2019 Corvette News
10-15-2017, 06:23 PM
#21
Different cars for sure, but I'm considering a GS, ZO6 and a ZL1.
10-15-2017, 08:33 PM
#22
16 Vettes and counting…..
No argument with you on differentiation, but I don't think performance is as important as aesthetics and interior layout and quality in the choice many (most ?) people make.
The Camaro is a great "pony car" BUT it is really competing against the Mustang. In addition, while the Camaro ZL1 has become a great track car, (thanks to Mark Reuss's determination), it can still be easily confused by John Q. Public with the I-4 and V-6 powered base Camaro's that are ubiquitous. The Mustang has the same issue. A lot of "sporty" guys just don't want that kind of confusion !!
On the other hand, I don't think the Camaro team has been constrained in any way be GM in pushing the Camaro to be a better car. That is good for GM, for Corvette and for anyone who loves to drive.
Also, two-seaters are not really in the same market as four-seaters because of lifestyle choices - I know because I could not even consider buying my Corvette until my kids grew up.
With the demise of the Viper, the Corvette is in a unique class of its own among American cars and is competing primarily with Porsche, but also Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Acura, Mercedes-Benz/AMG and even Ferrari. I think the push for more performance and better road-handling is primarily to compete with those marques.
The Camaro is a great "pony car" BUT it is really competing against the Mustang. In addition, while the Camaro ZL1 has become a great track car, (thanks to Mark Reuss's determination), it can still be easily confused by John Q. Public with the I-4 and V-6 powered base Camaro's that are ubiquitous. The Mustang has the same issue. A lot of "sporty" guys just don't want that kind of confusion !!
On the other hand, I don't think the Camaro team has been constrained in any way be GM in pushing the Camaro to be a better car. That is good for GM, for Corvette and for anyone who loves to drive.
Also, two-seaters are not really in the same market as four-seaters because of lifestyle choices - I know because I could not even consider buying my Corvette until my kids grew up.
With the demise of the Viper, the Corvette is in a unique class of its own among American cars and is competing primarily with Porsche, but also Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Acura, Mercedes-Benz/AMG and even Ferrari. I think the push for more performance and better road-handling is primarily to compete with those marques.
A mid-engine Corvette will offer more of the exclusivity/uniqueness you speak of, especially if the price point is similar to the C7. I think it will be, which is why I doubt there will be both a FE and ME Corvette sold side-by-side for very long, if at all.
10-15-2017, 08:56 PM
#23
GM will build 2 corvettes,
1.mid-engine
2.front engine
these will be built side-by-side,in bowling green
GM needs a halo car,and needs to build it in-house,this is why they built an a ''paint shop'' 3 times the size of the org corvette plant,,the org plant needed tons of upgrades too
1.mid-engine
2.front engine
these will be built side-by-side,in bowling green
GM needs a halo car,and needs to build it in-house,this is why they built an a ''paint shop'' 3 times the size of the org corvette plant,,the org plant needed tons of upgrades too
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BearZ06 (10-15-2017)
10-15-2017, 09:26 PM
#24
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St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
Point of Order: I have a hard time believing that Bowling Green would ever be able to rationalize having two completely separate automated production lines, one for a front engine and and one for a ME.
But is there a possibility that the ME Vette could could be built as a $150k plus hand built halo car?
Just ruminating.
But is there a possibility that the ME Vette could could be built as a $150k plus hand built halo car?
Just ruminating.
1. The C7 panel supplier filed legal papers to expand their plant because their customer (GM) wants them to continue providing C7 panels while they provide body panels for a new GM car made from the same composite material as the Corvette.
2. The Bowling Green plant has had a major expansion, probably large enough to permit a second production line of a lower volume vehicle.
3. The Corvette is based on providing super sports car performance at a pedestrian price. In my opinion, Corvette could add maybe a 8 or 9% increase to just over $60K to a new model, but no way will they be able to support an enlarged Bowling Green plant on a $150K car. Ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand, a continuation of the Stingray base & Z51 (GS too?) at a lower price with the ME car at a higher, $100K price replacing the Z06 and soon to be released ZR1, would be logical and it mimics Corvettes direct competitor, Porsche and all their models.
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Jackie Chiles (10-16-2017)
10-16-2017, 03:25 AM
#25
Burning Brakes
Just a few points to remember.
1. The C7 panel supplier filed legal papers to expand their plant because their customer (GM) wants them to continue providing C7 panels while they provide body panels for a new GM car made from the same composite material as the Corvette.
2. The Bowling Green plant has had a major expansion, probably large enough to permit a second production line of a lower volume vehicle.
