Impact of the ZR1 introduction on the Mid Engine Corvette
09-06-2017, 07:02 PM
#21
Logical scenario.
I take it you have this on some authority...
I take it you have this on some authority...
09-06-2017, 07:19 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by sunsalem
Logical scenario.
I take it you have this on some authority...
I take it you have this on some authority...
The HP figures are conjecture based on what I know about how GM works and the program information. But I'd say something akin to those numbers are in the mix.
I won't say much more about the sources because apparently one of my Jim Mero posts pissed some people off. So I know some things I say get filtered up the chain to people at GM. They supposedly complained to former co-workers of mine. So people can take it how they will.
Last edited by LT1 Z51; 09-06-2017 at 07:24 PM.
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tbrenny33 (09-06-2017)
09-06-2017, 11:16 PM
#23
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17,'22-'23
C2: 1963 - 1967. A five year model run. Bottom line? Chevy will do whatever it thinks will allow them to turn the most profit. This *is* America, after all!
I think the tail light issue is put to rest. The complainers make a lot of noise, but the popularity of the C7 has, at least temporarily, killed round (or round-ish) tail lights, imo.
I think the tail light issue is put to rest. The complainers make a lot of noise, but the popularity of the C7 has, at least temporarily, killed round (or round-ish) tail lights, imo.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-cover-it.html
Last edited by BearZ06; 09-06-2017 at 11:26 PM.
09-06-2017, 11:47 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Bits and pieces I have direct knowledge, they come from mostly supplier sources. But some of the latest stuff comes from a guy I know there. Some things I hear thru a co-worker of mine, he has some of his own sources. Automotive is very incestual, everyone knows people at other OEMs and at Suppliers.
The HP figures are conjecture based on what I know about how GM works and the program information. But I'd say something akin to those numbers are in the mix.
I won't say much more about the sources because apparently one of my Jim Mero posts pissed some people off. So I know some things I say get filtered up the chain to people at GM. They supposedly complained to former co-workers of mine. So people can take it how they will.
The HP figures are conjecture based on what I know about how GM works and the program information. But I'd say something akin to those numbers are in the mix.
I won't say much more about the sources because apparently one of my Jim Mero posts pissed some people off. So I know some things I say get filtered up the chain to people at GM. They supposedly complained to former co-workers of mine. So people can take it how they will.
09-07-2017, 03:08 AM
#25
Bits and pieces I have direct knowledge, they come from mostly supplier sources. But some of the latest stuff comes from a guy I know there. Some things I hear thru a co-worker of mine, he has some of his own sources. Automotive is very incestual, everyone knows people at other OEMs and at Suppliers.
The HP figures are conjecture based on what I know about how GM works and the program information. But I'd say something akin to those numbers are in the mix.
I won't say much more about the sources because apparently one of my Jim Mero posts pissed some people off. So I know some things I say get filtered up the chain to people at GM. They supposedly complained to former co-workers of mine. So people can take it how they will.
The HP figures are conjecture based on what I know about how GM works and the program information. But I'd say something akin to those numbers are in the mix.
I won't say much more about the sources because apparently one of my Jim Mero posts pissed some people off. So I know some things I say get filtered up the chain to people at GM. They supposedly complained to former co-workers of mine. So people can take it how they will.
And I can't argue with your analysis/info...it is pretty much the conclusions I have come to independently.
09-09-2017, 10:14 AM
#26
Race Director
Most certainly they were delays.
Mid-engine was originally a 2017 and there was no ZR1.
The program had issues with the powertrain and transmission, so it was delayed. Then the world turned upside down. Ford announced the GT350, Dodge announced the Hellcat. The program HAD to adjust. GM wanted a Flat Plane Crank and 700 HP now. Before it had been an NA DOHC making 650-675 (not much more than the Z06).
Then while that was just getting going. Ford dropped a bomb, the new GT. All of a sudden Corvette Racing had a problem as well. The ZR1 was created as a short term solution. The Mid-Engine was recast AGAIN. It was around this time the Z/28 Camaro was replaced with the ZR1 1LE as a Z/28 has to have an NA engine and the NA engine for the Mid-Engine now needed to make at least 750 because the ZR1 (an LT4 with a bigger supercharger) was going to push 725+ HP.
However durability issues with the new engines and the transmission on the ME caused those programs to slip another year to work out the bugs. Who knows if the Demon will cause GM to revisit more HP for the ZR1 and ME...
Mid-engine was originally a 2017 and there was no ZR1.
The program had issues with the powertrain and transmission, so it was delayed. Then the world turned upside down. Ford announced the GT350, Dodge announced the Hellcat. The program HAD to adjust. GM wanted a Flat Plane Crank and 700 HP now. Before it had been an NA DOHC making 650-675 (not much more than the Z06).
Then while that was just getting going. Ford dropped a bomb, the new GT. All of a sudden Corvette Racing had a problem as well. The ZR1 was created as a short term solution. The Mid-Engine was recast AGAIN. It was around this time the Z/28 Camaro was replaced with the ZR1 1LE as a Z/28 has to have an NA engine and the NA engine for the Mid-Engine now needed to make at least 750 because the ZR1 (an LT4 with a bigger supercharger) was going to push 725+ HP.
However durability issues with the new engines and the transmission on the ME caused those programs to slip another year to work out the bugs. Who knows if the Demon will cause GM to revisit more HP for the ZR1 and ME...
