C8 and the future of the Corvette
01-08-2018, 03:28 PM
#121
Safety Car
Unless every political posts stops, we can be assured that the moderators will properly close this thread — as they have others that have gone off the rails.
Have a political perspective, please post here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ontroversy-88/
Have a political perspective, please post here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ontroversy-88/
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01-08-2018, 03:36 PM
#122
Safety Car
The climate change they were truly referring to was Political Climate.
If the issue were truly environmental alone, a better strategy would be to bring back the weeping Indian to help guild or guilt the world into striving for clean(r) water and air. To me, pollution control is more needed and attainable than wide spread "clean" energy for the near future...sure, it is inevitable and needed and will be welcome, but you can't do it over night. I think they started in the right direction decades ago and lost the will or demand somewhere along the way, probibly when they "found" more-cheaper oil.
We must invest and encourage new forms of energy, but this is done best by consumer demand rather than GOV mandate simply because of the political component.
Exciting breakthroughs in energy are very close. Glass batteries and molten salt reactors which may make nuclear energy much safer and cleaner and hydrogen potential.
The future is bright... if we can make it there...
If the issue were truly environmental alone, a better strategy would be to bring back the weeping Indian to help guild or guilt the world into striving for clean(r) water and air. To me, pollution control is more needed and attainable than wide spread "clean" energy for the near future...sure, it is inevitable and needed and will be welcome, but you can't do it over night. I think they started in the right direction decades ago and lost the will or demand somewhere along the way, probibly when they "found" more-cheaper oil.
We must invest and encourage new forms of energy, but this is done best by consumer demand rather than GOV mandate simply because of the political component.
Exciting breakthroughs in energy are very close. Glass batteries and molten salt reactors which may make nuclear energy much safer and cleaner and hydrogen potential.
The future is bright... if we can make it there...
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
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RoketRdr (01-12-2018)
01-08-2018, 04:59 PM
#123
Race Director
Who's we? There is much cheap oil, gas and coal, enough for everybody for 100s of years to come. I don't want the Government (IE: my tax paying money) going to crony industry's such as ethanol, electric cars, windmills, solar energy and the likes of Musk and Fisker looting us, let alone all the other subsidized industries we have.
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
Time to end those subsidies now except they have a lobby organization that literally controls americas energy policy..
01-08-2018, 05:29 PM
#124
The future
Hello everyone.Concerning age of the average buyer.A large factor for me was the lack of back seat..Had to wait impatiently for my kids to grow up!.I' ve wanted one since I was old enough to build model cars.I'm sure Boxster/Cayman are the same.Sexy car desire will never dissapear
01-08-2018, 07:16 PM
#125
Burning Brakes
Who's we? There is much cheap oil, gas and coal, enough for everybody for 100s of years to come. I don't want the Government (IE: my tax paying money) going to crony industry's such as ethanol, electric cars, windmills, solar energy and the likes of Musk and Fisker looting us, let alone all the other subsidized industries we have.
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
The shift to renewable energy sources with little are no carbon footprint is both technically feasible and economically desirable - long term. One needs to prioritize where to start, however, and for a lot of reasons, transportation is a lousy place to start. The big reason is energy density. Gas is incredibly good for cars - as James May once noted in his excellent BBC series on the history of the Car, gas has 7 times the energy density of a Li-Ion battery. 7 TMES ! That means that an electric car is really NOT very energy efficient, because it requires a high fuel fraction to go anywhere. A fuel fraction which requires, usually, a lot of coal to be burned to generate the electricity to recharge the damn battery.
Considering that transportation only generates about 20% of the total CO2 emissions, it seems to me that widespread adoption of electric cars doesn't really solve the problem. Thet problem is the other 80% of CO2 generation from powerplants, industrial processes and other sources. THAT should be the focus. The widespread adoption of wind, solar, hydroelectric and affordable nuclear power for is what is required. Once these are in place, then using electricity for transportation makes sense. Until that day, electric cars only reshuffle the deck chairs on the Titanic.
01-08-2018, 07:30 PM
#126
In before the lock...
I have a few things to say on climate change and alternative fuels.
However, like Elegant said in post #121, it doesn't belong in the C8 Forum.
I have a few things to say on climate change and alternative fuels.
However, like Elegant said in post #121, it doesn't belong in the C8 Forum.
Last edited by sunsalem; 01-08-2018 at 07:30 PM.
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MikeG37 (01-08-2018)
01-09-2018, 12:45 AM
#127
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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St. Jude Donor'15
Warning to everyone....
Guys, elegant is right.....
