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The result, I'm ok with C7 design cues being in a mid-engine Vette to some degree because whatever intangibles that made the C7 not a Vette, no longer matter.
I really hope it gets that pass, or that I'm right and there will be a front engine C8 later. Because to my eyes, it's not the C7 that doesn't fit into this picture...
Originally Posted by Atari Prime
So, the idea of getting a Ferrari LaFerrari for a tenth of the price sounds like a no brainer to me.
People keep talking about Lamborghini and Ferrari and McLaren, as if this is going to be in that league. It won't be. The Corvette isn't now, and the ME won't be either. It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with the sales and ownership experience. GM cannot, and IMO should not, try to play in that sandbox.
More apt comparisons will be the R8 and NSX. The R8 is facing cancellation and the NSX is overpriced, overcomplicated, and abandoned its heritage. Hopefully GM is paying very close attention to the NSXs example of what not to do.
I really hope it gets that pass, or that I'm right and there will be a front engine C8 later. Because to my eyes, it's not the C7 that doesn't fit into this picture...
People keep talking about Lamborghini and Ferrari and McLaren, as if this is going to be in that league. It won't be. The Corvette isn't now, and the ME won't be either. It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with the sales and ownership experience. GM cannot, and IMO should not, try to play in that sandbox.
More apt comparisons will be the R8 and NSX. The R8 is facing cancellation and the NSX is overpriced, overcomplicated, and abandoned its heritage. Hopefully GM is paying very close attention to the NSXs example of what not to do.
Bad comparisons with the r8 and NSX. Those cars are supper expensive even at starting MSRP. However, the base model mid engine corvette, though it will be more costly than the base C7, will be affordable. I don’t think GM is that stupid...they are not going to make this so expensive that they lose sales volume. This will be an affordable mid engine bad *** for hank...your red neck neighbor with a decent job
Last edited by Paulchristian; 01-31-2018 at 07:28 PM.
The R8 served its purpose as Audi's halo car. But despite how good it is, it cannot compete with the rest of the high end mid-engine supercar market. There were rumors of an R4 at a lower price point. Call it the mid engine bad *** for Hans...Hank's German in-law But that never happened.
GM can hopefully hit a much lower price point. But that means they will also not be competing with Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, et all.
The NSX abandoned its heritage as a light weight, simple, driver focused car, and it compounded that sin by being too expensive for its market. This I think is the bigger concern for GM. By going up market, by reducing the practicality of the car, and by going with lower displacement turbo engines, they run a very serious risk of abandoning their heritage and alienating the Corvette faithful. Same as the NSX.
Of course, all of this is moot if they do two cars. A high end mid engine car and a more traditional front engine C8. Which is what I've been saying all along.
The R8 served its purpose as Audi's halo car. But despite how good it is, it cannot compete with the rest of the high end mid-engine supercar market. There were rumors of an R4 at a lower price point. Call it the mid engine bad *** for Hans...Hank's German in-law But that never happened.
GM can hopefully hit a much lower price point. But that means they will also not be competing with Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, et all.
The NSX abandoned its heritage as a light weight, simple, driver focused car, and it compounded that sin by being too expensive for its market. This I think is the bigger concern for GM. By going up market, by reducing the practicality of the car, and by going with lower displacement turbo engines, they run a very serious risk of abandoning their heritage and alienating the Corvette faithful. Same as the NSX.
Of course, all of this is moot if they do two cars. A high end mid engine car and a more traditional front engine C8. Which is what I've been saying all along.
Camaro $$ < Corvette $$$ < ZERV $$$$
They are not trying to compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini, and McLaren in the sense I believe you getting to. From a performance standpoint, they already compete with all those brands. From material quality/ fit and finish standpoint obviously they do not (and justifiably so given the price difference)... but the C7 is significantly better than the C6 was in this regard and I believe the C8 will be even better. If GM can even marginally improved the material quality (improve the damn seats for sure) they can justify a somewhat elevated price premium over the C7, especially if it is wrapped in a rear mid engine package that is hardly distinguishable from Ferraris McLarens, and the Lamborghinis of the world....At 1/3 of the cost...
