JerriVette

Curious do you guys think the corvette c8 rear mid engine car will have composite body panels or will it use aluminum?

Do you think the Cadillac version built at bowling green will have composite or aluminum body panels?

Will the Cadillac version justify its much higher price rage with the use of tighter fitting aluminum body panels while the corvette stands with its composite panels for lower costs?

If I remember correctly a lot of Cadillac XLR and XLR v potiential buyers were turned off by the hard edge styling as I believe at the time it was coined as arts and science...but more so by the huge body panel gaps compared to aluminum sheet metal vehicles,


The composites expand and contract and so it's been said that's the reason corvettes tend to have larger panel gaps compared to the twice as expensive European completion...

Cadillac will have a harder time selling a vehicle that is not met with similiar to European type percieved quality....ie tight panel gaps..

One reason for the huge investment in the bowling green paint facility was because eurosnob competitors do have an impressive build quality appearance and Cadillac needs to meet or exceed that buyer perception...

Will these tow body panel materials be used to differentiate the two brands sufficiently and be partially used to explain away the disparity in msrp?

I have no idea....I'm just shooting the breeze..

JerriVette

People who spend big bucks on cars like their vehicles to have finely crafted aluminum body panels...

I personally prefer the composite body panels of the corvette...

They are quite durable and a tradition to corvettes ...plus I imagine they are much less expensive to produce...land yet I hope the Cadillac breathern of the rear mid engine corvette has an aluminum body ...

Just to create greater differentiation so this Cadillac offshoot holds some chance to compete with audis R8..

I want the Cadillac version to succeed in the marketplace to help fund corvette development..l


They do actually go hand in hand

MikeG37

I think it (they) will have a whole bunch of aluminum hiding under a lot of carbon fiber.

vetteman41960

I agree aluminum structure with lots of carbon fiber body panels. Lighter & stronger than aluminum.

If cost of carbon fiber has come down enough I would love to see a carbon tub with aluminum extrusions.

The only way that happens is if the C8 continues as a front mid rear wheel drive platform and the rear mid engine Zora is a 150k plus halo vehicle designed and built to show GM can build with exotic materials and produce the the most technically advanced cars of any major manufacturer.


I hope it the later of the two and GM build a true super car that has the latest in material & technology.

Front GT layout to keep entry price around 65k with performance models to fill the gap between a base Stingray and the top of line 150k plus Zora.

That way there is a Corvette to suit everyone needs and budget.

JerriVette

So none so far are of the belief that the Cadillac will use an aluminum body panel to differentiate the Cadillac mid engine Audi R8 competitor.

I would be surprised if carbon fiber is used as extensively in this mid rear engine sports car although costs have dropped dramatically.

roadbike56

This is has already been decided. The supplier of C7 body panels submitted legal documents to expand their plant so that they could provide body panels for a new GM car while continuing to supply panels for the C7. The materials for the new body panels is the same composite used on the C7.
We don't have many facts related to the ME car other than the few spy shots and this document submitted by the GM supplier. It's been a while since I read it, but there is at least one thread related to this that was on the C7 forum. I don't think it was moved to the C8 but I could be wrong. There may have been a couple of copy cat threads.

tomlink

I have no complaints regarding the body panel gaps on my C7.

LIStingray

Since the C7 has a carbon fiber hood and roof, there would be nothing preventing the supplier from adding in the hatch and fenders as carbon fiber too in a more expensive ME vehicle - in fact, that is what I expect they will do.

KnightDriveTV

The future of the brand is carbon composites. If you follow GM's joint ventures and where they put capital investment, along with what companies they consume, you can see the direction.

GM is invested pretty strongly in producing high output, lower cost carbon composite panels, as the next gen from the FRP type panels now. Also, GM is working on carbon fiber wheels.

