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Initially it will be priced a little above the base C7 models just as any new model would be even if it was FE. The C7ZR1 will be also be in production at the same time and that may be the higher priced car. Then when sales start to slow down on the C8 out goes the ZR1 and in comes the C8 Z06 and the string starts over again with a GS and another ZR1 following. ME doesn't mean high priced. It doesn't cost any more to build and the parts aren't any more expensive than contemporary cars. They try and keep bread and butter vehicles somewhere less than 19 hours of labor per vehicle. Since Vette production is lower volume they may try to keep assembly hours down to the 21 or 22 hour per vehicle range. If they run 6 cars per hour through the line and have a 10 hour work day with 1300 employees that puts the hours at about 22 per car. Figure at least $250 per hour for labor, overhead, burden, taxes and administrative charges. That gets you to about $5500 for car assembly labor and whatever the parts cost comes to. Probably can bring parts cost in for no more than $10K to $15K per car so total car build cost somewhere around $21K. Then of course you have warranty, design engineering and development costs, manufacturing process/system design and development build costs, corporate charges, marketing, spare parts cost, profit and probably some others I have failed to add in. When you look at total life cycle cost design/development usually takes up about 30% of total costs.
The results will be skewed (IMO) since there is no option for less than $125k.
Personally, I will not pay over $75k out the door. In other words, after 40+ years, Corvette has finally priced me out of their market.
I don't need any more HP than what my 2LT C7 provides---most likely just like 90-95% of the other vette owners. So my only option is to keep my '04 and '15 and look for a nice deal on a used one 3-5 years down the road---maybe.
The results will be skewed (IMO) since there is no option for less than $125k.
Personally, I will not pay over $75k out the door. In other words, after 40+ years, Corvette has finally priced me out of their market.
I don't need any more HP than what my 2LT C7 provides---most likely just like 90-95% of the other vette owners. So my only option is to keep my '04 and '15 and look for a nice deal on a used one 3-5 years down the road---maybe.
I do agree the results maybe skewed but I think if GM is actually planning on ME to replace the FE car then there'll be a base model starting roughly 5-7K more then the existing base stingray. I do think it'll be sold alongside the FE car though as a halo model and leading to a cadillac version
my opinion always loved the corvette for the low price and high performance sport car that can challenge high end sport cars. I prefer to add 2 Examples of ME Vetts.
1 will be less than 125K
2 the second one will be a limited production can beats the high performance jut like Ford GT and the Aston Martins.
Initially it will be priced a little above the base C7 models just as any new model would be even if it was FE. The C7ZR1 will be also be in production at the same time and that may be the higher priced car. Then when sales start to slow down on the C8 out goes the ZR1 and in comes the C8 Z06 and the string starts over again with a GS and another ZR1 following. ME doesn't mean high priced. It doesn't cost any more to build and the parts aren't any more expensive than contemporary cars. They try and keep bread and butter vehicles somewhere less than 19 hours of labor per vehicle. Since Vette production is lower volume they may try to keep assembly hours down to the 21 or 22 hour per vehicle range. If they run 6 cars per hour through the line and have a 10 hour work day with 1300 employees that puts the hours at about 22 per car. Figure at least $250 per hour for labor, overhead, burden, taxes and administrative charges. That gets you to about $5500 for car assembly labor and whatever the parts cost comes to. Probably can bring parts cost in for no more than $10K to $15K per car so total car build cost somewhere around $21K. Then of course you have warranty, design engineering and development costs, manufacturing process/system design and development build costs, corporate charges, marketing, spare parts cost, profit and probably some others I have failed to add in. When you look at total life cycle cost design/development usually takes up about 30% of total costs.
Bill
Great post. If Chevy wants to continue to sell 30K Vettes per year, and if the ME is eventually going to be the only platform, then the pricing has to be within reaching distance of the C7. They will not sell 30K Corvettes with a base price over $80K.
I think they will roll out a high end ME car first to create interest, and then the C8 will eventually be the ME platform with a base price no more than $10K higher than the C7 base price at the time of release.
Initially it will be priced a little above the base C7 models just as any new model would be even if it was FE. The C7ZR1 will be also be in production at the same time and that may be the higher priced car. Then when sales start to slow down on the C8 out goes the ZR1 and in comes the C8 Z06 and the string starts over again with a GS and another ZR1 following. ME doesn't mean high priced. It doesn't cost any more to build and the parts aren't any more expensive than contemporary cars. They try and keep bread and butter vehicles somewhere less than 19 hours of labor per vehicle. Since Vette production is lower volume they may try to keep assembly hours down to the 21 or 22 hour per vehicle range. If they run 6 cars per hour through the line and have a 10 hour work day with 1300 employees that puts the hours at about 22 per car. Figure at least $250 per hour for labor, overhead, burden, taxes and administrative charges. That gets you to about $5500 for car assembly labor and whatever the parts cost comes to. Probably can bring parts cost in for no more than $10K to $15K per car so total car build cost somewhere around $21K. Then of course you have warranty, design engineering and development costs, manufacturing process/system design and development build costs, corporate charges, marketing, spare parts cost, profit and probably some others I have failed to add in. When you look at total life cycle cost design/development usually takes up about 30% of total costs.