People keep talking about Lamborghini and Ferrari and McLaren, as if this is going to be in that league. It won't be. The Corvette isn't now, and the ME won't be either. It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with the sales and ownership experience. GM cannot, and IMO should not, try to play in that sandbox.
More apt comparisons will be the R8 and NSX. The R8 is facing cancellation and the NSX is overpriced, overcomplicated, and abandoned its heritage. Hopefully GM is paying very close attention to the NSXs example of what not to do.
You are right, Corvette is not in the same league as the LaFerrari. And there's no way it can be for the price. But it will get within about 85% of the performance. At 10% of the price, that's a good thing. The R8 is only temporarily leaving while Lamborghini works out a new design that Audi can place in it's line. The basic Gallardo/R8 design is ancient at this point.
Bad comparisons with the r8 and NSX. Those cars are supper expensive even at starting MSRP. However, the base model mid engine corvette, though it will be more costly than the base C7, will be affordable. I don’t think GM is that stupid...they are not going to make this so expensive that they lose sales volume. This will be an affordable mid engine bad *** for hank...your red neck neighbor with a decent job
You can get an R8 for about 50k more than a top tier Vette. That's not far off. And you must know different rednecks than I do, because I've never seen a redneck buy anything less than a 10 year old Vette...actually wait, I know one that did buy a new Vette and it got repossessed.
Last edited by Atari_Prime; 02-01-2018 at 10:26 AM.
The R8 is only temporarily leaving while Lamborghini works out a new design that Audi can place in it's line. The basic Gallardo/R8 design is ancient at this point.
The R8 was redesigned in 2015 and shares a platform with the Huracan.
That was corrected in the new ZL1 and ZR-1 with the added coolers and large air intake ducts on the nose. Overheating and heat soak are now a thing of the past for GM.
BTW firstvettesoon...I think you're doing an AMAZING job.
Oh, but the C7 ZR1 is not yet delivered and the A8 Z06 has all those problems, but is the most common high performance C7 on the road. I think it's still very much in the present for GM. No 3rd party has even tested the ZR1 yet. Even if it runs reasonably cool, the Z06 will outnumber it so much on the road it will hardly matter at all. What would matter is to offer a ZR1-like cooling pack for all Z06s retroactively.
The only way I'd trust the C8 was to flog it myself on the track before I buy it. I did this with the C7 too, but they limited me to a few laps in a Stingray in two gears...
Oh, but the C7 ZR1 is not yet delivered and the A8 Z06 has all those problems, but is the most common high performance C7 on the road. I think it's still very much in the present for GM. No 3rd party has even tested the ZR1 yet. Even if it runs reasonably cool, the Z06 will outnumber it so much on the road it will hardly matter at all. What would matter is to offer a ZR1-like cooling pack for all Z06s retroactively.
The only way I'd trust the C8 was to flog it myself on the track before I buy it. I did this with the C7 too, but they limited me to a few laps in a Stingray in two gears...
It's not uncommon for the organizer to limit your gears when you rent a performance street car for track testing. They did let me use gears 3 and 4, but the track called for 2 and 3 for the most part. My guess is that they wanted the driver to short shift to prevent mechanical overrevs.
In my opinion, having both a mid and a front engine version, where the mid engine is unaffordable to the average Corvette buyer, is a losing proposition. I'm not going to buy a second class Corvette with a front engine when a mid engine model exists. If I can't afford the mid engine Corvette, I'm out of the new Corvette market.
In my opinion, having both a mid and a front engine version, where the mid engine is unaffordable to the average Corvette buyer, is a losing proposition. I'm not going to buy a second class Corvette with a front engine when a mid engine model exists. If I can't afford the mid engine Corvette, I'm out of the new Corvette market.
Why does everyone assume that the Mid-Engine will wear a Corvette badge?
01-31-2018, 07:19 PM
But that never happened.