3. The Corvette is based on providing super sports car performance at a pedestrian price. In my opinion, Corvette could add maybe a 8 or 9% increase to just over $60K to a new model, but no way will they be able to support an enlarged Bowling Green plant on a $150K car. Ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand, a continuation of the Stingray base & Z51 (GS too?) at a lower price with the ME car at a higher, $100K price replacing the Z06 and soon to be released ZR1, would be logical and it mimics Corvettes direct competitor, Porsche and all their models.
1. The C7 panel supplier filed legal papers to expand their plant because their customer (GM) wants them to continue providing C7 panels while they provide body panels for a new GM car made from the same composite material as the Corvette.
2. The Bowling Green plant has had a major expansion, probably large enough to permit a second production line of a lower volume vehicle.
3. The Corvette is based on providing super sports car performance at a pedestrian price. In my opinion, Corvette could add maybe a 8 or 9% increase to just over $60K to a new model, but no way will they be able to support an enlarged Bowling Green plant on a $150K car. Ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand, a continuation of the Stingray base & Z51 (GS too?) at a lower price with the ME car at a higher, $100K price replacing the Z06 and soon to be released ZR1, would be logical and it mimics Corvettes direct competitor, Porsche and all their models.
The reason the C7 Z06 is below $100k is that it shares 90% of its Bill of Materials with the Stingray. Likewise with all the 911 models - Porsche makes the GT3 more affordable by building lots of Carreras. That will be harder to do with the ME, but still a key to their overall business model. Using Porsche again, the entire 911 line benefits by sharing a lot of components with the Boxster. As a result I think GM will maximize commonality using a common power train and a modular frame, and "buy-in" on the early ME production cars to get volume up. 2019 may be the right opportunity to be an "early adopter", just like 2013 was for the C7.
Of course the car also has to be good, but as good as these guys did with the C7, I have no doubt, the ME will knock it out of the park.
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roadbike56 (10-16-2017)
10-16-2017, 10:33 AM
#26
Race Director
The Cadillac division funded the bowling green plant expansion, not the present corvette team.
The Old GM prior to bankruptcy paired for most of the research and development of the rear mid engine platform so the NEW GM doesn't have a lot of cost tied into the rear mid engine corvette that need to be passed onto corvette enthusiasts...
Since the corvette has always had a dedicated chassis...where the motor lands doesn't really add cost to the vehicle anyway...
Therorically based on these facts presented we should get a rear mid engine corvette for less than the present model...lol
Of course that's not going to happen but the continuous threads on why the new rear mid engine corvette will cost so much more than the current power level corvettes is just plain wrong...
Don't give Gam the idea they can rape us just because they moved the engine to the middle of the rear part of the car versus...the front ...
No torque tube needed either...
Half the coolers are all over the camaro ZL1 and z06 anyway...so cooling costs shouldn't go up....
Since GM doesn't manufacturer the 7 speed manual transmission the added cost of a transmission and transaxle for the rear mid engine vehicle shouldn't be too bad.....and at most I think we will see an added 5 grand tops per engine model...(LT1,LT4 and LT5)
The Old GM prior to bankruptcy paired for most of the research and development of the rear mid engine platform so the NEW GM doesn't have a lot of cost tied into the rear mid engine corvette that need to be passed onto corvette enthusiasts...
Since the corvette has always had a dedicated chassis...where the motor lands doesn't really add cost to the vehicle anyway...
Therorically based on these facts presented we should get a rear mid engine corvette for less than the present model...lol
Of course that's not going to happen but the continuous threads on why the new rear mid engine corvette will cost so much more than the current power level corvettes is just plain wrong...
Don't give Gam the idea they can rape us just because they moved the engine to the middle of the rear part of the car versus...the front ...
No torque tube needed either...
Half the coolers are all over the camaro ZL1 and z06 anyway...so cooling costs shouldn't go up....
Since GM doesn't manufacturer the 7 speed manual transmission the added cost of a transmission and transaxle for the rear mid engine vehicle shouldn't be too bad.....and at most I think we will see an added 5 grand tops per engine model...(LT1,LT4 and LT5)
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roadbike56 (10-17-2017)
10-16-2017, 11:30 AM
#27
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In 2007, Motor Trend wrote the Corvette Manifesto and quoted Bob Lutz who made the vision of C7 clear. A front engine and a mid engine Corvette would be built side by side, and they wanted to transition Corvette away from Chevrolet into a more prestige brand. Naturally, Cadillac would be part of that. While Corvette often pulled from the Chevrolet parts bin pool, they'll realign to share more with Cadillac.