Bill
Your numbers are way off thus so are your resulting conclusions.
The line runs at approximately 18.5 cars per hour(not 6) and the normal shift is 8 hours for 5 days or 10 hours for 4 days. There are 839 hourly employees(not 1300) and 165 salaried employees at Bowling Green.
I'll pay around 30K, wonder how long it will take to reach that number on the used car market. Buying new is for suckers or for people that can afford to throw money in the garbage. Thanks for buying new! someones got to do it.
The sticker price on my 2017 Stingray convertible was about $67,000. I want pay more than $75,000 for a Corvette, mid-engine or not. I don't want a car I am afraid to drive!
Do you think the ME will only be sold at the top 100 Corvette dealers in the country? With are the bad stories about service on the C6/C7 at dealerships GM better get their act together for servicing the ME.
How many dealerships can't even do an oil change on a ZO6/Z51 without overfilling it? Now you want those same Pep Boy service techs working on a ME?
Last edited by Corvette ED; 08-22-2017 at 09:29 PM.
I think it'll start with a ME halo car, like 725-750 hp and start around 135-140K. Then the lower models will work there way in over time. Honestly I think GM knows they could loose some faithful but gain many outsiders from porsche, bmw, mercedes and audi.
Since the only competition for a $130-$140k ME Corvette from Porsche is the higher level 911's and From Audi is the R8 (Mercedes & BMW have no ME cars), they better get 100% of those 2,500 911 and 750 R8 buyers - otherwise the sales slide will be monumental.
Since the only competition for a $130-$140k ME Corvette from Porsche is the higher level 911's and From Audi is the R8 (Mercedes & BMW have no ME cars), they better get 100% of those 2,500 911 and 750 R8 buyers - otherwise the sales slide will be monumental.
what would make you come to the conclusion? There not going to stop selling cars at the 60-70k price point whether it's FE or ME. I'm strictly talking about a halo model, and it'll probably sell somewhere around 2500-3000 cars. And I'm very confident many of these naysayers well have a change of heart once they see it and read the reviews.
what would make you come to the conclusion? There not going to stop selling cars at the 60-70k price point whether it's FE or ME. I'm strictly talking about a halo model, and it'll probably sell somewhere around 2500-3000 cars. And I'm very confident many of these naysayers well have a change of heart once they see it and read the reviews.
The latest mid engine car(and not production limited as is the Ford GT) is the Acura NSX for a starting price of $159,000.
For the first 7 months of 2017, they have sold 340 in the US and Canada.
What facts makes you think that a mid engine Corvette will outsell the NSX by five to six times?
The latest mid engine car(and not production limited as is the Ford GT) is the Acura NSX for a starting price of $159,000.
For the first 7 months of 2017, they have sold 340 in the US and Canada.
What facts makes you think that a mid engine Corvette will outsell the NSX by five to six times?
simple, the corvette following is massive. And there's no lack of money. The NSX has a tiny following and no one desires a 6 cylinder engine like the an American V8. The only way it doesn't sell is if it's an awful design and reviews are terrible. I expect a 130-140K HALO ME corvette to have performance that is equal to or greater then the 911 turbos S, 720s, huracan performante, 488 gtb, etc. Ya some faithful like you won't buy it, but guys from Mercedes, BMW, who want an ME car will move over and there's a ton of younger guys who'll be making money and want to stay with an American car, guys moving up from camaros, stangs and mopars, I'm one of those guys. I've chatted with mustang guys who are very successful individuals and they've told me they are very much considering a ME corvette.
simple, the corvette following is massive. And there's no lack of money. The NSX has a tiny following and no one desires a 6 cylinder engine like the an American V8. The only way it doesn't sell is if it's an awful design and reviews are terrible. I expect a 130-140K HALO ME corvette to have performance that is equal to or greater then the 911 turbos S, 720s, huracan performante, 488 gtb, etc. Ya some faithful like you won't buy it, but guys from Mercedes, BMW, who want an ME car will move over and there's a ton of younger guys who'll be making money and want to stay with an American car, guys moving up from camaros, stangs and mopars, I'm one of those guys. I've chatted with mustang guys who are very successful individuals and they've told me they are very much considering a ME corvette.
Don't underestimate the "faithful like me". Many, very many, of us could have bought a mid engine car instead of a Corvette, but we didn't.
Can you explain why Mercedes didn't design the new AMG GT as a mid engine, but retained the front engine design as the car it replaced?
For the first seven months in 2017 , the AMG GT has sold 839 in the US and Canada. Over twice the number of NSX's sold, even with it's "obsolete" front engine layout.