GM and Teijin Japan have been cooperating for some time to develop processes for mass production carbon fiber parts. Many makers in the automotive world have been working to speed up the production process of carbon panels.

https://www.compositesworld.com/news...-joint-venture


Aluminum will serve the stuctural backbone of C7, but I can foresee Corvette being Chevrolets first carbon modular monocoque at some point. Mclaren has been pushing with the modular carbon structure to spread across it's brand. Keep in mind, chief engineers and that community as a whole, all know what each other are doing. It comes down to having the tech, the relationships and the opportunity (sales/demand/investment) to make it all happen.

GM generally follows a trend in their sports car division...it's to innovate, but keep it in house. They won't implant an outsourced DCT, or outsource a build like even Ford has with the GT. GM likes to keep its development in house and do so when it can spread the cost throughout the companies. GM has a lot of tech in house...battery, composites, performance, engine development, etc. They really have what it takes to continue to compete, even if they find themselves behind the big dawg VW group and German brands.

DickieDoo

In 2016, they changed the manufacturing process on the composite panels and put air bubbles inside them, the panels are almost as light as CF, but with much less cost. So if cost is a consideration, which it always is for GM, them maintaining the same body panels will be cost effective and not affect performance. There are lots of places where the mass production CF ( ie: it doesn't have to be finished to the same degree ) can be applied further. )
Look for CF RIMS !

rgregory

I really don’t care what materials they use as long as they keep it under 3200 lbs.

I would prefer stiff chassis and light chassis over a beefed up chassis to accommodate a removable roof.

See how much heavier the C7 Z06 is than the previous? It is like 400 more, much of that would be due to making it stiff enough for the removable roof.

VETTE-NV

Got a link to this thread? Could not find it via search.

JerriVette

Thanks for all the added information on corvette...

One aspect of this discussion transcends beyond the corvette and really is discussing whether GM will utilize aluminum skin body panels to differentiate the Cadillac version of the rear mid engine vehicle.

I agree the paint on the c7 was appropriate for many of us corvette enthusiasts...it was the Cadillac buyer shopping the XLR that found complaints....same for the required body gaps due to the shrinking and expansion of composite body panels due to changes in temperatures.

I really was just shooting the breeze and suggesting...that beyond the engine differentiation and possible suspension tuning. To differentiate the two rear mid engine sports cars from Chevrolet and Cadillac...

Could aluminum body panels be used in the Cadillac version to A) deliver a more upscale paint finish and b) narrow body panel gaps...

Neither of which ever bothered me but I do recall Cadillac or Mercedes SL buyers were put off on the last joint venture attempt from Cadillac and Chevrolet when the XLR came out in 2004..

I would imagine bolting up aluminum body panels to a Cadillac rear mid engine sports car in bowling green could be easily done and still leaving corvette the composite body panel of its heritage ..

I personally dig the composite body panels of my corvettes..

These things take a licking and polish up good as new...(within reason of course)

I don't want to see the c8 move away from composite body panels...

I'm just looking for ways or possible ways Cadillac can differentiate there sports cars...

I already believe Cadillac Will get the usual heavy bulkier more complicated and expensive DOHC twin turbo motor while corvette will stay with the lighter, simplier, more compact, more powerful and of course less expensive LT1 making 500 hp and a supercharged LT4 and
Lt5 making the big numbers ...

I hope cadillacs more expensive aluminum skin and ridiculous dohc TT allow profit taking on the Cadillac version so our beloved corvette can stay relatively affordable as it is now...

We don't need any stinking dohc motors...we don't need any stinking aluminum body panels...

Just give us a relatively inexpensive to produce, purchase and maintain ohv v8 and our composite body panels and we are good to go...

Keep the price americans can easily afford as has been done for decades and we have our supercar slayer just as we've always had..

Just this time with a rear mid engine place,ent instead of a front mid engine place,ent...

I don't expect the price to just at all..

Just the usual few points for prosperity's sake...

With a dedicated chassis since it's inception not to mention sharing of bowling green and old GM footing a large portion of the original R & D paid for by old GM before the bankruptcy...