It's easier for GM to let the car media and US to prognosticate on WHAT the car will be....
09-09-2017, 10:25 AM
#27
I can't think of one Japanese Supercar that has sold well.
When guys think of high performance cars in that price range they think European first.
Rightly or wrongly, that's they way it seems to have gone.
The Corvette is a different story unto itself.
When guys think of high performance cars in that price range they think European first.
Rightly or wrongly, that's they way it seems to have gone.
The Corvette is a different story unto itself.
09-09-2017, 08:12 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by tbrenny33
Do you think the first ME car will be a base model per say with like 550-600 NA hp or more of an all out exotic killer with 750+ TT/FI hp?
09-12-2017, 01:03 PM
#29
Safety Car
I certainly can see why folks think and hope the ME car will be a Hyper Car but that is simply not been GMs history since 53. Each generation has debuted with a good model with lots of changes, but the faster/better/more expensive models have followed later in the generation. Frankly I would expect that to continue. Likely we will see the ME (C8) introduced at a $80k price point in 3 years as a new car with lots of new technology, but the more expensive models with the higher horsepower and higher costs will follow in 2-3 years. I think it is way too much to ask for GM to introduce the C8 at a $150k and 750+ hp level. Doesn't make sense as it is too risky to break in a new design with that much edge of the envelope technology.
09-12-2017, 02:06 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
09-12-2017, 09:09 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
This question needs to be asked the other way around. If you believe a reasonably priced mid engine vette is 2 years away, you'd be a dummy to buy a zr1 next year.
09-13-2017, 10:05 PM
#33
Safety Car
And that is your opinion. An opinion not supported by the previous 7 generation introductions. I am not saying you are wrong, just that your thought that the flagship for the C8 being introduced in the first model year is not likely. Every previous generation has had a base model introduced first. At a price point higher than the previous generations base vehicle price point but not at a price point higher than the most expensive models of the previous generation.
I expect a base C8 will sell for $75-85k base cost. A year or two later a higher performance model will be introduced that will be around $100k. Than the 3rd or 4th year a very high performance limited edition model will be introduced that will be in the $130 range.
Right now we don't know anything, except that GM has had problems with their ZR1 prototypes that have delayed that launch over a year now. Hopefully they are doing better with the C8 but those Z06 and ZR1 problems are precisely why the C8 will not be introduced as a flagship model. Too many new things going on at once cause problems.
I expect a base C8 will sell for $75-85k base cost. A year or two later a higher performance model will be introduced that will be around $100k. Than the 3rd or 4th year a very high performance limited edition model will be introduced that will be in the $130 range.
Right now we don't know anything, except that GM has had problems with their ZR1 prototypes that have delayed that launch over a year now. Hopefully they are doing better with the C8 but those Z06 and ZR1 problems are precisely why the C8 will not be introduced as a flagship model. Too many new things going on at once cause problems.
09-13-2017, 10:24 PM
#34
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And that is your opinion. An opinion not supported by the previous 7 generation introductions. I am not saying you are wrong, just that your thought that the flagship for the C8 being introduced in the first model year is not likely. Every previous generation has had a base model introduced first. At a price point higher than the previous generations base vehicle price point but not at a price point higher than the most expensive models of the previous generation.
I expect a base C8 will sell for $75-85k base cost. A year or two later a higher performance model will be introduced that will be around $100k. Than the 3rd or 4th year a very high performance limited edition model will be introduced that will be in the $130 range.
Right now we don't know anything, except that GM has had problems with their ZR1 prototypes that have delayed that launch over a year now. Hopefully they are doing better with the C8 but those Z06 and ZR1 problems are precisely why the C8 will not be introduced as a flagship model. Too many new things going on at once cause problems.
I expect a base C8 will sell for $75-85k base cost. A year or two later a higher performance model will be introduced that will be around $100k. Than the 3rd or 4th year a very high performance limited edition model will be introduced that will be in the $130 range.
Right now we don't know anything, except that GM has had problems with their ZR1 prototypes that have delayed that launch over a year now. Hopefully they are doing better with the C8 but those Z06 and ZR1 problems are precisely why the C8 will not be introduced as a flagship model. Too many new things going on at once cause problems.
It's NOT. It's a totally different car. The C8 is front engine.
Code for the mid-engine is ZERV, code name for the C8 is Y2XX.
This isn't hard people. If you still think a mid-engine is the regular C8 and the days of front engine Corvette's are done you are smoking some crazy ***** weed.
Last edited by LT1 Z51; 09-13-2017 at 10:25 PM.
09-13-2017, 11:12 PM
#35
Racer
Right now we don't know anything, except that GM has had problems with their ZR1 prototypes that have delayed that launch over a year now. Hopefully they are doing better with the C8 but those Z06 and ZR1 problems are precisely why the C8 will not be introduced as a flagship model. Too many new things going on at once cause problems.
I would imagine that would be a significant engineering challenge for every ME design.
09-13-2017, 11:12 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
09-14-2017, 10:38 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
09-14-2017, 12:37 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by tbrenny33
really?! Ok well your intitled to your opinion. I have a hard time calling something unreasonably priced when it outperforms cars at 2x it's price.
09-14-2017, 02:54 PM
#40
Pro
I like how people assume there is a problem when cars don't come out when they want them to. pfff.
