C8 Birth
09-13-2017, 12:41 PM
#21
Team Owner
Joe, what I am saying is there is not much fuel savings with smaller displacement motors, pressurized, over big N/A V8s of the same HP. If you look at EPA fuel economy numbers you will see the composite differences on similar power engines is small--usually less than 10%, and the highway numbers often favor the big V8s because you can hang such a big overdrive on them to lope along the highway.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
Like the supercharged little engine in my daily driver. On the highway I can get 30.5 MPG on a 200 mile trip, just cruising along at 2,500 RPM, not in boost.
I can drive(as I have) the same 200 mile trip in my N/A huge V8 in my Z06 and get 31.2 MPG, just loafing along at 1500 RPM. I don't need lower gearing to let the huge V8 perform as expected.
But the BIG difference is, when I go WOT to pass a slow car on a two lane highway, which one (my DD or my Z06, and both weigh the same) wastes absolutely no time in the opposing lane of traffic? 185HP vs 505HP, the 185 HP loses the acceleration contest, and maybe my life it I don't get back in my lane quick enough.
Now, soup up that little engine in my DD from it's 185HP to 505HP, and see if it can still get 30.5 MPG, cruising on the highway. I presented example of little engines with BIG horsepower, compared to similar cars with BIG horsepower but big N/A V8's and which ones had the best gas mileage?
I can add an Edelbrock E-Force to my 427 cu in engine and get 657HP with a low 5 psi boost while maintaining my 11:1 CR, but when running in economy mode on the highway(not in boost), my high compression ratio keeps my BIG V8 running efficiently, and I will still maintain my 30+ MPG highway gas mileage.
Take a tiny 4 or 6 cylinder and to get 657 HP you will have to lower the CR to around 8.5-9.1 in order to run 15-16 psi of boost. That low compression ratio hurts gas mileage(look at the Ford GT, for example). 11 MPG city/18 MPG highway with 647 HP vs my 15 MPG city/30 MPG highway with 657 HP(if I had an E-Force).
Last edited by JoesC5; 09-14-2017 at 08:52 AM.
09-13-2017, 02:02 PM
#22
the European manufacturers are already headed that way, and the japanese and koreanS ditto. not sure how long before the 6's and 4's disappear as all manufacturers turn to ONLY electric AND THE ULTIMATE DOWNER-SELF-DRIVING ELECTRIC CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we better hang on to our V8 corvettes, because they should be desirable for a long long time. i'm sure many have checked out what a '70's
mopar/hemi is fetching along with all those other glorious engines of that muscle car era.
SAD(as the prez is oft to say)
we better hang on to our V8 corvettes, because they should be desirable for a long long time. i'm sure many have checked out what a '70's
mopar/hemi is fetching along with all those other glorious engines of that muscle car era.
SAD(as the prez is oft to say)
Thing is Europeans and Japanese WANT to sell to the USA but that is not necessarily the other way around (See Chevrolet pulling out of EU).
Trucks and big engine-d US cars sales have done pretty well so far even after 30 years plus of EU and Japanese cars pursuing the "one liter" market for then "kind of" going higher from there.
I say the jury is still out on this..
09-13-2017, 03:02 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
I think there is hope in this department.
Thing is Europeans and Japanese WANT to sell to the USA but that is not necessarily the other way around (See Chevrolet pulling out of EU).
Trucks and big engine-d US cars sales have done pretty well so far even after 30 years plus of EU and Japanese cars pursuing the "one liter" market for then "kind of" going higher from there.
I say the jury is still out on this..
Thing is Europeans and Japanese WANT to sell to the USA but that is not necessarily the other way around (See Chevrolet pulling out of EU).
Trucks and big engine-d US cars sales have done pretty well so far even after 30 years plus of EU and Japanese cars pursuing the "one liter" market for then "kind of" going higher from there.
I say the jury is still out on this..
Now, China is the largest car market and only getting bigger, has the largest number of electric car sales now, and is the largest source of rare earth metals used in rechargeable batts. Bottom line: China knows it cannot beat the West and the Japanese and Koreans at the gas/diesel fuel vehicle game; but, it can leap frog to become the worlds largest producer and market (already is) for E-cars AND will sell the rare earths for everyone's batts.
In short, they want to be the big dog in the next generation of autos, and they are well on their way to doing so. This adoption of the all-E policy in 14 nations shown in my CNN link above plays right into this strategy. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some deals were cut between Europe and China to adopt this policy in return for some Chinese direct investment and trade benefits.
Since the US is not the largest market any more, I suspect our ability to forestall this march has slipped quite a bit.
E-Corvette, here we come....
Last edited by quick04Z06; 09-13-2017 at 03:03 PM.
09-13-2017, 04:25 PM
#24
You are correct, historically.
Now, China is the largest car market and only getting bigger, has the largest number of electric car sales now, and is the largest source of rare earth metals used in rechargeable batts. Bottom line: China knows it cannot beat the West and the Japanese and Koreans at the gas/diesel fuel vehicle game; but, it can leap frog to become the worlds largest producer and market (already is) for E-cars AND will sell the rare earths for everyone's batts.
