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Old 11-14-2017, 01:04 PM   #1
Nobull
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Default C8 and the future of the Corvette

I fear that the corvette may be nearing the end of the line. Before I begin let me state that I own a c7 that is my 5th corvette, and I am not a troll. Consider the following:
1. The demographics are against cars like the corvette. When you look at
the Bell curve 20 and 30 somethings are not interested in cars like the
corvette.
2. Sales of all sports cars are trending down. Corvette sales have been
flat in recent years, and it appears that most buyers like myself are
repeat buyers; it is not enticing new buyers and expanding the market.
The c7 is a phenomenal bargain for the price, but in this day and age
how many people can afford an 80,000+ toy that is expensive to
maintain and is two seater with zero practicality.
3.Now we come to the elephant in the room--the rapid and almost
exponential electrification of the auto industry. Let's face it, the
internal combustion engine is a dinosaur that was invented 200 years
ago. The concept of valves, pistons, crankshafts, etc is rapidly
becoming obsolete and is being legislated out of existence. 500-1000
mile rapid charge batteries whether they be lithium air or otherwise
now exist in the lab. Hell, even a Tesla will out accelerate a corvette.
I realize there are those among you will say that the current draw
after a few hundred yards burns the battery out, but one can certainly
see the handwriting on the wall.

I know that the concept of an electric, automatic (self drive anyone?)
seems absurd but this seems to be the way things are going. I think the c8 may be the end of the line. GM may be able to extend things a bit with the e-ray, manta ray, etc., but at the end of a 7-8 year run I sadly
doubt there will be a market for a car like the corvette except for old guys like me. If the car still does exist it may be legislated off of public roads. Replies anyone!

Last edited by Nobull; 11-14-2017 at 01:06 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:48 PM   #2
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I absolutely agree with all your statements. As you say the Corvette buyers are ageing out. A lot of us(Including Myself) have bought our last Corvette( I am 67years young). I know a great deal of folks my age are already having a difficult time getting in & out of their Vetts. If you just look at the Auto Trans Vette sales that have been sold tells a story of the ageing out of Corvette buyers, however I managed to hang on & I have M7 Z, but I am in a minority. You have got to figure that GM did not spend all that money on the Bowing Green Plant for just a paint shop & upgrading the assembly line for just the Vette, something else will be built there. My 2 cents.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:05 PM   #3
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I agree with the statements here completely.

What is interesting and not something Chevy could just up and jump into is that the expensive cars are selling better than ever. There use to just be 1 model Lambo, no McLaren and the Ferraris. Now Lambo has 2 models, McLaren has 2 models and Ferrari more than ever.

Could GM think of competing at this level I don’t think they could just due to name even if had a superior car. But maybe they are think around NSX level but a little cheaper. Who knows but the do need a demographic shift.

I am 42 and have owned a corvette since I was 21 and still have it, bought 2 C5s along the way. Having a mid engine car now I only consider another vette if they do go mid engine.

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Old 11-14-2017, 02:19 PM   #4
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Default The future of the corvette

Before we all start running around with our hair on fire and thinking the sky is falling, let's take a couple deep breaths.....

Corvette will go away IF IT DOES NOT KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES and the changing market. There will always be a market for specialty high performance cars that you have to drive yourself. You can take that to the bank!

What that car looks like, how it performs, its value in the competitive market place (when the price tag crosses the $100K+ line the competition isn't limited to just other cars), how it makes you FEEL.... will make the difference between success and failure.

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with if it has round taillights, a V8 engine, three pedals on the floor, or a tank in back for fossil fuel. It's all about relevance!

I trust that the GENERAL is paying a lot of people a lot of money to stay up late thinking about these things, and that the future of Corvette, while certainly different, will be strong for decades to come.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooold2race View Post
Before we all start running around with our hair on fire and thinking the sky is falling, let's take a couple deep breaths.....

Corvette will go away IF IT DOES NOT KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES and the changing market. There will always be a market for specialty high performance cars that you have to drive yourself. You can take that to the bank!

What that car looks like, how it performs, its value in the competitive market place (when the price tag crosses the $100K+ line the competition isn't limited to just other cars), how it makes you FEEL.... will make the difference between success and failure.

This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with if it has round taillights, a V8 engine, three pedals on the floor, or a tank in back for fossil fuel. It's all about relevance!

