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Wait a second...that's just not true. I love Corvettes but I don't live in this world where I go around believing they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Every generation of Corvette (well maybe not the C1) has been a performance darling in one way or another. That's the Corvette's job. But it has never been a 'giant killer'. Throwing a supercharger or a few more ponies at a car and getting a slightly better time does not connotate to ruler of all. If Corvette is beating Ferrari in production performance numbers, it is because Ferrari can't be bothered to compete. There are many factors that go into why car companies do what they do.
Ford has rarely competed with GM on the horsepower front because generally Ford's cars sell better and arguably their designs resonate better with the public. As much as we love Corvette, GM does not have a good track record for making pretty cars. Ex: Monte Carlo, Sunfire, Aztek...(all the Lincolns).
GM has always played a game of oneupsmanship with with Ford. If Ford makes a car with 400 HP, the General makes their competitor with 425 HP.
Dodge...well, Dodge is Dodge. They are the AMC of modern cars. They make a few pretty designs and throw a lot of horsepower at them but at the end of the day, it may be a flying piece of poop. Outside of the Viper, they still haven't quite figured out how to make a car go around a turn. I say this with all the love in the world.
Ferrari, can stomp all over GM whenever it wants. It is, and has been for several decades, the true King of the Hill. It's cars sell exactly as how Ferrari wants. When a young pup such as GM or Ford try to take its crown, Ferrari makes a better, faster machine, that is not only the fastest kid on the block, but also a work of art.
The only real contender for Ferrari's title in modern cars is McLaren. It makes exceptional machines that are amazing fast in all directions and sometimes art. Time will tell if they can keep it up.
The point of all this is just to say, Corvette is great, but at the price point the General wants to sell them, it is nearly impossible for it to be a 'giant slayer'. Too many corners have to be cut in quality, too many compromises made in design for the sake of mass marketability, and not enough money thrown at making the engines the best in the world.
I agree Corvette will never compete with Ferrari as an exotic car, it just won't happen. But they can match 9x% of the performance for 1/2-1/3rd the price.
However, Ferrari cannot produce a car that can outperform the Corvette at the same price point, period. They don't have the purchasing power to come close. Nor can Porsche, BMW or Mercedes. This is the reason most of us regular dudes are big fans.
The two companies are impressive but for very different reasons.
I agree Corvette will never compete with Ferrari as an exotic car, it just won't happen. But they can match 9x% of the performance for 1/2-1/3rd the price.
However, Ferrari cannot produce a car that can outperform the Corvette at the same price point, period. They don't have the purchasing power to come close. Nor can Porsche, BMW or Mercedes. This is the reason most of us regular dudes are big fans.
The two companies are impressive but for very different reasons.
I don't think Ferrari has any desire to produce a car that will outperform Corvette at the same price point.
Personally, I don't buy Corvettes because they are a budget sports car. I buy Corvettes because I like them. If I could afford Ferraris, I would buy those too. They both hold their charm and joy. Corvettes haven't been for 'regular' dudes for a while though. They are made in Bowling Green, KY. How many people do you think in Bowling Green, KY are buying brand new C7s? Maybe 1 in a 1,000...maybe 1 in 10,000. There's nothing regular about that. At the same time, plenty of guys are buying used Corvettes and new Camaros. Those are regular guy cars these day. I think it's fair to say that brand new Corvettes have always been outside the price range of 'regular' guys. If there is a price tier to cars, with a base level Kia being a 1 and a Bugatti Veyron being a 10...the average new Ferrari would be somewhere around an 8, and a new Corvette would be a 6. Not far behind really. Ex: New ZR-1 price compared to Ferrari California.
Read the post very slowly word for word then think about it and read it again maybe you'll understand what it says
Well I read your post slowly twice and both times called BS. If you read these forums often enough you will eventually see several people who used to be Porsche owners switch to Corvette and Corvette owners who have switched to Porsche.
I don't think Ferrari has any desire to produce a car that will outperform Corvette at the same price point.
Personally, I don't buy Corvettes because they are a budget sports car. I buy Corvettes because I like them. If I could afford Ferraris, I would buy those too. They both hold their charm and joy. Corvettes haven't been for 'regular' dudes for a while though. They are made in Bowling Green, KY. How many people do you think in Bowling Green, KY are buying brand new C7s? Maybe 1 in a 1,000...maybe 1 in 10,000. There's nothing regular about that. At the same time, plenty of guys are buying used Corvettes and new Camaros. Those are regular guy cars these day. I think it's fair to say that brand new Corvettes have always been outside the price range of 'regular' guys. If there is a price tier to cars, with a base level Kia being a 1 and a Bugatti Veyron being a 10...the average new Ferrari would be somewhere around an 8, and a new Corvette would be a 6. Not far behind really. Ex: New ZR-1 price compared to Ferrari California.
The average guy these days has a 45-50k f150 as a daily driver. A 55-60k Corvette (street price) is absolutely a regulars guys car. I don't know anyone with 180k+ Ferrari, they probably wouldnt associate with me, nor would I want to with them, but many of my neighbors have Corvettes.
The average guy these days has a 45-50k f150 as a daily driver. A 55-60k Corvette (street price) is absolutely a regulars guys car. I don't know anyone with 180k+ Ferrari, they probably wouldnt associate with me, nor would I want to with them, but many of my neighbors have Corvettes.
And that would be on the cheap side for most new trucks now a days if they have any options at all
I don't think Ferrari has any desire to produce a car that will outperform Corvette at the same price point.
