JoesC5

Restored 1956, all original(including paint) 1964 coupe and a lightly modified C6 Z06.

quick04Z06

If we want a lighter, nimbler mid-engined Vette, more like a Cayman GT4, I think 100-120K should do it. If you want a big, thumping, Ferrari- eating mid-engined car, I would be prepared to pay 200K, which I think is not unreasonable.

They key for GM will be getting good financing options for their higher- end cars. The Germans for example have great lease programs, typically, and GM often does not.

JoesC5

I see where Ferrari is coming out with a new 200 MPH entry level front engine 598 horsepower 3.9L turbo V8 car at around $200,000. The Portofino. And it has a retractable hardtop which means it's both a true convertible and also a true hardtop coupe.

I wonder why they are wasting their money with a new front engine car when everyone on this forum "knows" a mid engine car is the "bees knees". I guess that Ferrari has no idea what it's customers want.

Mercedes AMG GT R front engine sports car with it's 47.3%/52.7% weight distribution that did the Ring in 7:10 and now a new Ferrari front engine car that has a 46%/54% weight distribution, that will be unveiled in Germany next month.

tbrenny33

The purpose of that Portofino is to try and get more customers at a lower price point, the last time ferrari tried (california T) it was a total bust.

JerriVette

The new Ferrari portifino is stunning. That 2 plus 2 would be the amazing new vehicle of choice. I personally see as the corvette goes rear mid engine ..believe it or not the camaro can evolve closer to the portifino ...and leave the retro fifth gen camaro styling in the dust...

The mustang almost made the jump with the Ford evos concept shown before the latest very nice evolution version. That Ford evo concept looked so hot, so close to the Aston Martin coupe I would have made the jump...

The second generation camaro had quite a lot of styling cues to the Ferrari of that era...

A mid rear engine corvette will allow the camaro to give up the First generation styling and move closer to the portifino ...a stunning 2 plus 2 and easily have more than the 550 hp of the beautiful Ferrari...

JustinStrife

LIStingray

If GM produces a turbo 4 cylinder 400hp 3,200lb mid engine coupe - a lighter and higher powered Cayman style car - you will have to find a whole new group of buyers - the current buyers are after and expecting a 700hp+ supercharged V8 that outperforms anything currently made at any price.

sunsalem

Huh?
The California has been Ferrari's best selling model for years.


FWIW, the Portofino is slated to be its replacement:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ferra...t-look-review/

JoesC5

A bunch of people on this forum believe that GM can make a mid engine Corvette for "only" $5,000 more than a front engine Corvette.

If that is true, then Ferrari should also be able to accomplish that same feat. If they can make the front engine Portofina for only $5,000 less than their mid engine Ferrari, then why do they need a new front engine car? Just lower the price of their mid engine Ferrari to $205,000($5,000 more than it costs to make the Pertofino), and only have one version to manufacture.

That way they will accomplish what you believe is their goal....to try and get more customers at a lower price point.

GM could do the same...just lower the price of the entry level Stingray to a price of a Camaro. That would bring in a bunch more customers to the Corvette(and also create a negative profit for GM on every base Corvette they sell).

JoesC5

A huge bunch of current buyers are happy with their 465 HP V8 front engine Corvette. If all those current Corvette buyers had wanted a 650 HP Corvette they would have passed on the StingRay and the GS and bought a Z06, but they didn't.

I'm happy with my 505+ HP C6 Z06, and not looking for a 700 HP+ Corvette. If I were to buy a next generation Corvette, 500 HP V8 in the front of me would suit me fine. Just get the weight back down to match my C6 Z06(3175 pounds). 3.4 seconds 0-60(on OE street tires) and a 11.2 1/4 mile(on OE street tires) and a 198 MPH top speed ain't shabby(and neither is 30+ MPG on the highway, that is better than the 2017 Boxster with it's 350 HP 2.0L 4 cylinder 6 speed manual at 26 MPG highway, and it's SLOW 4.3 seconds 0-60, 12.3 1/4 mile and 177 MPH top speed). Oh and the Boxster cost over $80,000 with popular options(my Z06 had a $80,015 MSRP).

Just update my C6 Z06 by employing better engineering to get the weight distribution closer to what the AMG GT R and the Portofina has, and with a "good" DCT, and my acceleration numbers will improve.

Nothing wrong with the aerodynamics of my wide body, wide tire C6 Z06, so leave that alone.

Glenn Quagmire

LOL. Think of this car as the base Stingray or VW Beetle...only with Ferrari, just as it was with the California T, this car is aimed at women. Notice that the highest performance cars from nearly every manufacturer are ME. Why do you think that is?

sunsalem

It's not an article of faith.
A GM executive said it first several years ago (sorry, I don't remember who it was).
We get IT, Joe.
You don't like the idea of a Corvette ME.
Now, please, give it a rest...sheesh.

JoesC5

Highest performance touring sports cars cars that most people buy, not the 95% that will ever have their car on a race track.

GM---Corvette Z06, front engine.

Dodge---Viper, front engine. Now history.

Mercedes---AMG GT R, front engine.