I trust that the GENERAL is paying a lot of people a lot of money to stay up late thinking about these things, and that the future of Corvette, while certainly different, will be strong for decades to come.
Totally agree. I for one had always admired Vettes but never really want to purchase one. That was till the information started coming out about the ME. Now I'm pumped over the prospect of a fresh clean sheet sports car. I think there are a lot of new potential customers out there in the same boat. Rehashing the past gets old after a while. Its not just Corvette that is doing it. Ford and Dodge need to come up with something fresh and new. They can only Re-Retro their cars so many times. I applaud Chevy for the clean start and can't wait to see what they do with the C8 ME!
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:40 PM   #6
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I share OP's concerns, but I wonder if they apply to more than just the Corvette. The kids these days (I'm still in my 40s, but have teenagers at home), simply don't hold the level of interest in cars that previous generations seemed to have. It's not just Corvettes. It's cars in general.

Maybe that'll change as that demographic ages a bit and figures out what independence really feels like, but I'm not sure that's a slam dunk conclusion to make.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddlaing View Post
Totally agree. I for one had always admired Vettes but never really want to purchase one. That was till the information started coming out about the ME. Now I'm pumped over the prospect of a fresh clean sheet sports car. I think there are a lot of new potential customers out there in the same boat. Rehashing the past gets old after a while. Its not just Corvette that is doing it. Ford and Dodge need to come up with something fresh and new. They can only Re-Retro their cars so many times. I applaud Chevy for the clean start and can't wait to see what they do with the C8 ME!
You completely missed my point. The potential mid engine is not a clean sheet sports car. The market is dying for cars like this. Read my post. Besides serving the ego what is gained by coming out with a car like this. It still has a reciprocating engine that is a fossil; it does't matter where the engine is located. Mid engine or not the car is rehashing the past. The market is shrinking for all these cars unless you are a professional sports player or a arab oil sheik. The CEO of GM has also said that GM
intends to phase out gasoline engine cars in the near future. GM has come close several times in the past to terminating the corvette. Look, the corvette is a limited production car with declining sales and an aging demographic. The costs to retool, and design a new mid car are
astronomical. I have seen the many pictures of what appear to be
mid engine prototypes with camo. GM does not give a damn about the enthusiast. They are a high production car company, and the only thing that matters to them are numbers and sales. This company is not stupid. Wouldn't it be ironic if ME comes out as a Cadillac? Certainly a much better demographic!
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:30 PM   #8
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NoBull, while you sing the funeral dirge of the Corvette, you can at least spell the name with a capital C.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnPoint View Post
I share OP's concerns, but I wonder if they apply to more than just the Corvette. The kids these days (I'm still in my 40s, but have teenagers at home), simply don't hold the level of interest in cars that previous generations seemed to have. It's not just Corvettes. It's cars in general.

Maybe that'll change as that demographic ages a bit and figures out what independence really feels like, but I'm not sure that's a slam dunk conclusion to make.
I am pretty young, 20, and I have a great interest in cars. I am not going to deny that car interest in young people have fallen in recent decades, but I think there are a couple specific reasons for that. For one, the young generation is having to deal will a lot more expenses at a young age than previous generations have, namely college. Trust me, I'm experiencing it right now. There are plenty of young people that like cars still, we just can't afford to buy them or even think about them because we are so far away from being able to afford one with all the tuition bills. When young people finally can afford a car, it's neither new nor an unpractical sports car. This will for sure change as we age as you pointed out in your last point. Have you looked at how big car magazine subscriptions have gotten? How about how massive the abundance of car YouTubers with tons and tons of views have gotten? How about the stereotypical Nissan gtr 9 year old fanboys? I don't like them but pretty much every JDM fan is extremely young.

Trust me, the interest is still there. As long as corvette, and all sports cars for that matter, stay relevant in propulsion (go electric) and technology (have a full self driving as a TOGGLABLE OPTION like cruise control) they will be fine.