Personally, I don't buy Corvettes because they are a budget sports car. I buy Corvettes because I like them. If I could afford Ferraris, I would buy those too. They both hold their charm and joy. Corvettes haven't been for 'regular' dudes for a while though. They are made in Bowling Green, KY. How many people do you think in Bowling Green, KY are buying brand new C7s? Maybe 1 in a 1,000...maybe 1 in 10,000. There's nothing regular about that. At the same time, plenty of guys are buying used Corvettes and new Camaros. Those are regular guy cars these day. I think it's fair to say that brand new Corvettes have always been outside the price range of 'regular' guys. If there is a price tier to cars, with a base level Kia being a 1 and a Bugatti Veyron being a 10...the average new Ferrari would be somewhere around an 8, and a new Corvette would be a 6. Not far behind really. Ex: New ZR-1 price compared to Ferrari California.
All truths in this post but I think (based of previous posts) there are missing underlying sport cars market dynamics worth considering.
1.
I don't think Ferrari has any desire to produce a car that will outperform Corvette at the same price point.
Whilst omitting it is not a question of "desire" but manufacturing capability. Truth is Ferrari cannot produce a car that will outperform Corvette at the same price point. And I am not talking just speed/track performance. I am talking durability, maintainability, comfort, and so on. Believe it or not there is a lot of technological know how behind the crafting of a Corvette daily driver were 100K miles is a given..
2. Been brilliantly stated before by (I think) "bewright" in other threads..For all the "branding" tradition Ferrari is still able to bring to the table, brilliantly exploited by a top notch design team....their position as "kings" in the "exotic" segment is currently being challenged on different fronts.. there are both the bottom up (see Corvette & "others") and "peers" ala McClaren to contend with and please consider McClaren started making road cars as late as 1993 and as been posting market share gains in the exotic space of double digits versus Ferraris “slow” 2% annual goings.. a classic case where a "name" can only take you so far in this game…
Winning F1 may help...but alas we are talking ten years ago..
If "Ford's cars sell better" then perhaps you could explain the following 2017 US Market Share data (from the Wall Street Journal):
GM sold 19.2% more cars that Ford in 2017.
GM has more brands. He could be comparing Ford (the brand) to Chevy (the brand). Which is reversed.
We all know Cadillac outsells Lincoln. And I would argue (and not because I work for them) that Ford has better styled cars than Chevy. Fords tend to look vaguely European, GM's recently have been looking vaguely Korean. It's sad really, I wish they didn't as I find Korean cars ugly. Dodge is the only company who still tries to design "American" if that is such a thing.
The average guy these days has a 45-50k f150 as a daily driver. A 55-60k Corvette (street price) is absolutely a regulars guys car. I don't know anyone with 180k+ Ferrari, they probably wouldnt associate with me, nor would I want to with them, but many of my neighbors have Corvettes.
And TBH, a lifted Wrangler is more likely to draw attention (including the female kind) than a Corvette.
Sports cars are not really a "thing" anymore. It's sad, but I by mine for me so it's not an issue but a lot of people used to buy them for status and that just isn't there anymore.
I adjusted my rendering to show the front compared to the spy pics and where the headlamp size and shape overlay.
So this means that the side lamp will be separate after all ?. I was wondering because on some spy pics an orange "oval" can be seen over the fender. Was not sure if it would be covered by the headlamp blister.
I represented the side signal light with a yellow oval in the approximate position as seen in the spy pic.
The headlamp shape and size must be close. Of course, there is distortion in the adjusted images but can't be too far off and artistic liberties are taken to fill in the blanks until we know more.
Love the new rendering.but I don’t think the flat top section of the headlight( that you have shaded orange) will be covered. You can see where the body panel(hood) will butt up to the other side of the orange area. Very similar to how the c7 has a feature line running threw the headlight with a similar flat area on top
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Originally Posted by firstvettesoon
Yes. I was able to superimpose it on the CAD image and estimate the size and general shape.
Based on the latest information and CAD of the headlamp assembly I have revised my rendering of the ME to include a more paint-shop "accurate" nose and Aria style side scoop. It will be interesting to see the final rendition of the actual scoop. I also revised the fender top creases to be more like the GM design video of the Chevy sports-car -concept car which happens to be s bit like a C2-C3 and done this way look fairy good and the rear side window-scoop shape which is also similar to the GM design video car and the Aria.
I was able to straighten and flatten out the CAD images and assembly them roughly enough to get a decent idea of the overall shape and proportions of the car. I was also able to superimpose the headlamp assembly in place to discover the size of the headlamp. The front-on view is a best guess for now but should be relatively close. Of course some artistic license had to be take to fill in the blanks until we know more.
I doubt whoever this person is was uploading these CAD shots to this site directly from wherever they were "stealing" them. So unless they confiscated their phone, tablet, pc at the house, etc.. he/she still has everything they got a hold of and there might be goodies that'll still trickle out.
Anyway, not a smart move for ZERV for sure
I would expect there to be something in his employment docs....even if hired years ago....about disclosing proprietary information.
He'll either end up in jail or be told that if he posts again he risks jail (and financial damages).
GM has more brands. He could be comparing Ford (the brand) to Chevy (the brand). Which is reversed.
We all know Cadillac outsells Lincoln. And I would argue (and not because I work for them) that Ford has better styled cars than Chevy. Fords tend to look vaguely European, GM's recently have been looking vaguely Korean. It's sad really, I wish they didn't as I find Korean cars ugly. Dodge is the only company who still tries to design "American" if that is such a thing.
Except he clearly makes the comparison to GM, not Chevy.
generally Ford's cars sell better and arguably their designs resonate better with the public. As much as we love Corvette, GM does not have a good track record for making pretty cars. Ex: Monte Carlo, Sunfire, Aztek...(all the Lincolns).
Then he confuses Lincoln with a GM brand rather than Ford, which further weakens his argument. Not to mention that the Sunfire and Aztek were both last produced in 2005 - 13 years ago.
01-26-2018, 04:06 PM
GM must be spitting bricks by now.