Either the political BS stops or this thread gets closed and Winter vacations get handed out.
There are 10 year and 15 year members of this Forum who clearly don't realize that there is a political section of this Forum. That's where the political comments belong.
Fair Warning........
Either the political BS stops or this thread gets closed and Winter vacations get handed out.
There are 10 year and 15 year members of this Forum who clearly don't realize that there is a political section of this Forum. That's where the political comments belong.
Fair Warning........
01-10-2018, 08:29 PM
#128
Battery Cars = FAD
How long does your phone battery last?
Answer 2 yeasts or less.
Disposal of said Batteries will become a problem.
Electricity is not free and the Average Prius has a larger carbon footprint than my 12 MPG L76 Corvette.
Cars will NEVER drive themselves cause 1-Sensors Suck and 2-The People programming them are never gonna make a perfect program. Sited references would be: Windows, Mac, iPhone... what... do I reboot my "Intelligent Car" never gonna happen, quantum computers or not its still programmed by the average chum... AI is never gonna be like the Terminator.
I have a buddy that works in Quality at a Big 3 car company and he thinks EVERYONE is just trying to get out of their lease. So I sit in the Back of his car and say " The Controls don't work" and he discounts it... my Wife gets the same brand of car and wouldn't you know... the rear controls don't work... so this is the regime that you think is gonna deliver a self driving car??? Nope not gonna happen!
How long does your phone battery last?
Answer 2 yeasts or less.
Disposal of said Batteries will become a problem.
Electricity is not free and the Average Prius has a larger carbon footprint than my 12 MPG L76 Corvette.
Cars will NEVER drive themselves cause 1-Sensors Suck and 2-The People programming them are never gonna make a perfect program. Sited references would be: Windows, Mac, iPhone... what... do I reboot my "Intelligent Car" never gonna happen, quantum computers or not its still programmed by the average chum... AI is never gonna be like the Terminator.
I have a buddy that works in Quality at a Big 3 car company and he thinks EVERYONE is just trying to get out of their lease. So I sit in the Back of his car and say " The Controls don't work" and he discounts it... my Wife gets the same brand of car and wouldn't you know... the rear controls don't work... so this is the regime that you think is gonna deliver a self driving car??? Nope not gonna happen!
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Shaka (01-12-2018)
01-10-2018, 11:46 PM
#129
Instructor
Paul Newman was driving at 85. That means all us 65ish clutch pumpers still have 20 good years and a couple more C evolutions in us. Just sayin'...
And I personally believe electric cars are just a fad to be utterly displaced if America ever swings to the right enough to start producing petroleum in the quantities we can...
And I personally believe electric cars are just a fad to be utterly displaced if America ever swings to the right enough to start producing petroleum in the quantities we can...
Last edited by Tour18; 01-10-2018 at 11:48 PM.
01-12-2018, 01:58 AM
#130
01-12-2018, 06:06 AM
#131
Team Owner
Paul Newman was driving at 85. That means all us 65ish clutch pumpers still have 20 good years and a couple more C evolutions in us. Just sayin'...
And I personally believe electric cars are just a fad to be utterly displaced if America ever swings to the right enough to start producing petroleum in the quantities we can...
And I personally believe electric cars are just a fad to be utterly displaced if America ever swings to the right enough to start producing petroleum in the quantities we can...
01-12-2018, 06:49 AM
#132
Race Director
I am keeping my corvettes but adding electric vehicles not because of my desire to stop purchasing gasoline but rather because the electric motors are superior in power production to ICE.
The assessment that electric cars are a fad is incorrect.
Electric motors are superior to internal combustion gasoline or diesel motors...
Range and recharge are limited to a degree but with 220 to 320 mile range possible today and 1/2 hour 80 percent recharge at a supercharger the game just changed.
The assessment that electric cars are a fad is incorrect.
Electric motors are superior to internal combustion gasoline or diesel motors...
Range and recharge are limited to a degree but with 220 to 320 mile range possible today and 1/2 hour 80 percent recharge at a supercharger the game just changed.
01-12-2018, 07:47 AM
#133
below is what he really meant....
01-12-2018, 09:46 AM
#134
Safety Car
Shaka, I agree with most of your views. We have enough gas and oil in the ground to last for another 10,000 years. The danger is turning our atmosphere into that of Venus. (In fact it wouldn't be too far-fetched to imagine that Venus was once habitable, but something happened - was it excessive combustion of hydrocarbons leading to CO2 dominated atmosphere by sentient beings ? We'll never know, but we do know that the surface of Venus, our closest neighbor, is as close to Hell as Dante could have imagined and there is no interest in going there.)