There is no reason to see huge price increases on a base 500hp LT1 rear mid engine corvette

Let Cadillac fund the bowling green plant expansion or platform changes as Cadillac did for the XLR back in 2004....and charge it's luxury brand customers as they see fit...

No one is going to buy the Cadillac version in quantity anyway...

GM s effort to turn Cadillac into Audi is a fine goal....and I'm sure the Cadillac version will kick the Audi R8 s butt...but Audi is charging I think 180 grand...

Acuras new NSX is a royal dud in the marketplace ..starting at 150 grand and topping out around 200...

Nobody is buying that overpriced Acura hybrid slug..

People don't want v6 s...and they don't want overweight hybrid combos...and they don't want weird grills...

Acura went so far as to have testing done at high altitudes against naturally aspirated competitors to get some you tube buzz on its sports car that's not selling in the marketplace..

Dud, dud, dud...

People are buying the mclaren 570 though and the new convertible version of the 570 is pretty bad @ss..

I fully expect to see the removable roof on the mclaren on the next gen mid rear engine corvette,,,

I want one bad

JoesC5

Some info from the company that supplies the Corvette's body panels...

"It{composite} also offers reduced costs at all volumes – and for production volumes under 150,000, tooling costs for composites can be as much as 50 to 70 percent less than those for stamping steel or aluminum."

JoesC5

I don't have a link, but I do remember reading the press release about the supplier's plant expansion to make the new panels.

EDIT: Not the original that I read, but this pertains to the press release....From the news release...http://cars.forumsee.com/a/m/s/p12-1...-schedule.html

"CSP could be awarded ?two significant product lines? that would launch in 2019, Reid said. The first line would be body panels for the new generation of Corvettes. The body panels now being made in Huntington are for the current C7 Corvette; Reid says the plant is working to win the right to manufacture body panels for the eighth generation of the sports car."

"Once production of the C7 body panels ends, he said, that space would be used for the second new line ? a line Reid said is still secret,"

Note: Maybe the mid engine car panels produced on the second line after the C7 expires??????, but after the first production line is up and running in 2019 for the C8.

I think that that pretty well gives us an indication of the material that will be used for the C8's body panels.

EDIT #2... I found the original that I read...

"Originally Posted by Huntington County Tab
Common council hears that CSP in running for two new lines!

A Huntington manufacturing facility is in the running to gain two new production lines that would see the plant nearly double in size and, its manager says, solidify its position in the community for years to come.
On Tuesday, Feb. 9, the Huntington Common Council took steps that will eventually allow it to provide some financial assistance to help make that become reality.

The council, as it does every two years, passed a resolution preliminarily designating specific areas in Huntington – generally areas zoned for business and industry – as economic revitalization areas (ERAs). Following a public hearing on Feb. 23, the council will be asked to give final approval to the ERAs – paving the way to continue to grant tax abatements for growing companies.

One of those companies will likely be Continental Structural Plastics, which makes body panels for Corvettes. The plant's manager, Jerry Reid, and the executive director of Huntington County Economic Development, Mark Wickersham, came before the council to explain as much of the company's plans as they could.

CSP could be awarded “two significant product lines” that would launch in 2019, Reid said. The first line would be body panels for the new generation of Corvettes. The body panels now being made in Huntington are for the current C7 Corvette; Reid says the plant is working to win the right to manufacture body panels for the eighth generation of the sports car.

The current model would continue to be manufactured for two years after production of the new model begins, Reid said, necessitating the addition of 110,000 to 130,000 square feet to the current 165,000 square feet of manufacturing space.
“We want to expand the facility so we can make both at the same time,” he said.

Once production of the C7 body panels ends, he said, that space would be used for the second new line – a line Reid said is still secret, but would be a new introduction to the market. The entire project would increase CSP's work force from 323 to about 480, he said. The jobs pay in the range of $15 to $16 an hour, he said.

