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Old 12-27-2017, 10:38 PM
  #361  
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^ This has not been my experience at all. My 151K mile Audi drives like it did brand new...no squeaks or rattles. Suspension and body are as solid since day one. All of my GM cars started to rattle like a bucket of bolts by 30K miles....whether Corvette, Camaro, GTO.
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:40 PM
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Such a fantastic thread with awesome conversations lol. On one note, who else will jump off a building if this whole time it is actually a Cadillac instead of a Corvette? I thought the Cadillac ME was cancelled? I am planning to save some cash for the year ahead for the mid engine C8, but know I am started to get a bit worried. I wish GM would just give us some solid information..... damn!
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:46 PM
  #363  
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Originally Posted by f-16pilotTX View Post
On one note, who else will jump off a building if this whole time it is actually a Cadillac instead of a Corvette?
Not me.
Myself and others long ago predicted it would be badged first as a Caddy.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:25 AM
  #364  
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Originally Posted by Kurac
^ This has not been my experience at all. My 151K mile Audi drives like it did brand new...no squeaks or rattles. Suspension and body are as solid since day one. All of my GM cars started to rattle like a bucket of bolts by 30K miles....whether Corvette, Camaro, GTO.
My mom's 2004 BMW (and most newer BMW's) have lots of "disposable" parts. Same with Mercs. Audi has a stretch of good cars but the new ones are trash.

But you gotta compare cars from the modern era. US cars pre 2005 were pretty bad, trucks and SUVs though, bulletproof.

I worked on the supplier side 2005-2013, and I can say as a FACT each company was doing the same **** behind the scenes.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:27 AM
  #365  
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Originally Posted by f-16pilotTX
Such a fantastic thread with awesome conversations lol. On one note, who else will jump off a building if this whole time it is actually a Cadillac instead of a Corvette? I thought the Cadillac ME was cancelled? I am planning to save some cash for the year ahead for the mid engine C8, but know I am started to get a bit worried. I wish GM would just give us some solid information..... damn!
Not me. I think it should be a Cadillac.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:44 AM
  #366  
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We will know in 382 days (Jan, 13, 2019 @ NAIAS).

It will be a Corvette -- so several insiders have said (well at least they were talking until 10 days ago). But at least one said, "do not rule out a Cadillac version further down the road."
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:50 AM
  #367  
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Originally Posted by elegant View Post
We will know in 382 days (Jan, 13, 2019 @ NAIAS).

It will be a Corvette -- so several insiders have said (well at least they were talking until 10 days ago). But at least one said, "do not rule out a Cadillac version further down the road."
Elegant, please feel free to chime in on my recent new thread post regarding this topic.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:13 AM
  #368  
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I believe the Cadillac version if De Nysschen has his way (if he has any credibility left within top GM management after the utter disaster the Cadillac lineup has experienced) will get the user Cadillac rear mid engine halo model to offer the fine leather and carbon fiber interiors so many seem to want to pay for Here on this forum....

I for one don't care about the softness of the door cards or dash panel...

I tend not to caress my cars interior panels and rather just enjoy slamming the gears, mashing the throttle hanging the tail and laughing all the time...

To me and to many American consumers that's what we look for in corvettes...

Sure double the price of the average American car sold in America (33 grand versus 66 grand) isn't quadruple the average cost of a modern car so,d in America but it has its place in GM s marketing scheme for Chevrolet...

Of course it's been said the Zr1 and Z06 are enticing...and they are..but has anyone noticed how the average z06 pricing has dropped back down in transaction pricing to the low to mid seventies...again ...very close to just double the average passenger vehicle sold in America...which is the low to mid thirties..

That's the market segment of corvettes...and where the engine lies is not the deciding factor...

Value and what consumers see after the first years initial demand or so is where pricing lands

I don't see the unit volume success of elevating pricing that would mimic the Audi R8 ..

Cadillac might be able do it because their proposed model shares so much of its cost structure with corvette

Just my opinion.

Last edited by JerriVette; 12-28-2017 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:08 AM
  #369  
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Originally Posted by Kurac View Post
^ This has not been my experience at all. My 151K mile Audi drives like it did brand new...no squeaks or rattles. Suspension and body are as solid since day one. All of my GM cars started to rattle like a bucket of bolts by 30K miles....whether Corvette, Camaro, GTO.

Which Audi?

I've owned plenty of Audi's and the suspension bushings usually last 40-50 k.