Last edited by theboom; 11-14-2017 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobull View Post
You completely missed my point. The potential mid engine is not a clean sheet sports car. The market is dying for cars like this. Read my post. Besides serving the ego what is gained by coming out with a car like this. It still has a reciprocating engine that is a fossil; it does't matter where the engine is located. Mid engine or not the car is rehashing the past. The market is shrinking for all these cars unless you are a professional sports player or a arab oil sheik. The CEO of GM has also said that GM
intends to phase out gasoline engine cars in the near future. GM has come close several times in the past to terminating the corvette. Look, the corvette is a limited production car with declining sales and an aging demographic. The costs to retool, and design a new mid car are
astronomical. I have seen the many pictures of what appear to be
mid engine prototypes with camo. GM does not give a damn about the enthusiast. They are a high production car company, and the only thing that matters to them are numbers and sales. This company is not stupid. Wouldn't it be ironic if ME comes out as a Cadillac? Certainly a much better demographic!
Sorry don't agree they built 40,600 plus C7 corvettes in 2016 that does not equate to a dying market for these cars. Unless your chicken little! 2016 was probably the highest production year ever. This year will skewed by the plant shut down.

Change is good.

Last edited by rsinor; 11-14-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:57 PM   #11
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Just checked, in 2016 corvette sold over 40k cars. To get to that number again, you have to go back to 2007. Before that, you have to go all the way back to 1984. Other than 2016, 2007, and 1984, the only years to sell 40k or more are 1976-1981. Every other year sold FAR less than that.

Lets look at camaro. Since the 5th gen camaro was introduced in 2009 (2010 model year), it has had more sales than since 1996.

Challenger sales in 2008: 17k. Sales in 2016: 64k

Doesn't look like a shrinking market to me
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Old 11-14-2017, 05:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobull View Post
1. The demographics are against cars like the corvette. When you look at
the Bell curve 20 and 30 somethings are not interested in cars like the Corvette.
I agree cars are not the biggest thing for kids these days.
Hell, I see 20/30 somethings who have fncking skateboards instead of cars.
The kids at gas stations, parking lots, etc. comment about how much they like my car, but always say they will never be able to afford one and that's unfortunate.
Quote:
2. Sales of all sports cars are trending down. Corvette sales have been
flat in recent years, and it appears that most buyers like myself are
repeat buyers; it is not enticing new buyers and expanding the market.
The c7 is a phenomenal bargain for the price, but in this day and age
how many people can afford an 80,000+ toy that is expensive to
maintain and is two seater with zero practicality.
It's all about the lack of $$$.
Real wages have been declining for a very long time.

Neighbors don't understand how I am able to have a Z06.
OTOH, I have always had better vehicles than them.
Quote:
If the car still does exist it may be legislated off of public roads. Replies anyone!
It's not going to happen.
Just like no one is coming for your guns, no one is coming for your Vettes.

Certainly, electric is the future.
Of that, there is no doubt and I am all in favor.

Last edited by sunsalem; 11-14-2017 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:18 PM   #13
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The reasons today's youth do not gravitate towards a Corvette (or sports cars in general) is because they value social media as their way to connect where we grew up dying to get away from home and the car was the way we met up with our friends. Today they sit in the basement at mom's house and facetime with each other. Therefore, they cannot afford one or much anything else. So I don't see it as a Corvette issue specifically.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnPoint View Post
I share OP's concerns, but I wonder if they apply to more than just the Corvette. The kids these days (I'm still in my 40s, but have teenagers at home), simply don't hold the level of interest in cars that previous generations seemed to have. It's not just Corvettes. It's cars in general.

Maybe that'll change as that demographic ages a bit and figures out what independence really feels like, but I'm not sure that's a slam dunk conclusion to make.
It is not just cars these young guys have no interest in. Kids have no desire to learn to drive. I remember, as soon as I turned 15, I could not WAIT to get my license. To me a license and a car meant freedom, friends, good times, and yes GIRLS! Now fast forward to the present. Neither of my sons had any desire to learn to drive until they were in their 20s, and had no choice, since they needed to drive to get jobs and go to work. Like many others, they were content to make their "friends" on line. Actual social interaction meant little to them, and the opposite sex only mattered when they were on the other end of a game controller. I am afraid that the fast, sexy cars (and even faster sexier women) that us old guys pursued, have given way to digital anime figures wearing skimpy outfits in video games and as computer downloads...