Corvette must pursue Porsche and Cadillac must pursue BMW/AMG. I believe Corvette has no choice but to expand on its own, offering the two sports cars, then it must co-develop an SUV with Cadillac to chase Cayenne/Macan.
I can pull posts back from years ago when I said all this was going to happen.
Corvette must pursue Porsche and Cadillac must pursue BMW/AMG. I believe Corvette has no choice but to expand on its own, offering the two sports cars, then it must co-develop an SUV with Cadillac to chase Cayenne/Macan.
I can pull posts back from years ago when I said all this was going to happen.
10-16-2017, 03:08 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Just Pointing out:
Un-allocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17
2019 Model Year Key dates:
Order Guide published 11/20/17
Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17
First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)
North American International Auto Show 1/20/2018 - 1/28/2018
Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
I don't think we're going to see the ZR1 until NAIAS. We might see a pre-production car, but the specs and details under the hood are not coming until next year.
As for the C8, I think it's another year out, showing at NAIAS of 2019. Damn shame really, since I can't afford to buy a new vette every year but I'd really be interested in the ME if it's not out of my budget. I'm sure several buyers are in the same group, waiting to see what's next now that we have a glimpse.
Un-allocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17
2019 Model Year Key dates:
Order Guide published 11/20/17
Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17
First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)
North American International Auto Show 1/20/2018 - 1/28/2018
Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
I don't think we're going to see the ZR1 until NAIAS. We might see a pre-production car, but the specs and details under the hood are not coming until next year.
As for the C8, I think it's another year out, showing at NAIAS of 2019. Damn shame really, since I can't afford to buy a new vette every year but I'd really be interested in the ME if it's not out of my budget. I'm sure several buyers are in the same group, waiting to see what's next now that we have a glimpse.
10-16-2017, 04:26 PM
#29
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>C7 refresh with ZR1-esque fascia, A10, etc.. as holdover until mid engine car goes into production, thereby making more resources and focus available for development of mid engine car?
>C8 development continues as front engine platform to be sold alongside mid engine yet to be named (Zora?) halo car?
It was said by someone at some time on CF that C7 would continue selling alongside mid engine car for ~2 years. As time moves forward and other manufacturers best the "meaningless
" Nurburgring Nordschleife times the performance bar continues to be raised. If GM is to succeed at selling the mid engine car on the European continent they will need to address the number of legitimate or perceived negative opinions of the Corvette. IMHO this will push the MSRP of the car to ~$150K or more to offer the depth of quality, craftsmanship and refined performance of the Porsche GT2 RS at ~$200K.
I can't see GM making the mid engine car (Zora?) as THE ONLY HIGH PERFORMANCE CAR above the Camaro ZL1 or Camaro ZL1-1LE. A front engine Corvette appeals to a large demographic on performance, quality and price and I see it continuing. I could be wrong and that's of no concern to me as I'm excited to see the mid engine car move closer to reality and the performance bar raised by manufacturers year after year.
>C8 development continues as front engine platform to be sold alongside mid engine yet to be named (Zora?) halo car?
It was said by someone at some time on CF that C7 would continue selling alongside mid engine car for ~2 years. As time moves forward and other manufacturers best the "meaningless
" Nurburgring Nordschleife times the performance bar continues to be raised. If GM is to succeed at selling the mid engine car on the European continent they will need to address the number of legitimate or perceived negative opinions of the Corvette. IMHO this will push the MSRP of the car to ~$150K or more to offer the depth of quality, craftsmanship and refined performance of the Porsche GT2 RS at ~$200K. I can't see GM making the mid engine car (Zora?) as THE ONLY HIGH PERFORMANCE CAR above the Camaro ZL1 or Camaro ZL1-1LE. A front engine Corvette appeals to a large demographic on performance, quality and price and I see it continuing. I could be wrong and that's of no concern to me as I'm excited to see the mid engine car move closer to reality and the performance bar raised by manufacturers year after year.
10-16-2017, 06:44 PM
#30
Just a few points to remember.
1. The C7 panel supplier filed legal papers to expand their plant because their customer (GM) wants them to continue providing C7 panels while they provide body panels for a new GM car made from the same composite material as the Corvette.
2. The Bowling Green plant has had a major expansion, probably large enough to permit a second production line of a lower volume vehicle.
3. The Corvette is based on providing super sports car performance at a pedestrian price. In my opinion, Corvette could add maybe a 8 or 9% increase to just over $60K to a new model, but no way will they be able to support an enlarged Bowling Green plant on a $150K car. Ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand, a continuation of the Stingray base & Z51 (GS too?) at a lower price with the ME car at a higher, $100K price replacing the Z06 and soon to be released ZR1, would be logical and it mimics Corvettes direct competitor, Porsche and all their models.