In short, they want to be the big dog in the next generation of autos, and they are well on their way to doing so. This adoption of the all-E policy in 14 nations shown in my CNN link above plays right into this strategy. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some deals were cut between Europe and China to adopt this policy in return for some Chinese direct investment and trade benefits.
Since the US is not the largest market any more, I suspect our ability to forestall this march has slipped quite a bit.
E-Corvette, here we come....
Now, China is the largest car market and only getting bigger, has the largest number of electric car sales now, and is the largest source of rare earth metals used in rechargeable batts. Bottom line: China knows it cannot beat the West and the Japanese and Koreans at the gas/diesel fuel vehicle game; but, it can leap frog to become the worlds largest producer and market (already is) for E-cars AND will sell the rare earths for everyone's batts.
In short, they want to be the big dog in the next generation of autos, and they are well on their way to doing so. This adoption of the all-E policy in 14 nations shown in my CNN link above plays right into this strategy. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if some deals were cut between Europe and China to adopt this policy in return for some Chinese direct investment and trade benefits.
Since the US is not the largest market any more, I suspect our ability to forestall this march has slipped quite a bit.
E-Corvette, here we come....
Thanks!
09-13-2017, 05:24 PM
#25
Safety Car
09-14-2017, 08:55 AM
#26
Team Owner
I think there is hope in this department.
Thing is Europeans and Japanese WANT to sell to the USA but that is not necessarily the other way around (See Chevrolet pulling out of EU).
Trucks and big engine-d US cars sales have done pretty well so far even after 30 years plus of EU and Japanese cars pursuing the "one liter" market for then "kind of" going higher from there.
I say the jury is still out on this..
Thing is Europeans and Japanese WANT to sell to the USA but that is not necessarily the other way around (See Chevrolet pulling out of EU).
Trucks and big engine-d US cars sales have done pretty well so far even after 30 years plus of EU and Japanese cars pursuing the "one liter" market for then "kind of" going higher from there.
I say the jury is still out on this..
The Corvette is still sold in Europe, but the sales numbers are not that good.
2015-----646
2016-----962
2017-----582
Compare those numbers with the sales of sports cars in the US, from Japan and Europe.
Last edited by JoesC5; 09-14-2017 at 09:13 AM.
09-14-2017, 09:23 AM
#27
Race Director
^^^^^
The Corvette has had a tough time historically in Europe, which is certainly not helped by this:
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/gm-...g-for-new.html
I don't know if this is tariffs doing this or what, but the C7 is certainly not the "value" in Europe that it is in the U.S.
The Corvette has had a tough time historically in Europe, which is certainly not helped by this:
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/gm-...g-for-new.html
I don't know if this is tariffs doing this or what, but the C7 is certainly not the "value" in Europe that it is in the U.S.
09-14-2017, 09:57 AM
#28
Team Owner
^^^^^
The Corvette has had a tough time historically in Europe, which is certainly not helped by this:
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/gm-...g-for-new.html
I don't know if this is tariffs doing this or what, but the C7 is certainly not the "value" in Europe that it is in the U.S.
The Corvette has had a tough time historically in Europe, which is certainly not helped by this:
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/gm-...g-for-new.html
I don't know if this is tariffs doing this or what, but the C7 is certainly not the "value" in Europe that it is in the U.S.
09-14-2017, 02:25 PM
#29
I want to again point out that the 6.2l supercharged v8 lt4 gets better mpg than the 3.5l twin turbo v6 Ford gt gets. At the same time it makes a lot more torque, has a better power curve, less stressed (lasts longer and easier to modify), sounds better, and costs less to make.
If gm wants to make a hybrid corvette that's fine (I still don't want them to) as long as they make it a parallel hybrid where you can still upgrade the ICE as you always have, they keep the weight down, and they KEEP THE V8.
If gm wants to make a hybrid corvette that's fine (I still don't want them to) as long as they make it a parallel hybrid where you can still upgrade the ICE as you always have, they keep the weight down, and they KEEP THE V8.
09-14-2017, 02:34 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
09-14-2017, 03:54 PM
#31
Race Director
2017 Boxster S IN Germany is 67,212 Euros ($80,041). In the U.S, the car's MSRP is $69,800
2017 911 Carrera S IN Germany is 112,075 Euros ($133,465). In the U.S., the car's MSRP is $105,100
2017 C7 Z51 IN Germany is 79,500 Euros ($94,675). In the U.S., the car's MSRP is $63,285 (The US MSRP reflects Z51 and Mag ride)
I don't know the level of standard equipment in a home market Porsche verses a U.S. spec Porsche. For the Stingray, ALL European Stingrays come standard with Z51 and Mag ride.
So, what we know is DON'T buy your Porsche or your Corvette in GERMANY!!!!!!