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Old 11-14-2017, 10:47 PM   #15
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Corvette isn't going anywhere. 40,000 units sold in 2016 times $50,000
( a low estimate)each is 2 BILLION f***ing dollars!!! I'm sure the average price was much higher than 50 grand but just to give you an idea. Add together all years of 7th generation production I'm confident they paid for their tooling,development and make a boat load of profit.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIE2ME View Post
It is not just cars these young guys have no interest in. Kids have no desire to learn to drive. I remember, as soon as I turned 15, I could not WAIT to get my license. To me a license and a car meant freedom, friends, good times, and yes GIRLS! Now fast forward to the present. Neither of my sons had any desire to learn to drive until they were in their 20s, and had no choice, since they needed to drive to get jobs and go to work. Like many others, they were content to make their "friends" on line. Actual social interaction meant little to them, and the opposite sex only mattered when they were on the other end of a game controller. I am afraid that the fast, sexy cars (and even faster sexier women) that us old guys pursued, have given way to digital anime figures wearing skimpy outfits in video games and as computer downloads...
we had eight years of liberals and obama,think snowflakes will grow up,
cars will become cool again, the liberals have made the auto evil
global warming bs, but also was easier to own a vette in 1960 to 1980
still they sell 40000 corvettes a year,
society has changed, but if the company gm>goes to make liberal cars appliance cars, think there domed, think have make good product, not the aztek or saturn,
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:58 PM   #17
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Of the cars GM produces I wouldn't think the halo vehicle for Chevy is on the chopping block.

Buick LaCrosse, Chevy impala done. The Cadillac CTS and arts will be merged into one medium sized vehicle.

Corvette is safe although it will evolve as discussed into a rear mid engine sports car should be motivation to bring more people into the corvette family
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:41 AM   #18
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OP makes some good points. And most of the subsequent posts are thoughtful too, even the counterpoints. Unusual thread. Posters haven't started insulting each other yet.

Certainly younger folks are less interested in Corvettes than two or even one generation ago. Average age of buyers has obviously been increasing. My Corvette club monthly meetings typically draw about 100, and most of us look like we probably live in a retirement home. But many of us have C7s, so we are good customers for GM.

In my community, Teslas sell WAY better than Corvettes. Corvette is almost the opposite of an impressive or halo car. In fact, at some gatherings, if someone asks what kind of car I have, I say Chevrolet and hope they don't ask anything more. Try not to flame me here; I'm just trying to avoid the scenario where the person says something asinine and I get visibly angry.
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Old 11-15-2017, 02:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralphroadster View Post
we had eight years of liberals and obama,think snowflakes will grow up,
cars will become cool again, the liberals have made the auto evil
global warming bs, but also was easier to own a vette in 1960 to 1980
still they sell 40000 corvettes a year,
society has changed, but if the company gm>goes to make liberal cars appliance cars, think there domed, think have make good product, not the aztek or saturn,
Thank you for going off topic and sharing your political POV that nobody asked for.
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Old 11-15-2017, 05:55 AM   #20
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I don't believe the Corvette is going away, but it is going to change. We'll have to wait and see what happens when they roll out that ZR1, but it would appear to me that GM wants to make the Corvette a true supercar. In that, if it's going to increase in terms of power and all around performance, they will eventually have to go mid engine to make all that work. At that point, it is no longer going to be the mass produced performance bargain sports car that we have known it to be. While the price may stay well under the Euro cars that chase it around the track, it's still going to be out of reach of many that can buy a Corvette today. Not to mention losing the group of folks that prefer the front engine chassis.

Coming up on the Corvette's heals in this respect is the Camaro. The Camaro is no longer the young person's wanna be Vette. It has developed into a true sports car. The cost of that is it now being in a price point about where today's Corvette buyer will be looking when the Corvette migrates northward in the automotive market place. We also may very well see yet another two seat variant from Cadillac, something much more in the image and likeness of the Corvette, unlike the past attempt being the XLR.

GM is going to hold on to these v8 torque monsters as long as they can. They will be more expensive, and they will make less of them. In order to do that, it will be the daily drivers and fleet vehicles that get the electric motors and hybrid set ups to offset having these showroom magnets around. These cars mean a lot more to GM than just a big ticket item. The main job of a halo car is sell more Chevrolets. Combine that with having the ability to implement more cutting edge tech that will eventually find it's way into the mainstream cars.

The Corvette isn't going away, it's just moving to the next level, and the cars just under it, are moving up to fill the void.
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