1. The C7 panel supplier filed legal papers to expand their plant because their customer (GM) wants them to continue providing C7 panels while they provide body panels for a new GM car made from the same composite material as the Corvette.
2. The Bowling Green plant has had a major expansion, probably large enough to permit a second production line of a lower volume vehicle.
3. The Corvette is based on providing super sports car performance at a pedestrian price. In my opinion, Corvette could add maybe a 8 or 9% increase to just over $60K to a new model, but no way will they be able to support an enlarged Bowling Green plant on a $150K car. Ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand, a continuation of the Stingray base & Z51 (GS too?) at a lower price with the ME car at a higher, $100K price replacing the Z06 and soon to be released ZR1, would be logical and it mimics Corvettes direct competitor, Porsche and all their models.
10-16-2017, 09:06 PM
#31
Just Pointing out:
Un-allocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17
2019 Model Year Key dates:
Order Guide published 11/20/17
Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17
First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)
North American International Auto Show 1/20/2018 - 1/28/2018
Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
I don't think we're going to see the ZR1 until NAIAS. We might see a pre-production car, but the specs and details under the hood are not coming until next year.
Un-allocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17
2019 Model Year Key dates:
Order Guide published 11/20/17
Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17
First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)
North American International Auto Show 1/20/2018 - 1/28/2018
Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
I don't think we're going to see the ZR1 until NAIAS. We might see a pre-production car, but the specs and details under the hood are not coming until next year.
I wouldn't be surprised if a Caddy hybrid ME shows up at the NAIAS too.
As for the C8, I think it's another year out, showing at NAIAS of 2019.
10-16-2017, 10:48 PM
#33
16 Vettes and counting…..
GM will build 2 corvettes,
1.mid-engine
2.front engine
these will be built side-by-side,in bowling green
GM needs a halo car,and needs to build it in-house,this is why they built an a ''paint shop'' 3 times the size of the org corvette plant,,the org plant needed tons of upgrades too
1.mid-engine
2.front engine
these will be built side-by-side,in bowling green
GM needs a halo car,and needs to build it in-house,this is why they built an a ''paint shop'' 3 times the size of the org corvette plant,,the org plant needed tons of upgrades too
And you know this how?
Since you seem to have some "facts" nobody else does, please explain why they have cut the MY 2018 short? And why the need to rush the 2019 into production unchanged if the current FE model is going to continue?
I do think there will be two cars eventually built at BG, but they may not both be Corvettes.
10-16-2017, 10:53 PM
#34
16 Vettes and counting…..
Just Pointing out:
Un-allocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17
2019 Model Year Key dates:
Order Guide published 11/20/17
Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17
First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)
North American International Auto Show 1/20/2018 - 1/28/2018
Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
I don't think we're going to see the ZR1 until NAIAS. We might see a pre-production car, but the specs and details under the hood are not coming until next year.
As for the C8, I think it's another year out, showing at NAIAS of 2019. Damn shame really, since I can't afford to buy a new vette every year but I'd really be interested in the ME if it's not out of my budget. I'm sure several buyers are in the same group, waiting to see what's next now that we have a glimpse.
Un-allocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17
2019 Model Year Key dates:
Order Guide published 11/20/17
Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17
First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)
North American International Auto Show 1/20/2018 - 1/28/2018
Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
I don't think we're going to see the ZR1 until NAIAS. We might see a pre-production car, but the specs and details under the hood are not coming until next year.
As for the C8, I think it's another year out, showing at NAIAS of 2019. Damn shame really, since I can't afford to buy a new vette every year but I'd really be interested in the ME if it's not out of my budget. I'm sure several buyers are in the same group, waiting to see what's next now that we have a glimpse.
I think you're exactly right on the timeline. That gives GM another 15 months to drive us nuts with spy shots and build up the anticipation for what will be the most significant Corvette since the 1963 split window.
10-16-2017, 11:43 PM
#35
If so, I'll definitely lose interest in the ME by then.
I only have so much speculation and curiosity to spend on the car.
I only have so much speculation and curiosity to spend on the car.
10-17-2017, 02:15 AM
#36
16 Vettes and counting…..
>C7 refresh with ZR1-esque fascia, A10, etc.. as holdover until mid engine car goes into production, thereby making more resources and focus available for development of mid engine car?
>C8 development continues as front engine platform to be sold alongside mid engine yet to be named (Zora?) halo car?