The shift to renewable energy sources with little are no carbon footprint is both technically feasible and economically desirable - long term. One needs to prioritize where to start, however, and for a lot of reasons, transportation is a lousy place to start. The big reason is energy density. Gas is incredibly good for cars - as James May once noted in his excellent BBC series on the history of the Car, gas has 7 times the energy density of a Li-Ion battery. 7 TMES ! That means that an electric car is really NOT very energy efficient, because it requires a high fuel fraction to go anywhere. A fuel fraction which requires, usually, a lot of coal to be burned to generate the electricity to recharge the damn battery.
Considering that transportation only generates about 20% of the total CO2 emissions, it seems to me that widespread adoption of electric cars doesn't really solve the problem. Thet problem is the other 80% of CO2 generation from powerplants, industrial processes and other sources. THAT should be the focus. The widespread adoption of wind, solar, hydroelectric and affordable nuclear power for is what is required. Once these are in place, then using electricity for transportation makes sense. Until that day, electric cars only reshuffle the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The shift to renewable energy sources with little are no carbon footprint is both technically feasible and economically desirable - long term. One needs to prioritize where to start, however, and for a lot of reasons, transportation is a lousy place to start. The big reason is energy density. Gas is incredibly good for cars - as James May once noted in his excellent BBC series on the history of the Car, gas has 7 times the energy density of a Li-Ion battery. 7 TMES ! That means that an electric car is really NOT very energy efficient, because it requires a high fuel fraction to go anywhere. A fuel fraction which requires, usually, a lot of coal to be burned to generate the electricity to recharge the damn battery.
Considering that transportation only generates about 20% of the total CO2 emissions, it seems to me that widespread adoption of electric cars doesn't really solve the problem. Thet problem is the other 80% of CO2 generation from powerplants, industrial processes and other sources. THAT should be the focus. The widespread adoption of wind, solar, hydroelectric and affordable nuclear power for is what is required. Once these are in place, then using electricity for transportation makes sense. Until that day, electric cars only reshuffle the deck chairs on the Titanic.
01-12-2018, 11:04 AM
#135
If we could get an ME on the order of this:
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Shaka (01-12-2018)
01-12-2018, 11:52 AM
#136
Racer
Not friggin hardly!!! Do some quick research on subsidies and profit margins of industry and major retailers in this nation and you'll be in for a shock. The oil/gas industry makes one of the lowest profit margins of any sector in the country and takes far less subsidies than any other. When you're not in the industry you really shouldn't talk and spread false information.
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Rapid Fred (01-12-2018)
01-12-2018, 11:57 AM
#137
Race Director
Sorry to upset you. Still the oil companies are quite powerful in their lobbying interests.
We can agree to disagree...
I stand by my statements . Have a nice day.
We can agree to disagree...
I stand by my statements . Have a nice day.
01-12-2018, 12:46 PM
#138
Not friggin hardly!!! Do some quick research on subsidies and profit margins of industry and major retailers in this nation and you'll be in for a shock. The oil/gas industry makes one of the lowest profit margins of any sector in the country and takes far less subsidies than any other. When you're not in the industry you really shouldn't talk and spread false information.
01-12-2018, 01:19 PM
#139
Who's we? There is much cheap oil, gas and coal, enough for everybody for 100s of years to come. I don't want the Government (IE: my tax paying money) going to crony industry's such as ethanol, electric cars, windmills, solar energy and the likes of Musk and Fisker looting us, let alone all the other subsidized industries we have.
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
I have faith in the free market and the leaders of industry policed by a huge educated and God fearing middle class. GM has seen fit to invest in gas cars for the foreseeable future. Why, GM has even tried electric cars. Oil is king.
01-12-2018, 03:50 PM
#140
Race Director
In before the lock — the guy is correct. A simple Google search will get you dozens of links proving the guy’s point. Here’s a nice one as it is easy to understand and well-sourced: :https://www.aol.com/amp/2012/10/20/b...eryone-thinks/
Margin is not relevant anyway. Retailers like Amazon get remarkably rich on very low margins via massive turnover.
Back on topic — alternate-energy vehicles are inevitable. What will actually win has not been determined. Think about 1900 autos — you had steam, ICE, and electric. ICE won as the BAT of the last century. The BAT for this century tbd...
Margin is not relevant anyway. Retailers like Amazon get remarkably rich on very low margins via massive turnover.
Back on topic — alternate-energy vehicles are inevitable. What will actually win has not been determined. Think about 1900 autos — you had steam, ICE, and electric. ICE won as the BAT of the last century. The BAT for this century tbd...
