BLKTA

This is interesting because there are similar CAD's and actual pics of the upcoming GT500 engine on the Mustang forum along with pics of the brakes and the camo'd car at a shop.

tbrenny33

NemesisC5

I received a number of pictures of the C6 ZR1 and the Transformer Concept Corvette from an inside source well before anything was public. Additionally spoke with another "insider" regarding logo concepts and what they termed as a "buck" for the Mid Engine we are discussing here. Obviously this was many years ago when security was not as tight as current day but nonetheless as LT1 Z51 said there are "insiders" with opportunities to capture information thus risking their jobs and possible legal action. I kept the pictures and information from discussions private with no desire to disseminate for attention. The payoff for me was the excitement of actually knowing "some" facts of exciting new vehicles and vehicle concepts. People that talk risk losing far more than they stand to gain.

LT1 Z51

Performance outsources work to Roush. That's where 99% of those leaks come from. Working there I can tell you, stuff that I know about (which isn't everything) hasn't even broken cover yet. While at GM we practically know the product plan for the next 5 years.

The Ford GT is a prime example, before it showed up at the Auto Show less than 10 people knew about it.

LT1 Z51

Because he was talking about Chrysler and GM.

Before I worked at Ford I had no idea what was going on there. When I worked on the one project on the supplier side, I didn't know anything outside of my program.

But true, when quote packs go out people know what programs exist. However, GM's nomenclature is easier to figure out than anyone (like Y2XX being the next Corvette). Chrysler too uses the same letter combos over and over (RT is Minivan, WK is Grand Cherokee). Ford constantly changes them, and they have little to no meaning (literally its a letter and 3 random numbers).

The Germans run a tight ship, no one knows what they are working on.

JMLS

Images are very real. The sheer complexity and not to mention the accuracy of those images to spy photos (exhaust tips, side fenders and body panels) are proof enough. It would take a team of engineers, each tasked with different sections, considerable time to design those parts. Not to mention another engineer tasked with drawing it all in CAD software.

This isnt the work of some dude with SolidWorks and a bunch of free time on his hand.

I dont know how GM runs ship, but often completed CAD drawings like those leaked wont be available to everyone on the team either. Its entirely possible that only a few Systems Engineers, Mechanical Engineers, Program Managers and higher ups would have access to the file directory these are ultimately stored on within their shared network. In other words, GM will probably figure out fairly quickly who leaked these.

LT1 Z51

Actually, when it comes to CAD most people who have access to a program have access to the whole car. Suppliers get restricted access if they have anything at all. But the OEM engineers have complete access. Too much effort to individually lock down parts.

There also is a reason for this access, each part needs to know about all the parts around it (for packaging) and this would create a complex amount of permissions. Easier to just give people access by body style. So anyone at GM who is working on ZERV CAD has access to the whole car.

Shaka

I work on CAD systems all the time. Don't scoff at Solid Edge or Solid Works. You can import all those files in a short time. All the design work has been done. All engineering is global now. No matter what part of the car you are working on, the engineers can see the big picture. The legacy in the CAD system, probably from Dessault, gives all kinds of solutions. This car has been in the works since 09. The computer has learned much in that time. End to end process for mechanical & shape design and tons of add ons including CFD plus Yankee ingenuity will assure a fantastic design. The systems do not even allow screen captures. These were authorized images. You lease modern CAD systems and the security is unreal.

Zymurgy

They aren't screen "captures". They are photos taken of the CAD drawings on a monitor, probably taken with a cell phone.

dcbingaman

"Dessalt" is actually Dassault which launched CATIA, (as well as Mirage and Rafael jet fighters, and Falcon biz jets). Almost everyone in the US uses Unigraphics, Pro Engineer, AutoCAD or Solidworks.

I believe both GM and Ford actually use Unigraphics (now called Siemens XM), because it has a much more advanced parametric solid-modeling capability and a better interface with Teamcenter and other CAM programs for manufacturing. Pro Engineer is specialized for machinery design and is probably used for engines as much as anything else. Pro Engineer can design complex 3D parts better than any other CAD package I know of.

Shaka

I use Siemens Solid Edge and Lotus for chassis and suspension design. Only mild steel tube space frames. Mercedes purchased Chrysler because of it's CATIA system and Jeep.

JMLS

Its possible, although with a project as tight lipped as this, I cant say I would agree with that statement. Under normal circumstances you're probably right but I feel like GM would take more caution with this one. You're also overestimated the "complexity" of write/read access to network files.

Maybe my sense of "secure" is heightened from experience, but I can say without question that systems for large engineering companies that have any sort of necessity for security have limited access file directories and a need-to-know basis. And that would be considered minimal security

JMLS

I wasnt scoffing at SolidWorks. I was scoffing at the idea of some random jamoke designing this on his own in his free time and then fooling everyone with leaked photos...especially when all things considered it probably took a team several years.

Im also not sure if you're suggesting that someone stole CAD files from GM, imported them into their own CAD software and then took a picture of their screen with their phone and then posted it here on the forum...?

LT1 Z51

They aren't using network files. So I'm not overestimating them. You are assuming a highly simplified structure. In fact no one uses share drives for any real data. All files have to go into complex versioning systems which follow corporate retention policies. Share drives are frowned upon.

CAD at automotive companies is almost EXCLUSIVLY in a server based system like Team Center (or a competitor). The CAD is therefore controlled not by network permissions, but by Team Center permissions.

Team Center (and similar programs) exclusively use groups to give permissions. Individual permissions are not managed (I don't know if they can be, it just seems they never are).

Therefore it's an extreme amount of work to deviate from the normal "way" so it's very very likely that ZERV is treated no differently in GM's systems than the Chevy Sonic.

At Ford, if you read up on the GT, you will find out it wasn't even PUT into computer systems initially, because this WAS THE ONLY WAY to keep it secret.

Shaka

Those files were generated internally and the 'leaks' were authorized.

Atari_Prime

It's only espionage if you sell it to another party or are acting on behalf of another party. Otherwise it is just a leak.

LT1 Z51

Leaks can be used by competitors, so it's treated the same inside the OEMs.

jagamajajaran

Leaked...not GM controlled.