“It's kind of a game changer,” Reid said, adding that it would provide stability for the Huntington plant into the future. “We will be looked at as one of the flagships in the company.”

The company would want to start construction of the addition as soon as possible, Reid said, probably in late spring or early summer. But CSP wouldn't generate any revenue from that investment for several years, he said.
That's where the tax abatement – which is made possible by the renewal of designated economic revitalization areas – comes into play, Wickersham explained.

In the past, tax abatements were traditionally granted for 10 years. Property taxes on a company's new buildings or equipment were phased in over the 10 years, beginning at zero and going up incrementally until the full assessment was paid at the end of the decade. Throughout the period, the company continues to pay the full amount of property taxes on the buildings and equipment in place before the expansion.

CSP is currently paying about $78,000 a year in property taxes, Reid said; with the addition of CEDIT and LOIT paid by employees, CSP generates about $155,000 a year in revenue for the city.
“That does not stop,” Wickersham said.

What would change, he said, is the way taxes on the new space and new equipment would be phased in. Under a new state statute, the city can grant a tax abatement with a phase-in schedule tailored to the project under consideration. For example, Wickersham said, the council could allow the company to pay no property taxes for the first five years, and then begin phasing in the taxes. Wickersham said CSP would benefit from a more aggressive abatement schedule.

Although CSP has not yet officially requested a tax abatement from the city, Wickersham said both the state of Indiana and Huntington County are offering incentives to convince the company's Auburn Hills, MI, headquarters to place the project in Huntington."


PS- Looks like an old man is better at using these new fangled computers than the "wet behind the ears" youngsters on this forum.

JerriVette

Joe...your last comment is coming across quite condemsending unjustly so but I do thank you for contributing to this thread.

Based off your input in this thread it does look as though the front engine c7 will as many have said before will continue for two years. That's great news for those that love front mid engine designs.

The second but if news in the article is that the new Cadillac rear mid engine product off shoot of the c8 will also be made of composites..

I'm disappointed as I would have preferred the more expensive Cadillac to be made of aluminum for its snob appeal to those who shop German brands for supposed status ...not to mention differiating that Cadillac sports car competitor for the R8 ...

I guess we can interpret or hope that the snob appeal for euro trash will get their dohc twin turbo motor I. The Cadillac version of the c8 so they can justify its higher price tag...

Condescending snobbery is a euro trash owner realm where most decent human being corvette owners just want the all out performance and prefer the low cost lightweight compact lt engine line powerplants ..

Thanks Joe for your continued participation, even if you do it behind a computer in a condescending and rude manner, I'm sure it is not your intent and just comes across that way because we are using typed words where there is no inflection of voice etc.

VETTE-NV

Well, Joe, you have nothing but time to waste to look for stuff. I still have to be productive for several more years before I retreat into my cave, bitter and angry.

But thanks for finding that!

JoesC5

I also have a pretty good memory(for being 75) so I knew what to look for when doing a search. Only took a few minutes for me to read the original news article when it was first published, and then to file it away in my feeble mind, and then retrieve it and then do a search on my computer for the link, just for you. LOL.

Maybe if you were as productive as I was during my youth you could be retired to your man cave instead of working. I semi-retired at age 45, as a very happy man. Still am happy, but I do get fed up with the derogatory "old man" **** that is thrown at the "senior citizens" on this forum.

I have survived an unsymmetrical dimethyl hydrazine spill on my person when in the Air Force, survived 4 heart attacks, had open heart surgery and am a cancer survivor.

I earned my afternoon naps.

But I have slowed down some. The last time I had my Z06 at over 160 MPH on a track was when I was a young 70 years old.

VETTE-NV

You know what, Joe? Good for you. I hope I have as much energy when I'm 75. I certainly hope you don't take anything that is thrown at you personally. This is just a time wasting car forum where everyone is faceless. To me, it's just a distraction where I can hopefully pickup some useful info about my car and have some fun.

Now go take your nap.

JoesC5