Ferrari---812 Superfast, front engine.

Ferrari---Portofino, front engine. For us hillbilly rednecks in our flyover states that can't sell enough vegetables from our garden to afford a half million to one million dollar mid engine sports car.

Nissan---GTR, front engine.

The front engine layout has also proved itself in racing, or do you think the C7 r is a flop because it's a front engine car.

Sure, there are high performance super expensive mid engine cars out there, but what do most people buy, to drive as daily drivers, take wo week road trips all over the USA, etc.

Admit it. The mid engine platform does not bring anything to the table that a front engine sports car does for the vast majority of sports car owners. Actually gives up a lot.

Oh, I believe that GM will bring out a mid engine car, but as a Cadillac, to help bolster their image as a true contender in the luxury car field. GM is way more interested in improving the Cadillac image then they are with having a low volume, high cost, mid engine Corvette. At the same time, I bet that GM has a Plan B in case the mid engine Cadillac is a flop, to salvage what they can, and bring out a mid engine Corvette using the same platform, but with a Chevrolet engine(but not to replace the proven sales success of the front engine platform in the Corvette).

PS. about the "women" remark. I have two lady friends that drive C7 Z06's. One(who is a single grandmother) has a manual and the other(married) has an automatic(her car, but her husband has a C7 Z06 that is a manual). I guess that means that the C7 Z06 was designed for women also. Don't you just hate it that you are driving a woman's sports car.

JoesC5

I remember when that was said, but my take on it was that he meant that it would cost GM an additional $5,000 to build a mid engine Corvette. Of course that would mean a $20,000-$25,000(or more) increase in the MSRP, not a $5,000 increase in the MSRP.

Or do you really believe that the $15,000 increase in the MSRP for the Carbon 65 Edition option actually cost GM that much in material and direct labor, and they just pass it on without covering any of their other expenses.

vetteman41960

Joe there are lots of folks that want and are willing to pay a premium for a American made rear mid engine supercar. I think if GM prices the mid rear engine Vett between 130k to 150k there will be lots of takers.

The driving dynamic of a mid rear engine are far superior to a front mid engine.

Much easier for the average driver to extract that performance with a rear mid than from the mid front platform.

I am speaking from experience as I am on Vett number 10 with my 2016 Z06 Z07 Callaway SC757.

Great car love it. But I have also owned a Lamborghini Gallardo which was a blast to drive and could be pushed by a average driver with what is much better control and confidence than what I can push my Callaway with the same level of control as the car reach its limits.

Problem with Lamborghini & Ferrari is the maintenance cost are ridiculous. I have to ship my Lamborghini over 80 miles to the closest Lamborghini dealer.

And everything from an oil change $500.00 to a lost gas cap is outrageously expensive. Gas gap replacement $480.00 that is just crazy .

With a Mid rear engine Vett I have 6 dealership to chose from all withing a half hours drive.

I am sure an oil change on my Callaway is not anywhere close to the cost of the Lambo oil change. I don't know the exact cost as the 1st 4 oil changes are on the house. But I am sure it's under $100.00 with 10qt of Mobil one and a filter.

I hope that GM continues to offer entry level Stingray with a 500 hp starting at 60k plus.

But many of us would also like the choice of a true supercar with rear mid layout and would be willing to spend 150k plus.

Joe I will give you credit that you know more about an 09 Z06 than anyone here on the forum.

But you seem to come across as that is the ultimate Corvette and GM has not built a better Vett since the C6 Z06.

I also loved the C6 had a brand new 07 Z06 loved the car.

I also hated the cheap rental car seats and plastic interior from day one and a steering wheel from a pulled from a Malibu.

Had it been built with quality of a c7 3lt interior I would have kept the car.

I just tired of looking at the poor switch quality and cheap plastic that covered the whole interior.

I loved the body style then and still do today.

But with all things time marches on you now have a Stingray with 465 hp that weighs 300 pound more than a C6Z and has comparable performance with many more comfort feature , more air bags and safety features built in and is just as fast as the lighter C6Z with its plastic interior.

Anyone who is true to their word would agree that the C6Z interior was inferior and had no place in a 60k plus sports car. It alone was the single biggest dissapointment with that generation and was a black eye on an otherwise great car.

I wonder you have stated you don't like the C7 which is understandable as beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You also stated you will never by a mid rear engine Vett here on this forum.

So I just wonder why you are always on the C7 Z forum and now the C8 forum when everything goes back to the C6 Z06 being the ultimate Vett. & countless time repeatedly posting the vehicle weight and performance specks and what a great car it is to travel in with excellent gas mileage.

Have you compared the C7 interior to the C6 interior? That alone make the C7 far superior and it's interior looks to be part of a 60k plus sports car.

We all get it. You love your C6z and I agree it a cool car and still looks great 10year after it was introduced.


That being said there are thousands of Vett lovers that want a new higher performance Vett.

The only way to exceed the current platform is to go rear mid engine.

I know your an expert but GM themselves have stated that the front engine rear drive platform is maxed out.

At this point the only way to go is rear mid engine.