It is the double independent upper/lower A arm design they used to use, not sure if they still do. You could turn the wheels almost 90 degree's but it destroyed the bushings in short order.

That high degree of turn also tears up CV joints which means front axle shaft replacements.

If your doing 50K a year in highway miles sure but not in regular city driving.
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:45 AM
  #370  
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Originally Posted by f-16pilotTX
Such a fantastic thread with awesome conversations lol. On one note, who else will jump off a building if this whole time it is actually a Cadillac instead of a Corvette? I thought the Cadillac ME was cancelled? I am planning to save some cash for the year ahead for the mid engine C8, but know I am started to get a bit worried. I wish GM would just give us some solid information..... damn!
I think that would be a positive development.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:04 AM
  #371  
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Originally Posted by Kurac View Post
^ This has not been my experience at all. My 151K mile Audi drives like it did brand new...no squeaks or rattles. Suspension and body are as solid since day one. All of my GM cars started to rattle like a bucket of bolts by 30K miles....whether Corvette, Camaro, GTO.
Same with my 19 year old Mercedes. No squeaks or rattles, etc and solid as it was in 1998.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:31 AM
  #372  
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Originally Posted by noone View Post
which audi?

I've owned plenty of audi's and the suspension bushings usually last 40-50 k.

It is the double independent upper/lower a arm design they used to use, not sure if they still do. You could turn the wheels almost 90 degree's but it destroyed the bushings in short order.

That high degree of turn also tears up cv joints which means front axle shaft replacements.

If your doing 50k a year in highway miles sure but not in regular city driving.


2013 a4
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:50 AM
  #373  
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post
I believe the Cadillac version if De Nysschen has his way (if he has any credibility left within top GM management after the utter disaster the Cadillac lineup has experienced) will get the user Cadillac rear mid engine halo model to offer the fine leather and carbon fiber interiors so many seem to want to pay for Here on this forum....

I for one don't care about the softness of the door cards or dash panel...

I tend not to caress my cars interior panels and rather just enjoy slamming the gears, mashing the throttle hanging the tail and laughing all the time...

To me and to many American consumers that's what we look for in corvettes...

Sure double the price of the average American car sold in America (33 grand versus 66 grand) isn't quadruple the average cost of a modern car so,d in America but it has its place in GM s marketing scheme for Chevrolet...

Of course it's been said the Zr1 and Z06 are enticing...and they are..but has anyone noticed how the average z06 pricing has dropped back down in transaction pricing to the low to mid seventies...again ...very close to just double the average passenger vehicle sold in America...which is the low to mid thirties..

That's the market segment of corvettes...and where the engine lies is not the deciding factor...

Value and what consumers see after the first years initial demand or so is where pricing lands

I don't see the unit volume success of elevating pricing that would mimic the Audi R8 ..

Cadillac might be able do it because their proposed model shares so much of its cost structure with corvette

Just my opinion.
Jerry,

Good points and I was following you up to the "mimic..volume R8 part"..

likely misunderstood.. but R8 sells average 40 cars a month.. not sure I would call that volume? Even at 300K a piece (if it is that much..) 2000+ @80K is way better..

Last edited by Telepierre; 12-28-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:43 PM
  #374  
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post

I for one don't care about the softness of the door cards or dash panel...

I tend not to caress my cars interior panels and rather just enjoy slamming the gears, mashing the throttle hanging the tail and laughing all the time...

To me and to many American consumers that's what we look for in corvettes...

Sure double the price of the average American car sold in America (33 grand versus 66 grand) isn't quadruple the average cost of a modern car so,d in America but it has its place in GM s marketing scheme for Chevrolet...

Of course it's been said the Zr1 and Z06 are enticing...and they are..but has anyone noticed how the average z06 pricing has dropped back down in transaction pricing to the low to mid seventies...again ...very close to just double the average passenger vehicle sold in America...which is the low to mid thirties..

That's the market segment of corvettes...and where the engine lies is not the deciding factor...


Just my opinion.
I slam gears and track my ZR1 and my Z06's before it. I hate the interior. I am fortunate to be able to buy an ME when it comes out. If the interior is on par with the C7 then I will move on to something else like a 458.
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:09 PM
  #375  
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Originally Posted by Eric Reeves View Post
I slam gears and track my ZR1 and my Z06's before it. I hate the interior. I am fortunate to be able to buy an ME when it comes out. If the interior is on par with the C7 then I will move on to something else like a 458.
"Don't let your eyes foul your confort"

Ancient Chinese Proverb

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Old 12-28-2017, 01:59 PM
  #376  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
I think that would be a positive development.
Amen to that.

Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Even at 300K a piece (if it is that much..)
The Audi R8 has a MSRP of $165k:
https://www.google.com/search?q=msrp...oe=&gws_rd=ssl

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Old 12-28-2017, 05:06 PM
  #377  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
Same with my 19 year old Mercedes. No squeaks or rattles, etc and solid as it was in 1998.
You won't get that out of one built after 2005. Mercs went to crap when they owned Chrysler. They sorta recovered, but they aren't the same.

German and Japanese cars of the 1990's are the pinnacle of bulletproof. Mostly due to overdesigning parts and not caring about costs. Once they got cost conscious like the US companies quality suffered.

US makers still have the toughest "durability" tests though. That doesn't equate to quality, but it equates to part life. These things while related are not the same thing. A quality part is one which doesn't fail at all (squeaks or rattles) a durable part is one that doesn't fail in FUCNTION, and function alone.
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:30 PM
  #378  
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Originally Posted by LT1 Z51 View Post
US makers still have the toughest "durability" tests though. That doesn't equate to quality, but it equates to part life. These things while related are not the same thing. A quality part is one which doesn't fail at all (squeaks or rattles) a durable part is one that doesn't fail in FUCNTION, and function alone.
I don't follow, if it squeaks, rattles, or falls apart it is inferior. I don't see that US makers have tougher durability tests. I don't even think there is such a thing as a US maker anymore. As time passes by and we get even more connected/globalized cars are more alike than different. All cars are a hodge-podge of 3rd party parts.

This picture says it all:


http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...rolet-corvette
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Old 12-28-2017, 09:42 PM
  #379  
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Originally Posted by SBC_and_a_stick
I don't follow, if it squeaks, rattles, or falls apart it is inferior. I don't see that US makers have tougher durability tests. I don't even think there is such a thing as a US maker anymore. As time passes by and we get even more connected/globalized cars are more alike than different. All cars are a hodge-podge of 3rd party parts.

This picture says it all:


http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...rolet-corvette
US maker as in primary engineering center and home base. Chrysler (the division) is still a US firm (owned by a Dutch company). Ford and GM are based in the US (in many facets).

BTW, you just showed that OEMs use global suppliers with that picture. Which is a big Duh. But irrelevant to what a "US Carmaker" is.

But back to what I meant by durability. Durability is does it work. Not is it perfect. But does the part function as intended. US makers have the hardest durability tests. I hear this from my suppliers and I know it from my time as a supplier. What does this exactly mean?

1. More hot cold cycles on electronics.
2. Harder humidity tests on electronics
3. Tougher vehicle tests, US cars can hit a giant pothole and survive (Corvette actually gets a deviation for PotHole3 at GM). A 911 cracks a tie rod on PotHole2.
4. Higher loads and tougher strength tests on mechanical parts.
5. Tougher and longer vehicle life tests, parts are subjugated to what some suppliers call unrealistic usage profiles.
6. Harsher suspension and bushing tests
7. Tests to part failure. Sometimes over 2 vehicle lives of accelerated durability.
8. Salt and sand testing while you wouldn't believe.

If you looked at the European divisions of Ford and GM in 2000, they couldn't pass the US tests. I've had German colleagues tell me that no roads are this rough, until they come here.

Quality is being able to control the mean and standard deviation of your mass produced parts. Not the durability of your design. Durability is a design thing, quality is a manufacturing thing. If your part squeaks and rattles it's not because it isn't durable, it's because the standard deviation during manufacturing stinks.

People confuse bad design with bad production. They are not the same.
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:43 AM
  #380  
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Originally Posted by LT1 Z51 View Post
You won't get that out of one built after 2005. Mercs went to crap when they owned Chrysler. They sorta recovered, but they aren't the same.

German and Japanese cars of the 1990's are the pinnacle of bulletproof. Mostly due to overdesigning parts and not caring about costs. Once they got cost conscious like the US companies quality suffered.

US makers still have the toughest "durability" tests though. That doesn't equate to quality, but it equates to part life. These things while related are not the same thing. A quality part is one which doesn't fail at all (squeaks or rattles) a durable part is one that doesn't fail in FUCNTION, and function alone.

My 2013 SL550 was a complete piece of ****. Sold it after six months, ten times in the shop, and what would have been $22K in repair bills if it was out of warranty. The kicker was the plated faux aluminum door handle. FAUX.....on a $130K car.
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