) is the hard to close doors(but very little complaint on the C5).

A 48 volt system will cut down on wire size because of lower amperage draw, but it will increase cost in other places(like a more expense battery). They have been talking about 48 volt system for decades, but the reason they have not gone to it, is because amperage draw has been significantly lowered by getting rid of the high amp incandescent lights and replacing them with low amp draw LEDs. Increased cost is the reason why the car manufacturers didn't go with 48 volt systems 20 years ago..

Both a car with manually operated windows and one with power windows have a window regulator. The difference between the two is that the manual operated window has a lightweight hand crank to directly operate the regulator, and the power widows have an electric motor, and a separate push button, with the necessary wiring, to operate the regulator. Convenience it the reason for electric windows as it allows the driver to easily operate any window from his driver's seat, etc.

DickieDoo

what you will see is a one wiring harness fitting just about everything that is produced with the computer module software being the customizing touch. As long as it's a good quality wiring harness, laid out and installed properly, it can last a very long time.

JoesC5

Even longer for the model railroaders.

50th year

Intake, compression, power and exhaust. Just give me some plugs and points and let me tune the car by what it sounds like. Wow am I showing my age or what.