C7 front mid Platform is maxed out. Great GT car but it's OK that others want to take the next step and purchase a rear mid Vett.

So try not to shoot down your fellow Corvette enthusiasts just because we would like something other than the same front engine rear drive platform.

Hopefully GM will make a Vett that we all can love .

A entry level Front engine Stingray plus the GS and Z06 & Zr1. That's 4 front engine models to choose from.

Then add a rear mid engine platform as the Halo Corvette and tap into the buyers who currently Corvette does not have a model to sell this buying group.


Who knows Joe maybe the mid engine Vett will know your socks off.

Choices are great!!

PS Joe there is a forum just for guys who like you think that the C6Z is the ultimate Corvette.

Funny thing is I don't see any C7 owner constantly on the C6 forum saying how great the C7 is compared to the C6.

Most stay right on the C7 forum as that's the car that interest them the most. I would think most C7 owners don't have a desire to go on C6 forum and layout C7 specs and how it's base model performs at the same level aa a C6Z.

sunsalem

You may right on that...I can't recall the precise wording of the quote.

I hear ya on that.
Chevrolet took a page out of Ford's Mustang book.

quick04Z06

Ferrari is now an independent entity and publicly traded. The management answers to shareholders. Like most luxury product brands, I think you will see the new masters try to increase production and sales every year--indeed production has already gone from 1,798 units in 1977 to 8,014 units in 2016. It will be interesting to see how this works out--one of the things that makes Ferraris great is the cachet of limited production. Too many "entry level" cars and that cachet will be compromised....

Glenn Quagmire

As Salem pointed out...we ALL know that you're not an ME fan...or even a C7 fan for that matter. I, for one, am tired of you droning on about it both here and the various C7 forums.

You seem numb to the fact that the fastest, best handling race cars on the planet are NOT front engine (think IMSA, Indy and F1). Moreover, BMW, MB, AM, Ford, Acura, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, McLaren, Bugatti and Koenigsegg all have or are developing their halo cars in a ME configuration. While this seems hard for you to grasp, most car people understand why. HMMM...I wonder what the fastest production cars in the world (Chiron, Huracan Performante, 918, LaFerrari, P1 and Regera) have in common? Yes, all have four wheels, two seats and a steering wheel. But, curiously, none are front engine.

Two women you know that have Z06's means about as much to me as your cynical, inane posts. Why do you care so much? You aren't a new vette buyer regardless of what the configuration is. Life is happening all around you Joe, grab what's left of it, put down the keyboard and enjoy it. After 35,000+ posts, I think most here know your viewpoints by now, and have tired of the constant arguments. I'm not sure if you're aware...there's no tangible benefit to being the most right guy on the interweb.

PS - If you owned a late model mid-engine exotic, you would understand the discernible differences between it and the vette. Because you don't, you have no relevant experience from which to compare them. Thus, to someone that has, your opinion is irrelevant. I've enjoyed all of the new vettes I've had in the last 6 years (1-C6 Z, 1-C6 ZR1, 2-C7 Z07's), but it's not in the same league as the ME supercars owners want it to be compared to. I don't know a single owner of a 675LT, 488, Aventador SV, GT3 RS or NFGT willing to replace it with a vette. Make it a comparable ME vette, and it has the potential of being VERY compelling.

VETTE-NV

What he said.

JoesC5

I buy what I like and what I can afford, as do a lot of other people.

For the first 6 months of 2017, there were approximately 35,000 front engine sports cars sold in the US and Canada from GM, BMW, Mercedes, Mazda, Maserati, Fiat, Ferrari, Nissan, Jaguar, Aston Martin,and Dodge.

Of all those super duper mid engine cars you think are so great, how many were sold in the US and Canada during the first 6 months of 2017? Especially those mid engine pure "race" cars that a you go on and on about?

Maybe, all those buyers of front engine sports cars don't drive their cars 10/10 on the track 100% of the time they are driven and they want a sports car that is more practical, and less expensive and is driven at less than 8/10 most if the time, on the street. Maybe they don't care what a pure "race" car drives like on a race track, when they are looking to buy a sports car to drive on the street.

Why are you driving a Chevrolet front engine sports car? Are there no mid engine sports cars for sale?

Even the sales of the base Stingray was greater than the almighty Z06 that you drive. I wonder why more people decided to buy a lessor car when they could have purchased a Z06 that would accelerate quicker and hit higher g forces during cornering. Could it be because they didn't feel that they needed, or could afford, a car that could accelerate quicker and corner at higher speeds than the base Stingray?

If everyone wanted the absolute "best" and was willing to pay for it, they why doesn't GM drop every car except the Z06? Could it be because not everyone thinks like you do?

Those ~35,000 people saw no purpose in paying a premium for a car that will corner like a pure "race" car, but they are never going to be driven like a pure "race" car, on a race track. When I bought my C6 Z06 I wasn't concerned what a F1 car could do on a race track.

Apparently sales numbers do matter and people speak with their pocketbooks and I bet more front engine sports cars were sold in the US and Canada in the first 6 months of 2017 than were the expensive mid engine sports cars.