09-14-2017, 06:27 PM
#32
Team Owner
2017 Cayman S IN Germany is 65,189 Euros ($77,632). In the U.S. the car's MSRP is $67,700
2017 Boxster S IN Germany is 67,212 Euros ($80,041). In the U.S, the car's MSRP is $69,800
2017 911 Carrera S IN Germany is 112,075 Euros ($133,465). In the U.S., the car's MSRP is $105,100
2017 C7 Z51 IN Germany is 79,500 Euros ($94,675). In the U.S., the car's MSRP is $63,285 (The US MSRP reflects Z51 and Mag ride)
I don't know the level of standard equipment in a home market Porsche verses a U.S. spec Porsche. For the Stingray, ALL European Stingrays come standard with Z51 and Mag ride.
So, what we know is DON'T buy your Porsche or your Corvette in GERMANY!!!!!!
2017 Boxster S IN Germany is 67,212 Euros ($80,041). In the U.S, the car's MSRP is $69,800
2017 911 Carrera S IN Germany is 112,075 Euros ($133,465). In the U.S., the car's MSRP is $105,100
2017 C7 Z51 IN Germany is 79,500 Euros ($94,675). In the U.S., the car's MSRP is $63,285 (The US MSRP reflects Z51 and Mag ride)
I don't know the level of standard equipment in a home market Porsche verses a U.S. spec Porsche. For the Stingray, ALL European Stingrays come standard with Z51 and Mag ride.
So, what we know is DON'T buy your Porsche or your Corvette in GERMANY!!!!!!
So, no real surprise that the Corvette is priced higher in Europe than in the US, as the home grown car are also priced higher in Europe, than in the US.
09-14-2017, 07:33 PM
#33
Race Director
^^^^^
The disparity in pricing is kind of shocking to me, and really makes no sense. Boxster/Cayman are both about $10K MORE in Germany than the U.S., while the Corvette is a whopping $31,000 MORE in Germany than in the U.S. And then look at the Carrera S at almost $30,000 MORE in Germany than the U.S.
None of that makes ANY sense to me
The only thing I can think of is that the home market Porsches have a LOT more standard equipment while the U.S. cars are "de-contended" to hit a price point.
The disparity in pricing is kind of shocking to me, and really makes no sense. Boxster/Cayman are both about $10K MORE in Germany than the U.S., while the Corvette is a whopping $31,000 MORE in Germany than in the U.S. And then look at the Carrera S at almost $30,000 MORE in Germany than the U.S.
None of that makes ANY sense to me
The only thing I can think of is that the home market Porsches have a LOT more standard equipment while the U.S. cars are "de-contended" to hit a price point.
09-15-2017, 03:51 PM
#34
Melting Slicks
^^^^^
The disparity in pricing is kind of shocking to me, and really makes no sense. Boxster/Cayman are both about $10K MORE in Germany than the U.S., while the Corvette is a whopping $31,000 MORE in Germany than in the U.S. And then look at the Carrera S at almost $30,000 MORE in Germany than the U.S.
None of that makes ANY sense to me
The only thing I can think of is that the home market Porsches have a LOT more standard equipment while the U.S. cars are "de-contended" to hit a price point.
The disparity in pricing is kind of shocking to me, and really makes no sense. Boxster/Cayman are both about $10K MORE in Germany than the U.S., while the Corvette is a whopping $31,000 MORE in Germany than in the U.S. And then look at the Carrera S at almost $30,000 MORE in Germany than the U.S.
None of that makes ANY sense to me
The only thing I can think of is that the home market Porsches have a LOT more standard equipment while the U.S. cars are "de-contended" to hit a price point.
GM might should build and sell a Corvette in the EU equipped with a high pressure turbo 4 and elec motors.
Last edited by quick04Z06; 09-15-2017 at 03:52 PM.
09-16-2017, 08:53 PM
#35
Can someone out there name me a twin turbo V6 engine that achives 500 or more hp and better gas mileage than the LS7, LS9, LT1, LT4?
Switching to a twin turbo V6 won't shave off much, if any, MPGs.
Switching to a twin turbo V6 won't shave off much, if any, MPGs.
09-17-2017, 03:36 PM
#36
Team Owner
^^^^^
The disparity in pricing is kind of shocking to me, and really makes no sense. Boxster/Cayman are both about $10K MORE in Germany than the U.S., while the Corvette is a whopping $31,000 MORE in Germany than in the U.S. And then look at the Carrera S at almost $30,000 MORE in Germany than the U.S.
None of that makes ANY sense to me
The only thing I can think of is that the home market Porsches have a LOT more standard equipment while the U.S. cars are "de-contended" to hit a price point.
The disparity in pricing is kind of shocking to me, and really makes no sense. Boxster/Cayman are both about $10K MORE in Germany than the U.S., while the Corvette is a whopping $31,000 MORE in Germany than in the U.S. And then look at the Carrera S at almost $30,000 MORE in Germany than the U.S.
None of that makes ANY sense to me
The only thing I can think of is that the home market Porsches have a LOT more standard equipment while the U.S. cars are "de-contended" to hit a price point.