BMW has a mid engine car(i8) that starts at $143,400. I wonder why they have only sold 275 in the first 7 months of 2017 in the US, vs the 839 AMG GT's that Mercedes has sold, or the 32,000 C7's sold in the US and Canada(or the 553 front engine Z4's they sold in the US and Canada during the first 7 moths of 2017)?
Don't count on your speculation(not facts) that everyone is going to go for an expensive mid engine Corvette, just because a friend of yours that owns a Mustang says he will pay 3X the price for a mid engine Corvette. Why doesn't he currently own a $121,000 C7 Z06, that is quicker than his Mustang?
Since the only competition for a $130-$140k ME Corvette from Porsche is the higher level 911's and From Audi is the R8 (Mercedes & BMW have no ME cars), they better get 100% of those 2,500 911 and 750 R8 buyers - otherwise the sales slide will be monumental.
Not sure what you mean by higher level 911's? To most, the "higher level" begins with the GT3, which with typical options ends up in the $160K range.
Originally Posted by JoesC5
The latest mid engine car(and not production limited as is the Ford GT) is the Acura NSX for a starting price of $159,000.
For the first 7 months of 2017, they have sold 340 in the US and Canada.
What facts makes you think that a mid engine Corvette will outsell the NSX by five to six times?
Comparing the NSX to anything at this point isn't relevant. Gen 1 never had anywhere near the following nor production numbers of the vette, and Gen 2 was a disaster well before it ever launched. The car not selling has little to do with price...and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that no one likes it.
At $150K a ME vette will sell very well. At $320K the 720S is sold out. Undoubtedly, GM is smart enough not to abandoned their loyal vette faithful, and will have options for the 'every man.' However, you can bet there will be an upscale, super vette, priced beyond the soon to be announced ZR1...and there are lots of guys chomping at the bit to pay.
I know you post A LOT here, and I often respect what you have to say...out of curiosity, what vette(s) do you currently own?
Don't underestimate the "faithful like me". Many, very many, of us could have bought a mid engine car instead of a Corvette, but we didn't.
Can you explain why Mercedes didn't design the new AMG GT as a mid engine, but retained the front engine design as the car it replaced?
For the first seven months in 2017 , the AMG GT has sold 839 in the US and Canada. Over twice the number of NSX's sold, even with it's "obsolete" front engine layout.
BMW has a mid engine car(i8) that starts at $143,400. I wonder why they have only sold 275 in the first 7 months of 2017 in the US, vs the 839 AMG GT's that Mercedes has sold, or the 32,000 C7's sold in the US and Canada?
Don't count on your speculation(not facts) that everyone is going to go for an expensive mid engine Corvette, just because a friend of yours that owns a Mustang says he will pay 3X the price for a mid engine Corvette. Why doesn't he currently own a $121,000 C7 Z06, that is quicker than his Mustang?
It's all speculation at this point. You don't have any facts either. Because he has a 350R and feels it's very comparable to the existing C7Z but the exotic feel and performance gains could make it worth t go him. AMG is building a mid engine hyper car that's probably why didn't build a ME car. BMW, ya because everyone is clamoring to pay 140K for a three cylinder, nor is that cars performance even close to its price tag. They won't need to sell 10,000+ cars, they'll need to get 10 to 15% of current C7Z buyers to move up. The biggest difference between Corvette is they have over 60 years of history and followers, none of those cars are America's sports car.
Not sure what you mean by higher level 911's? To most, the "higher level" begins with the GT3, which with typical options ends up in the $160K range.
Comparing the NSX to anything at this point isn't relevant. Gen 1 never had anywhere near the following nor production numbers of the vette, and Gen 2 was a disaster well before it ever launched. The car not selling has little to do with price...and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that no one likes it.
At $150K a ME vette will sell very well. At $320K the 720S is sold out. Undoubtedly, GM is smart enough not to abandoned their loyal vette faithful, and will have options for the 'every man.' However, you can bet there will be an upscale, super vette, priced beyond the soon to be announced ZR1...and there are lots of guys chomping at the bit to pay.
I know you post A LOT here, and I often respect what you have to say...out of curiosity, what vette(s) do you currently own?
Here's mine:
Regarding the new NSX. It is relevant as it's a new mid engine car competing for the same customers as the Corvette, Mercedes, Porsche, BWM, etc. Acura apparently thought people would like it or they wouldn't have spent the hundreds of millions of dollars to design and tool the car, and then build a plant in Ohio strictly for it's production.
The plant was designed to produce around 2,000-2,400 NSX's annually, not 600 annually, a current sales show.
Who can say at this point if a mid engine Corvette might turn people off just as the new NSX has? It just also might be a dud.
I currently have three Corvettes. A fully restored 1956, an all original( including paint) 63,000 miles 1964 coupe, a C6 Z06 and a Mercedes as a daily driver.
08-18-2017, 12:27 AM