It was said by someone at some time on CF that C7 would continue selling alongside mid engine car for ~2 years. As time moves forward and other manufacturers best the "meaningless" Nurburgring Nordschleife times the performance bar continues to be raised. If GM is to succeed at selling the mid engine car on the European continent they will need to address the number of legitimate or perceived negative opinions of the Corvette. IMHO this will push the MSRP of the car to ~$150K or more to offer the depth of quality, craftsmanship and refined performance of the Porsche GT2 RS at ~$200K.
I can't see GM making the mid engine car (Zora?) as THE ONLY HIGH PERFORMANCE CAR above the Camaro ZL1 or Camaro ZL1-1LE. A front engine Corvette appeals to a large demographic on performance, quality and price and I see it continuing. I could be wrong and that's of no concern to me as I'm excited to see the mid engine car move closer to reality and the performance bar raised by manufacturers year after year.
>C8 development continues as front engine platform to be sold alongside mid engine yet to be named (Zora?) halo car?
It was said by someone at some time on CF that C7 would continue selling alongside mid engine car for ~2 years. As time moves forward and other manufacturers best the "meaningless
" Nurburgring Nordschleife times the performance bar continues to be raised. If GM is to succeed at selling the mid engine car on the European continent they will need to address the number of legitimate or perceived negative opinions of the Corvette. IMHO this will push the MSRP of the car to ~$150K or more to offer the depth of quality, craftsmanship and refined performance of the Porsche GT2 RS at ~$200K. I can't see GM making the mid engine car (Zora?) as THE ONLY HIGH PERFORMANCE CAR above the Camaro ZL1 or Camaro ZL1-1LE. A front engine Corvette appeals to a large demographic on performance, quality and price and I see it continuing. I could be wrong and that's of no concern to me as I'm excited to see the mid engine car move closer to reality and the performance bar raised by manufacturers year after year.
So now the goal is to build a $150K car to maybe sell 500 or so in Europe? And put it out of range of many of the Corvette buyers who have been purchasing about 30,000 cars per year in the US? I don't think GM gives a rats *** on how many they sell in Europe. The ME is the new Corvette of the future, not some high-priced "halo" car that they don't even need. The Corvette is a model, not a brand....it already IS the halo car. They certainly don't need to introduce a high-priced version that makes the aging standard car look like yesterday's news.
It was also said by "someone at sometime" that the C7 production run would be one of the shortest in Corvette history....four or five years. I think the ME is the C8 and it will cost maybe $5-10K more the the C7 base car. IMO, it will debut at the 2019 Detroit Auto Show and go into production soon after. C7 production may or may not continue alongside the C8, but that really makes no sense since all the interest would be in the new car. Who would invest in the FE at that point? Regardless of price, it would be the "old" one.
We've seen many shots of the ME car that look near production ready. If the "real" C8 is a FE car, where are the mules or the prototypes?
Obviously, it's fun to speculate......and until some real beans get spilled, that's all we'll have for a while.
Last edited by VETTE-NV; 10-17-2017 at 02:18 AM.
10-17-2017, 09:44 AM
#37
Le Mans Master
In 2007, Motor Trend wrote the Corvette Manifesto and quoted Bob Lutz who made the vision of C7 clear. A front engine and a mid engine Corvette would be built side by side, and they wanted to transition Corvette away from Chevrolet into a more prestige brand. Naturally, Cadillac would be part of that. While Corvette often pulled from the Chevrolet parts bin pool, they'll realign to share more with Cadillac.
Corvette must pursue Porsche and Cadillac must pursue BMW/AMG. I believe Corvette has no choice but to expand on its own, offering the two sports cars, then it must co-develop an SUV with Cadillac to chase Cayenne/Macan.
I can pull posts back from years ago when I said all this was going to happen.
Corvette must pursue Porsche and Cadillac must pursue BMW/AMG. I believe Corvette has no choice but to expand on its own, offering the two sports cars, then it must co-develop an SUV with Cadillac to chase Cayenne/Macan.
I can pull posts back from years ago when I said all this was going to happen.
10-17-2017, 09:49 AM
#38
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Member Since: Oct 2011
Location: Holly Springs NC
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St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
JerriVette, Thanks, I didn't know that. That's VERY interesting. Obviously that lends credence to Cadillac having an ME car. If that happens, I hope we still get a Corvette ME car.
10-17-2017, 01:52 PM
#39
16 Vettes and counting…..
They certainly don't need a high-priced mid-engined sales failure like the Acura NSX.
Hey... I know of a very capable front mid-engined platform that may be available for some upscale Cadillac coachwork very soon. And the line is already in place at Bowling Green.
Just sayin'......
